NES Ninja gaiden fans

[67 others]

This will bring you right back.
Ninja Gaiden Fail

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[GlassesJacketShirt]

This will bring you right back.
Ninja Gaiden Fail

And people said Dark Souls was punishing.

 

[67 others]

And people said Dark Souls was punishing.

The man's expression said it all.

I still remember my first time dying against that 6-4 boss and realizing i was sent back to 6-1
Your slow realization that 6-2 took you like 2 hours to finally get by and now you finally made it to the boss and had to do it all over. Then you try it again, and again.
I was 15 years old, got the game for christmas when it was brand new and my father took away the nintendo for the week after I threw the controller against the wall a few times a few days later.

 

[Osprey]

He didn't put in any effort against the boss, as if he expected to re-spawn just before the boss and have unlimited retries. Gamers are spoiled by the forgivingness of today's games, and that includes Dark Souls.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He didn't put in any effort against the boss, as if he expected to re-spawn just before the boss and have unlimited retries. Gamers are spoiled by the forgivingness of today's games, and that includes Dark Souls.

I have no problem with that anymore as as I got older and have less and less times to play games. The game quickly goes off never to be played with again if it becomes too difficult.

 

[Osprey]

I have no problem with that anymore as as I got older and have less and less times to play games. The game quickly goes off never to be played with again if it becomes too difficult.

Yeah, I was including myself in that. I've lost patience since I was younger and even get annoyed by the checkpoint system in many modern games. I prefer a "save anywhere" system so that I can save where I want to and never have to replay any section. If I'm going to play an NES game these days, it has to be in an emulator with save states. I was just a little amused that this guy seemed to be playing it casually without such assists.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Yeah, I was including myself in that. I've lost patience since I was younger and even get annoyed by the checkpoint system in many modern games. I prefer a "save anywhere" system so that I can save where I want to and never have to replay any section. If I'm going to play an NES game these days, it has to be in an emulator with save states. I was just a little amused that this guy seemed to be playing it casually without such assists.

Same here....even checkpoints annoy me now, like you, I want the save anywhere I damn want to , even if that is 1 second before a big boss

 

[Osprey]

Same here....even checkpoints annoy me now, like you, I want the save anywhere I damn want to , even if that is 1 second before a big boss

Yes, we are save scummers and not afraid to admit it. We are not bothered by those who would try to save scum shame us.

 

[JaegerDice]

There's a difference between being difficult and being unfair.

Ninja Gaiden was an arcade game before it ended up on Nintendo. The whole design directive of the game was to milk as many quarters out of as many saps as possible. It wasnt' designed to be satisfying and fair, it was designed to screw players over. That's not good game design.

The truth is, if Ninja Gaiden were made today, it would be a mobile game with heavy microtransactions.

Gamers today aren't 'spoiled' for having games that don't actively try to screw them over, any more than children are 'spoiled' for not being beaten with sticks for misbehaving.

 

[Shareefruck]

There's a difference between being difficult and being unfair.

Ninja Gaiden was an arcade game before it ended up on Nintendo. The whole design directive of the game was to milk as many quarters out of as many saps as possible. It wasnt' designed to be satisfying and fair, it was designed to screw players over. That's not good game design.

The truth is, if Ninja Gaiden were made today, it would be a mobile game with heavy microtransactions.

Gamers today aren't 'spoiled' for having games that don't actively try to screw them over, any more than children are 'spoiled' for not being beaten with sticks for misbehaving.

There are some arcade games that I feel that way about (as much as I love Metal Slug for its mastery of animation aesthetic, it fits that to a tee), and I'm not sure if Ninja Gaiden is one of those (I'm not much of a fan, but probably), but in more general terms, I would say that I don't think that these two things need to be mutually exclusive, and there do exist really ruthlessly difficult and unforgiving credit-driven arcade games that eat quarters but are also worthwhile and satisfying in how brutal they are ("fair" is kind of subjective and ambiguous-- if something's worth it, then it's fair), and how easy it is for you to be thrown back to the beginning.

I think that ultimately, whether an unforgiving gameplay loop is a poorly designed fault or a beautifully designed strength depends mostly on how beautifully designed the mechanics themselves are. If they're air-tight and brilliant, even the most absurd demand for mastery and repetition can make a lot of sense and be a big positive.

 

[Liminal Cat]

Ninja Gaiden arcade and Ninja Gaiden NES are two completely different games.

Ninja Gaiden NES is tough but has a few things to ease your pain. It has infinite continues. Getting a Game Over sends you back to the last checkpoint and not to the beginning of the stage. Going back to 6-1 when you die against the final boss is unfortunate, but this was an unintentional design flaw.

 

[McRpro]

In my teen years I never made it past the second form of the final boss. Now I'm in my 40's and my skills have withered away like an old piece of fruit. Ninja Gaiden beat me.

 

[67 others]

There's a difference between being difficult and being unfair.

Ninja Gaiden was an arcade game before it ended up on Nintendo. The whole design directive of the game was to milk as many quarters out of as many saps as possible. It wasnt' designed to be satisfying and fair, it was designed to screw players over. That's not good game design.

The truth is, if Ninja Gaiden were made today, it would be a mobile game with heavy microtransactions.

Gamers today aren't 'spoiled' for having games that don't actively try to screw them over, any more than children are 'spoiled' for not being beaten with sticks for misbehaving.

It wasn't "unfair", it was how games were made back then with the limited space of cartridges. Designers had to artificially extend gameplay by making the games difficult because they didn't have the same capacity to make really long games with lots of graphics. And folks rented to test before purchase. Do you think my dad would drop $50 on a game we could beat and get bored with within a few days? The game takes an hour to beat at most once your muscle memory and knowledge of Boss patterns and level kinks is built up. Part of the fun was the challenge and getting there. Once you did it, you felt a huge surge of adren like you just scored a tournament winning goal in a hockey game.

 

[Osprey]

It wasn't "unfair", it was how games were made back then with the limited space of cartridges. Designers had to artificially extend gameplay by making the games difficult because they didn't have the same capacity to make really long games with lots of graphics. And folks rented to test before purchase. Do you think my dad would drop $50 on a game we could beat and get bored with within a few days? The game takes an hour to beat at most once your muscle memory and knowledge of Boss patterns and level kinks is built up. Part of the fun was the challenge and getting there. Once you did it, you felt a huge surge of adren like you just scored a tournament winning goal in a hockey game.

Similarly, it's possible to beat Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! in as little as 15 minutes, but it takes dozens and dozens of hours to get to that point or even beat it at all. It took me months, and when I finally knocked out Mike Tyson for the first time, it was probably the best feeling that I've ever had playing video games.

 

[Shareefruck]

Blegh. There's that "game's price/value being justified by number of hours spent" thing again that I'll never agree with. If that length duration is required in order to create that ultra satisfying feeling at the end (which I do relate to), that should probably be the only real argument in favor of it holding up or still being thought of as a good game, as far as I'm concerned, not hitting some imaginary duration thought of as value, nor downplaying possible flaws (which I don't think they necessarily are) due to it being a sign of the times/limitations of technology.

If all games at the time did something that is truly bad game design in hindsight (which I would hope isn't the case), then all games from back then should probably be considered bad games now, IMO. Or it was just valid game design all along and we've simply lost something still viable and underappreciated.

That would be my view on it, anyways.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

One of my all-time favorite gaming moments was the first, and only, time I beat Ninja Gaiden on a real NES. I never did it as a kid (I could reliably get to 6-2 but never past that) and finally did it as an adult one summer. It was actually a bit of an emotional experience...beating a game that you couldn't beat as a kid is a great f***ing feeling. Sometimes, retro games were supposed to be hard. You learn as you play, none of that hold-your-hand-and-spoon-feed-your-worthless-ass BS, you sack up and learn to play how it was meant to be played because real games were real hard just like real life.

However, there are more than a handful of games that were overly difficult for the wrong reasons. Battletoads on the NES, for example, is one of the most overrated retro games of all time. It looked and sounded brilliantly for a NES game but it has the most irregular difficulty curve of any game I have ever played, and one of the levels can't really be beaten without either a CRT TV or digital trickery. That's not good game design. Ghosts & Goblins on the NES is another example of an extremely hard game that is hard for the wrong reasons, while it's SNES sequel is also extraordinarily hard but for the right reasons and is a FAR more playable game. Another super hard game that is well-designed on the NES is Little Nemo: Dream Master. You think it's going to be cute given the subject matter and asthetic...until you get your asshole served to you on a platter.

However, I'm going to echo @The Crypto Guy 's comment above: as adults, we really don't have a lot of free time anymore. As a working parent of a young child, I don't have time to learn how to beat Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom (much harder than the first game AND IT HAS LIMITED CONTINUES TECMO WHAT THE ACTUAL f*** WERE YOU THINKING?!?) right now. When we were little, we worked our way through these games after our homework or whatever, you didn't have nearly as many responsibilities back then. Now? Forget it, I'll play a video game to de-stress and I really am not even remotely in the mood to get ass-raped over and over again by a rocket in Volkmire's Inferno in Battletoads.

EDIT: as I typed this, I got the urge to dig out the Super Nintendo. Did so. Plugged in Link to the Past. Is it overly hard? No. Is it well-designed? Spectacularly. Playing it again for the millionth time, this game is still fun even today. THAT'S good game design.

 

[Osprey]

However, there are more than a handful of games that were overly difficult for the wrong reasons. Battletoads on the NES, for example, is one of the most overrated retro games of all time. It looked and sounded brilliantly for a NES game but it has the most irregular difficulty curve of any game I have ever played, and one of the levels can't really be beaten without either a CRT TV or digital trickery. That's not good game design. Ghosts & Goblins on the NES is another example of an extremely hard game that is hard for the wrong reasons, while it's SNES sequel is also extraordinarily hard but for the right reasons and is a FAR more playable game. Another super hard game that is well-designed on the NES is Little Nemo: Dream Master. You think it's going to be cute given the subject matter and asthetic...until you get your asshole served to you on a platter.

I was going to mention Ghosts & Goblins if you didn't. It's very hard to play through once, but it's doable. I did it a few times, whereas I never beat Ninja Gaiden. The only ridiculous and unfair part was that you had to do it all a second time on a higher difficulty to truly "beat" it. I never made it very far on the second run, probably because I was too angry at the game to concentrate.

 

[67 others]

One of my all-time favorite gaming moments was the first, and only, time I beat Ninja Gaiden on a real NES. I never did it as a kid (I could reliably get to 6-2 but never past that) and finally did it as an adult one summer. It was actually a bit of an emotional experience...beating a game that you couldn't beat as a kid is a great f***ing feeling. Sometimes, retro games were supposed to be hard. You learn as you play, none of that hold-your-hand-and-spoon-feed-your-worthless-ass BS, you sack up and learn to play how it was meant to be played because real games were real hard just like real life.

However, there are more than a handful of games that were overly difficult for the wrong reasons. Battletoads on the NES, for example, is one of the most overrated retro games of all time. It looked and sounded brilliantly for a NES game but it has the most irregular difficulty curve of any game I have ever played, and one of the levels can't really be beaten without either a CRT TV or digital trickery. That's not good game design. Ghosts & Goblins on the NES is another example of an extremely hard game that is hard for the wrong reasons, while it's SNES sequel is also extraordinarily hard but for the right reasons and is a FAR more playable game. Another super hard game that is well-designed on the NES is Little Nemo: Dream Master. You think it's going to be cute given the subject matter and asthetic...until you get your asshole served to you on a platter.

However, I'm going to echo @The Crypto Guy 's comment above: as adults, we really don't have a lot of free time anymore. As a working parent of a young child, I don't have time to learn how to beat Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom (much harder than the first game AND IT HAS LIMITED CONTINUES TECMO WHAT THE ACTUAL f*** WERE YOU THINKING?!?) right now. When we were little, we worked our way through these games after our homework or whatever, you didn't have nearly as many responsibilities back then. Now? Forget it, I'll play a video game to de-stress and I really am not even remotely in the mood to get ass-raped over and over again by a rocket in Volkmire's Inferno in Battletoads.

EDIT: as I typed this, I got the urge to dig out the Super Nintendo. Did so. Plugged in Link to the Past. Is it overly hard? No. Is it well-designed? Spectacularly. Playing it again for the millionth time, this game is still fun even today. THAT'S good game design.

Battletoads I played for years and didn't beat until i was 22. but not sure what CRT TV thing you are talking about. Most people quit Battletoads on the turbo Tunnel, but i found that level easy after a few tries. Terra Tubes on the other hand....F that level.

Ninja Gaiden 3.....wasn't that bad if you liked platforming type games. Enemies not respawning like they did continuously in 1 and 2 is a huge change. Now the levels focus were more on environmental hazards, Wind, spikes, moving platforms, staying ahead of the rising lava and memorization(More like Battletoads actually lol). The bosses were super easy in 3 and you got that ridiculous Super Sword. it was harder than 2, but 2 was broken easy because of the shadow duplicates ability.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I was going to mention Ghosts & Goblins if you didn't. It's very hard to play through once, but it's doable. I did it a few times, whereas I never beat Ninja Gaiden. The only ridiculous and unfair part was that you had to do it all a second time on a higher difficulty to truly "beat" it. I never made it very far on the second run, probably because I was too angry at the game to concentrate.

I hate G&G on NES. Absolutely hate it. The last two levels are just broken and no one can convince me otherwise; not being able to kill some enemies with the cross is just bullshit. Ninja Gaiden is hard and takes a lot of practice, but it's doable. It doesn't get really hard until close to the end; it's just that Act VI of Ninja Gaiden is BRUTAL.

You have to play through Super Ghouls & Ghosts twice as well. The difference is that game went through a lot more testing before release, and it shows.

Either way, like I said before, I am a retro gamer at heart. But I no longer have time to learn and play through games that are designed to punish you, whether I love those games or not.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Battletoads I played for years and didn't beat until i was 22. but not sure what CRT TV thing you are talking about. Most people quit Battletoads on the turbo Tunnel, but i found that level easy after a few tries. Terra Tubes on the other hand....F that level.

Ninja Gaiden 3.....wasn't that bad if you liked platforming type games. Enemies not respawning like they did continuously in 1 and 2 is a huge change. Now the levels focus were more on environmental hazards, Wind, spikes, moving platforms, staying ahead of the rising lava and memorization(More like Battletoads actually lol). The bosses were super easy in 3 and you got that ridiculous Super Sword. it was harder than 2, but 2 was broken easy because of the shadow duplicates ability.

Oh the Terra Tubes is the hardest non-broken level in Battletoads BY FAR. Anyone that says otherwise is simply wrong. Anyone that's played that game enough knows how insane that level is.

II is my pick for the best of the Ninja Gaiden NES games (my favorite is by far the first one, the only one I owned growing up.) However, I think calling it "broken easy" is a little insulting. It's still hard, it's just the easiest of the 3. I have no problem with you being better at retro games than I am, but the word "easy" should be reserved for games that actually are easy, not games that are hard but that you happen to be very good at. I can beat Super C on NES without taking a hit or using a single power-up, but I'm not under any illusion I'm beating a hard game because the difficulty in that one is way dumbed-down compared to the original.

 

[67 others]

Oh the Terra Tubes is the hardest non-broken level in Battletoads BY FAR. Anyone that says otherwise is simply wrong. Anyone that's played that game enough knows how insane that level is.

II is my pick for the best of the Ninja Gaiden NES games (my favorite is by far the first one, the only one I owned growing up.) However, I think calling it "broken easy" is a little insulting. It's still hard, it's just the easiest of the 3. I have no problem with you being better at retro games than I am, but the word "easy" should be reserved for games that actually are easy, not games that are hard but that you happen to be very good at. I can beat Super C on NES without taking a hit or using a single power-up, but I'm not under any illusion I'm beating a hard game because the difficulty in that one is way dumbed-down compared to the original.

k ill rephrase. Ninja gaiden 2 was the Mega Man 2/Ducktales of that trilogy. it was just easier to abuse that shadow duplicate trick and the controls were smoother. near the same, but smoother. Less accidentally grabbing the wall when you didn't mean to, etc mostly because you could climb up and down any wall. And there is a spot where you can farm unlimited lives.
On the difficulty scale, 1 and 3 are both like 9 out of 10. Part 2 was closer to a 7 out of 10 just because of mechanics abuse ability. it was more moderate I guess.

Mega man 1 is a hard game, not NG hard, but difficult.......unless you know the pause trick. the pause glitch breaks MM1 into a fairly moderate difficulty game. Same thing applies to NG2. Knowing how to abuse shadow duplicates meant you could clear entire screens of enemies pretty easily, or at least, prevent some of the surrounding that was prevalent in 1 because of respawn.

 

[67 others]

I hate G&G on NES. Absolutely hate it. The last two levels are just broken and no one can convince me otherwise; not being able to kill some enemies with the cross is just bullshit. Ninja Gaiden is hard and takes a lot of practice, but it's doable. It doesn't get really hard until close to the end; it's just that Act VI of Ninja Gaiden is BRUTAL.

You have to play through Super Ghouls & Ghosts twice as well. The difference is that game went through a lot more testing before release, and it shows.

Either way, like I said before, I am a retro gamer at heart. But I no longer have time to learn and play through games that are designed to punish you, whether I love those games or not.

You know what game was really hard back before the days of Walkthrough's?

Legend of Zelda second quest. lol.

That game seems to be balanced, fair. Difficult, but fair. but second quest.....I am pretty sure the game designers were told to take their gloves off and let their inner malice shine for second quest.

I could beast Adventures of link when I was younger, no walkthrough. I hated Fokkas in the great palace a LOT, but it was doable. Zelda 1 Second quest was a different animal. how the hell was I supposed to find Dungeon 8? it was Natural to bomb every wall you could reach and burn every bush. Took years to find stuff sometimes. but this one?

Who thinks "ill bomb every wall I need to raft to reach?"

And god damn the invisible walls you can't bomb in dungeons. You need to press on them for a few seconds to pass through. nobody tells you this.l you need to accidentally figure it out lol

 

[McRpro]

You know what game was really hard back before the days of Walkthrough's?

Legend of Zelda second quest. lol.

That game seems to be balanced, fair. Difficult, but fair. but second quest.....I am pretty sure the game designers were told to take their gloves off and let their inner malice shine for second quest.

I could beast Adventures of link when I was younger, no walkthrough. I hated Fokkas in the great palace a LOT, but it was doable. Zelda 1 Second quest was a different animal. how the hell was I supposed to find Dungeon 8? it was Natural to bomb every wall you could reach and burn every bush. Took years to find stuff sometimes. but this one?

Who thinks "ill bomb every wall I need to raft to reach?"

And god damn the invisible walls you can't bomb in dungeons. You need to press on them for a few seconds to pass through. nobody tells you this.l you need to accidentally figure it out lol

I never did finish Zelda 1's second quest. Those damn red and blue sparks that take away(and give back) your sword is what did me in...because I played on a black and white TV. I didn't realize what was going on when sometimes they'd hit me and I'd lose my sword until I visited a fairy on the overworld map. I found out a couple years later what the problem was but never went back to finish it.

 

[Raging Bull]

I only ever beat it once, and I did it the "cheesy" way. Make it all the way to the boss, beat the first form, die on the second, start back up at 6-1. Repeat, beat second form, and third form is easy.

 

[67 others]

Oh the Terra Tubes is the hardest non-broken level in Battletoads BY FAR. Anyone that says otherwise is simply wrong. Anyone that's played that game enough knows how insane that level is.

II is my pick for the best of the Ninja Gaiden NES games (my favorite is by far the first one, the only one I owned growing up.) However, I think calling it "broken easy" is a little insulting. It's still hard, it's just the easiest of the 3. I have no problem with you being better at retro games than I am, but the word "easy" should be reserved for games that actually are easy, not games that are hard but that you happen to be very good at. I can beat Super C on NES without taking a hit or using a single power-up, but I'm not under any illusion I'm beating a hard game because the difficulty in that one is way dumbed-down compared to the original.

I just found something really gross. This guy does a "pacifist" run of NG. Literally no using sword or abilities allowed except for bosses.