Need the complete list of 2C's

[Paul4587]

For the Ducks we have two. Getzlaf is a great 2C but isn’t movable. Henrique is pretty serviceable and could be bad for the right price although his contract isn’t great.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

lol you can maybe sell me on Turris, but not for Risto. Even with an unlikely return to form, he’s getting paid 6 million until he’s 34 and is never living up to that contract. Come on man, you’re not getting a dman playing 23 minutes a night making 5 mil for that.

That's what i mean, like i said it's a deal that im sure many Sabres fans wouldn't be happy about at first glance but it's not the first time a deal like this happens in these circumstances. It's not a secret Risto wants out.

Obviously the Preds would likely add something, pick or the like to make up for Turris' poor form.

But you have to understand that while Risto may play big minutes for the Sabres, it only matters a lot if the team acquiring him thinks he will do the same for them. Nobody pays the price for a 23 minute defenseman if they think he'll play 19 minutes per game. And that's the biggest issue for Buffalo getting the market value they think they should. Clearly no one up to this point have been sold that Risto is that guy for them otherwise we'd already seen a deal happen.

For instance in this trade, the Preds know Turris would be the Sabres 2C. At the same time Risto is competing for the #4 spot with Fabbro on the back-end. There's no reason for Poile to give in and treat Turris as a pure cap dump here. He knows Turris would be given a great chance and as a result, be valuable for Buffalo.

I think it would work out for both players to be honest. Obviously it's not ideal, and if there's something better out there you do it instead. But i'd be shocked if the Sabres got solid value back for RR simply because teams aren't comfortable with him as one of the top 2 defensemen and thus they won't pay like it. And #4 dmen don't tend to hold that much market value in the summer whether that's fair or not.

If you want the best deal for RR, you hold on to him and trade him at the TDL with salary retained while he still has 1 extra year left. Value of depth go up later on in the season and that extra year is also nice, and a lower cap hit coincides with his role on that new team.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

That's what i mean, like i said it's a deal that im sure many Sabres fans wouldn't be happy about at first glance but it's not the first time a deal like this happens in these circumstances. It's not a secret Risto wants out.

Obviously the Preds would likely add something, pick or the like to make up for Turris' poor form.

But you have to understand that while Risto may play big minutes for the Sabres, it only matters a lot if the team acquiring him thinks he will do the same for them. Nobody pays the price for a 23 minute defenseman if they think he'll play 19 minutes per game. And that's the biggest issue for Buffalo getting the market value they think they should. Clearly no one up to this point have been sold that Risto is that guy for them otherwise we'd already seen a deal happen.

For instance in this trade, the Preds know Turris would be the Sabres 2C. At the same time Risto is competing for the #4 spot with Fabbro on the back-end. There's no reason for Poile to give in and treat Turris as a pure cap dump here. He knows Turris would be given a great chance and as a result, be valuable for Buffalo.

I think it would work out for both players to be honest. Obviously it's not ideal, and if there's something better out there you do it instead. But i'd be shocked if the Sabres got solid value back for RR simply because teams aren't comfortable with him as one of the top 2 defensemen and thus they won't pay like it. And #4 dmen don't tend to hold that much market value in the summer whether that's fair or not.

If you want the best deal for RR, you hold on to him and trade him at the TDL with salary retained while he still has 1 extra year left. Value of depth go up later on in the season and that extra year is also nice, and a lower cap hit coincides with his role on that new team.

It makes no sense to want rid of Risto though, that’s the basic problem here. I know some fans get silly, but from a team perspective he’s one of the few pieces I wouldn’t wanna move. As to wanting a trade- he said something like “I want to win so if Buffalo doesn’t want to win maybe I move on”- somethin like that, one time. If it ever comes to demanding a trade that’s something different, but that happened awhile back and he’s seemed fine since.

So no, unless you throw in some great prospects or picks or somethin, I don’t think Buffalo should be looking to trade 2 years at 5.4 mil to a young useful defenseman.. for 4 years at 6 mil to a 30 year old already declining forward.

Actually, honestly- dress it up as you like, but that’s the kinda contract you gotta add to in order to unload imo. Being a C adds a bit of value, but otherwise he’s pretty much Okposo level, and no one wants Okposo’s contract.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah, I don't think realistically we can ask for anything in exchange for Turris. I mean, if we got a lesser bottom-pair D that you wanted to dump off, that'd be a bonus. Like last season when we were wondering about Bogosian (but it turned out he was too broken anyway). An expiring deal or a lesser player would be fine, no need to reach for Ristolainen.

End of the day, I have every confidence that Turris is a bona fide NHL #2C, and worth his $6M salary... contingent on a team being willing to actually lock him into that spot in their lineup and give him the icetime, PP, and a little talent on his wings. He would have scored at the same or better pace for us as Duchene and Johansen, if he was used the same way. But he's also utterly useless in any other role, zero versatility.

So anyway, Turris is still surplus to us, and given how injuries and utilization have hampered his past two seasons, I don't expect any return for him. If we ended up getting a 5th round pick even, that'd still work out for us.

Although the other option would be to trade Johansen instead if we could get a better return for him. That's where I'd consider asking for something like Ristolainen. I'm confident that if we traded Johansen we'd easily replace his offense by reinstating Turris in his spot. We lose a little on the physical side, but if we get the same production and a top-4 D, it's easily worthwhile.

I think it would be less risky and a better bargain for a team like Buffalo to just go with Turris, however. He's better than you think, and should cost almost nothing to acquire.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Yeah, I don't think realistically we can ask for anything in exchange for Turris. I mean, if we got a lesser bottom-pair D that you wanted to dump off, that'd be a bonus. Like last season when we were wondering about Bogosian (but it turned out he was too broken anyway). An expiring deal or a lesser player would be fine, no need to reach for Ristolainen.

End of the day, I have every confidence that Turris is a bona fide NHL #2C, and worth his $6M salary... contingent on a team being willing to actually lock him into that spot in their lineup and give him the icetime, PP, and a little talent on his wings. He would have scored at the same or better pace for us as Duchene and Johansen, if he was used the same way. But he's also utterly useless in any other role, zero versatility.

So anyway, Turris is still surplus to us, and given how injuries and utilization have hampered his past two seasons, I don't expect any return for him. If we ended up getting a 5th round pick even, that'd still work out for us.

Although the other option would be to trade Johansen instead if we could get a better return for him. That's where I'd consider asking for something like Ristolainen. I'm confident that if we traded Johansen we'd easily replace his offense by reinstating Turris in his spot. We lose a little on the physical side, but if we get the same production and a top-4 D, it's easily worthwhile.

I think it would be less risky and a better bargain for a team like Buffalo to just go with Turris, however. He's better than you think, and should cost almost nothing to acquire.

Depends what the Preds plan to do with their cap space. If Turris is standing in the way of something that makes the team better then yeah 100% of the value is in the cap space.

But if it’s not absolutely necessary to move him and the other team has any interest then it’s bad asset management to just throw hands up in the air and say take him if you want. There’s enough of a track record to sell the positives. And he had more pts than Granlund or Arvidsson this past season, which just tells the story how out of sync the skilled forwards have been. Can always make the "not a good fit, but the player is still fine" argument.

It makes no sense to want rid of Risto though, that’s the basic problem here. I know some fans get silly, but from a team perspective he’s one of the few pieces I wouldn’t wanna move. As to wanting a trade- he said something like “I want to win so if Buffalo doesn’t want to win maybe I move on”- somethin like that, one time. If it ever comes to demanding a trade that’s something different, but that happened awhile back and he’s seemed fine since.

So no, unless you throw in some great prospects or picks or somethin, I don’t think Buffalo should be looking to trade 2 years at 5.4 mil to a young useful defenseman.. for 4 years at 6 mil to a 30 year old already declining forward.

Actually, honestly- dress it up as you like, but that’s the kinda contract you gotta add to in order to unload imo. Being a C adds a bit of value, but otherwise he’s pretty much Okposo level, and no one wants Okposo’s contract.

I don’t think Risto’s age adds any particular value. It’s more about the 2 years he’s under contract. He’ll likely explore FA as for him it’s going to be a nice change to pick where you’re going for once.

Turris is nowhere near Okposo level. Okposo is done as a top 6 forward. Like the Preds fan above me mentioned, Turris is not.

But yeah, i think something like

Turris 1M retained (@5M)
2nd round pick (NJD - high 2nd)

Is not a bad offer to work with.

Sabres could then use that NJD 2nd round pick combined with another pick to trade for a winger like Killorn for example. Classic 2nd + 3rd trade that we've seen over the past few years.

Suddenly you’re looking at 3 good lines.

And Montour, Jokiharju and Miller still on the right side D.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Depends what the Preds plan to do with their cap space. If Turris is standing in the way of something that makes the team better then yeah 100% of the value is in the cap space.

But if it’s not absolutely necessary to move him and the other team has any interest then it’s bad asset management to just throw hands up in the air and say take him if you want. There’s enough of a track record to sell the positives. And he had more pts than Granlund or Arvidsson this past season, which just tells the story how out of sync the skilled forwards have been. Can always make the "not a good fit, but the player is still fine" argument.

I mean, he's already standing in the way of being able to re-sign Granlund and Smith. Of course, we have no idea if either Granlund or Smith are even interested in re-signing with us. But if they did have interest, we simply would not be able to afford them both. And as wingers, they are actually better fits to our needs and more valuable players to us than Turris as the odd-man-out-center is.

Just as one example.

 

[John Johnson]

Something around one of Cozens, Reinhart, or a 1st round pick.

That's all you would want for Couture? I feel like he could fetch a bit more perhaps.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That's all you would want for Couture? I feel like he could fetch a bit more perhaps.

Take a look at his contract and you will see why.

 

[Mike Liut]

Blues centers

ROR
Schenn
Thomas
Bozak
Barbashev
Sunqvist

only Bozak is available

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Depends what the Preds plan to do with their cap space. If Turris is standing in the way of something that makes the team better then yeah 100% of the value is in the cap space.

But if it’s not absolutely necessary to move him and the other team has any interest then it’s bad asset management to just throw hands up in the air and say take him if you want. There’s enough of a track record to sell the positives. And he had more pts than Granlund or Arvidsson this past season, which just tells the story how out of sync the skilled forwards have been. Can always make the "not a good fit, but the player is still fine" argument.


I don’t think Risto’s age adds any particular value. It’s more about the 2 years he’s under contract. He’ll likely explore FA as for him it’s going to be a nice change to pick where you’re going for once.

Turris is nowhere near Okposo level. Okposo is done as a top 6 forward. Like the Preds fan above me mentioned, Turris is not.

But yeah, i think something like

Turris 1M retained (@5M)
2nd round pick (NJD - high 2nd)

Is not a bad offer to work with.

Sabres could then use that NJD 2nd round pick combined with another pick to trade for a winger like Killorn for example. Classic 2nd + 3rd trade that we've seen over the past few years.

Suddenly you’re looking at 3 good lines.

And Montour, Jokiharju and Miller still on the right side D.

Turris has outscored Okposo by 6 points over the past two seasons- Turris missed more time, but Okposo sees less ice time per game. Okposo is older. His contract expires next year I believe. And he’s still unmovable. So Turris at 30 with 4 years left- once again, no, I don’t believe you’ll be moving that for anything of value. And that’s where Risto’s age comes in, because ya, it’s 2 years of a guy entering his prime. In what world would it make sense to trade that for a guy trending downwards entering the period where forwards often fall off a cliff? That contract is a millstone, I’m not Botts, not gonna fall for it.

 

[Samsquanch]

Yeah, I don't think realistically we can ask for anything in exchange for Turris. I mean, if we got a lesser bottom-pair D that you wanted to dump off, that'd be a bonus. Like last season when we were wondering about Bogosian (but it turned out he was too broken anyway). An expiring deal or a lesser player would be fine, no need to reach for Ristolainen.

End of the day, I have every confidence that Turris is a bona fide NHL #2C, and worth his $6M salary... contingent on a team being willing to actually lock him into that spot in their lineup and give him the icetime, PP, and a little talent on his wings. He would have scored at the same or better pace for us as Duchene and Johansen, if he was used the same way. But he's also utterly useless in any other role, zero versatility.

So anyway, Turris is still surplus to us, and given how injuries and utilization have hampered his past two seasons, I don't expect any return for him. If we ended up getting a 5th round pick even, that'd still work out for us.

Although the other option would be to trade Johansen instead if we could get a better return for him. That's where I'd consider asking for something like Ristolainen. I'm confident that if we traded Johansen we'd easily replace his offense by reinstating Turris in his spot. We lose a little on the physical side, but if we get the same production and a top-4 D, it's easily worthwhile.

I think it would be less risky and a better bargain for a team like Buffalo to just go with Turris, however. He's better than you think, and should cost almost nothing to acquire.

That is a massive vote of confidence for Turris.

As a Sens fan, he unfortunate truth is that hes prone to disappearing for huge stretches of time, and struggles in high intensity and physical games (ie playoffs). Its easy for opponents to target him and take him off of his game.

And I think you would be in for disappointment if you think he would easily replace R-Jo's offense. That's not going to happen.

 

[majormajor]

That is a massive vote of confidence for Turris.

As a Sens fan, he unfortunate truth is that hes prone to disappearing for huge stretches of time, and struggles in high intensity and physical games (ie playoffs). Its easy for opponents to target him and take him off of his game.

Sabres in the playoffs? They'd consider it a win just getting there.

And I think you would be in for disappointment if you think he would easily replace R-Jo's offense. That's not going to happen.

Did you not notice how bad Johansen just was? Turris had better scoring rates PP and evens this year, and seems to have a semblance of a pulse.

I'm not suggesting anyone trade for Turris, just saying Johansen's shoes might not be the hardest to fill.

 

[member 300185]

The Sabres need a real 2C desperately and we have assets to acquire one. Who are solid 2C's in this league and 3C's who on a less deep team could play the role well? Not looking for young prospects, guys who have a few years in the league up to vets - prefer a guy in his prime but if the supply is small and asking prices exorbitant then an older guy with 2-3 effective years left would be ok. If only there were a GM or owner out there who would trade an elite 2C for a sack of misfits ....... oh ...... well I can't wait for Botterill to get a new job.

The dream would be a Cirelli, Horvat, Monahan but probably can't pull it off without giving up players that would just put us back in the same place with a gaping hole somewhere on the roster.

Leafs will give you Nylander for Risto and a 2nd.

Technically, Tavares is our 2c but Eichel would be coming back.

 

[Samsquanch]

Sabres in the playoffs? They'd consider it a win just getting there.



Did you not notice how bad Johansen just was? Turris had better scoring rates PP and evens this year, and seems to have a semblance of a pulse.

I'm not suggesting anyone trade for Turris, just saying Johansen's shoes might not be the hardest to fill.

I'm not advocating for R-Jo, hes a mediocre player at this point in time, and might not even be a real top 6 center anymore.

And I thought your post was first saying that you would be open to trading him (because Turris will easily replace his offense- which is where I came in).

But neither is Turris imo. And while this was RJo's worst year statistically in NSH yet, Turris has bad seasons sprinkled throughout his resume, and is know to lay an egg every so often. And if were betting on who's going to post better numbers, even if we could magically put them in the same scenario, you have to pick the guy who's done it every season already....

You might be okay with Turris as your #2C if Duchene plays like he did in year 2 on the Sens. But hes not as good as RJO offensively. Never has or will be.

 

[majormajor]

I'm not advocating for R-Jo, hes a mediocre player at this point in time, and might not even be a real top 6 center anymore.

And I thought your post was first saying that you would be open to trading him (because Turris will easily replace his offense- which is where I came in).

But neither is Turris imo. And while this was RJo's worst year statistically in NSH yet, Turris has bad seasons sprinkled throughout his resume, and is know to lay an egg every so often. And if were betting on who's going to post better numbers, even if we could magically put them in the same scenario, you have to pick the guy who's done it every season already....

You might be okay with Turris as your #2C if Duchene plays like he did in year 2 on the Sens. But hes not as good as RJO offensively. Never has or will be.

I'm not the poster you were first replying to. I do think Johansen has some peculiar effort issues, it's hard to say if it was an off year or if he's on a downward trajectory.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

That is a massive vote of confidence for Turris.

As a Sens fan, he unfortunate truth is that hes prone to disappearing for huge stretches of time, and struggles in high intensity and physical games (ie playoffs). Its easy for opponents to target him and take him off of his game.

And I think you would be in for disappointment if you think he would easily replace R-Jo's offense. That's not going to happen.

majormajor already covered what I would have said anyway. Matching Johansen's offense is no huge hurdle. Turris can score at a 50+ point pace if you play him 18 minutes a game, give him PP time, give him good wingers. The best wingers he's ever had for any extended stretch with us were Fiala and Smith in his first season here. They're not Forsberg and Arvidsson like Johansen gets. So yeah, I don't doubt that Turris can outscore Johansen. Whatever Johansen was when we first traded for him, that's not the same guy we have today. Although for sure, we do hope he can bounce back. But whereas Turris looks basically the same as he did in his first season, Johansen just seems more sluggish and apathetic than he did in previous seasons. So it's worrisome.

But your problem when you play Turris that much is that he doesn't exactly do anything else but get those soft points. He can hold down the spot in the lineup and provide adequate production to justify his role and salary if you essentially forcefeed the opportunity to him. But I question whether that makes your team any better, really. He's not a player I'd actually WANT in that spot. When we got him, we had NOTHING else, we were a little desperate. But you ultimately want your team to get better and outgrow having him in that spot. We thought we had done that by signing Duchene. That hasn't exactly proceeded as planned either.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Turris and don't want him on my team. But I don't deny that he can produce at a decent #2C level offensively if he's really plugged into that role and allowed to stay there. Very very few teams are desperate enough to make that unqualified commitment to him, however. We were when we traded for him. Maybe Buffalo would be now --- and he'd be a lot cheaper for them to acquire now than he was for us. Nobody actively WANTS Kyle Turris. But the cost/benefit tradeoff vs. other options might still make him worthwhile in the right situation.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It will never happen but that won't stop me from fantasizing about trading Logan Couture to Buffalo.

it would be so cool to see Couture play in Buffalo. I’d be willing to give a haul just to see that happen

 

[b in vancouver]

Maybe a bit of a hot take, but I could see David Krejci being available, depending on how ready Jack Studnicka is. With Coyle getting a raise next season and the flat cap, I could see Krejci being moved as a possibility (1 year left @ 7.25 M, M-NTC) to fit in Krug's extension. He's still quite capable as a 2C imo. Still plays at a 55-60 point pace without having the luxury of Marchand/Pastrnak on his wings. Then Boston would go Bergeron/Coyle/Studnicka/Kuraly down the middle.

So much of the Bruins offseason depends on how the playoffs go. If the Bruins win it all, having Krejci and Chara off the team next season seems entirely possible to me...

And then you suddenly have all this money.

Do you sign Krug... or do you go offersheet Barzal or something more crazy.

Krejci has earned the right to finish out his contract in Boston. Somehow he still gets disrespected. The guy has been a 1a/1b/2c on one of the best teams for 15 years and played over a 1000 games. It's not a video game. The only way he's traded is if he asks or if they play next season and The Bruins are way out of it at the deadline.

 

[wintersej]

Krejci has earned the right to finish out his contract in Boston. Somehow he still gets disrespected. The guy has been a 1a/1b/2c on one of the best teams for 15 years and played over a 1000 games. It's not a video game. The only way he's traded is if he asks or if they play next season and The Bruins are way out of it at the deadline.

I mean probably, yes. But, the Bruins did meet with Tavares and the only way that would have worked was if Krejci was sent packing... so anything is possible.

 

[Conbon]

If Flames are rebuilding/retooling which they really should be, Backlund is on the table.