Confirmed with Link: Ned to DET for Bernier’s rights and a 3rd

[Nikishin Go Boom]

It comes down to Ned wanted to be a starter and inexperienced starter money. Management team wasn’t ready to commit to that. If Ned would have taken a show me deal then I think he would have stayed. Between his inconsistent AHL and NHL numbers, the team didn’t feel they could say he was a starter on a championship aspiring team.

i have little doubt it has anything to do with one soft goal but whole body of wirk.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

It comes down to Ned wanted to be a starter and inexperienced starter money. Management team wasn’t ready to commit to that. If Ned would have taken a show me deal then I think he would have stayed. Between his inconsistent AHL and NHL numbers, the team didn’t feel they could say he was a starter on a championship aspiring team.

i have little doubt it has anything to do with one soft goal but whole body of wirk.

He signed a 2-year, $3 million AAV deal thirty minutes after he was traded. Sounds like he was more than willing to sign a "show me deal."

 

[hblueridgegal]

Are we seriously pursuing anyone that has actually won anything? Who has a champion's pedigree? Survived the test?

I find it interesting that so many of the Checkers have hit the road or been sent packing when they actually accomplished their goal.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

He signed a 2-year, $3 million AAV deal thirty minutes after he was traded. Sounds like he was more than willing to sign a "show me deal."

Show me is like a 1 year 1.5 million dollar deal. Canes pay their starter(s) 3 million

 

[emptyNedder]

It comes down to Ned wanted to be a starter and inexperienced starter money. Management team wasn’t ready to commit to that. If Ned would have taken a show me deal then I think he would have stayed. Between his inconsistent AHL and NHL numbers, the team didn’t feel they could say he was a starter on a championship aspiring team.

i have little doubt it has anything to do with one soft goal but whole body of wirk.

I find it interesting that so many of the Checkers have hit the road or been sent packing when they actually accomplished their goal.

The "inconsistent" AHL numbers is way off. Ned won more games in the AHL than any other goalie during his time in the league. His sv% was <.910 his first and last season, but he was still winning at an impressive rate, which indicates he would give up goals when it was 5-2, but would lock the opposition down if it was 3-2. The fixation with sv% is akin to saying that Michael Grabner was a better player than Derrick Brassard because Grabner averaged 23 goals per 82 games over his career while Brassard only averaged 18.

Ned has won games at every level with amazing consistency.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Show me is like a 1 year 1.5 million dollar deal. Canes pay their starter(s) 3 million

What the Canes pay is irrelevant, because we know Dundon's a bit of a hardass in that regard. Legitimate #1 starters get $4-6 (or more), and when you're looking for someone who MIGHT become your legitimate #1, you sign them for about half.

What you're suggesting is Ned get paid similar to the likes of Jack Campbell, Casey DeSmith, Copley Washington, and Collin Delia. Unsurprisingly, Ned outperformed all of them

 

[To Be Determined]

The "inconsistent" AHL numbers is way off. Ned won more games in his AHL than any other goalie during his time in the league. His sv% was <.910 his first and last season, but he was still winning at an impressive rate, which indicates he would give up goals when it was 5-2, but would lock the opposition down if it was 3-2. The fixation with sv% is akin to saying that Michael Grabner was a better player than Derrick Brassard because Grabner averaged 23 goals per 82 games over his career while Brassard only averaged 18.

Ned has won games at every level with amazing consistency.

but the "goalie wins" argument also works against ned after a season where "r3im3r" won the same number of games in a couple less starts...

 

[StormCast]

He signed a 2-year, $3 million AAV deal thirty minutes after he was traded. Sounds like he was more than willing to sign a "show me deal."

That's a bit more than a show-me deal but it was a show-me-the-way home deal. Ned's been living in Detroit for the past 10 off-seasons, it's not that far from Parma, and he'll be the #1 there. I think the only thing that surprised him when he got the call was how quickly it happened. It's no coincidence he ended up in Detroit and your point about signing so quickly without opting for arbitration underscores it. Think it was all orchestrated by his agent.

 

[cptjeff]

Are we seriously pursuing anyone that has actually won anything? Who has a champion's pedigree? Survived the test?

Holtby is available.

 

[sheriff bart]

Ned's gotta be worth 2/3 of Darling money

 

[emptyNedder]

but the "goalie wins" argument also works against ned after a season where "r3im3r" won the same number of games in a couple less starts...

Not following the logic--Reimer was 15-5-2 in 21 starts and apparently the game where Mr.Azek was hurt, so basically 22 starts. New was 15-5-3 in 23. Reimer made 3.4M so Ned's ask was "consistent" with that. The original argument was about inconsistency.

 

[Lempo]

Would look funny optics though if one team ditched you for a 3rd and some me-time with a pending UFA before they'd have to QO you, and the next team walked away when you got a salary arbitration award of $3.5M+... the other teams might start to question what is wrong with you.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The "inconsistent" AHL numbers is way off. Ned won more games in his AHL than any other goalie during his time in the league. His sv% was <.910 his first and last season, but he was still winning at an impressive rate, which indicates he would give up goals when it was 5-2, but would lock the opposition down if it was 3-2. The fixation with sv% is akin to saying that Michael Grabner was a better player than Derrick Brassard because Grabner averaged 23 goals per 82 games over his career while Brassard only averaged 18.

Ned has won games at every level with amazing consistency.

I like how you crapped on save percentage then decided to hitch your wagon to a less performance indicating stat in wins. Wins mean very little in translation to the NHL game. Might as well go sign Max Legace or Stolarz because they had huge win numbers in the AHL. Winning has more to do with the team in front of Ned which he had a really good one his 3 seasons, or how bad the competition is.

 

[cptjeff]

Would look funny optics though if one team ditched you for a 3rd and some me-time with a pending UFA before they'd have to QO you, and the next team walked away when you got a salary arbitration award of $3.5M+... the other teams might start to question what is wrong with you.

Yeah, kinda wonder if Ned being blindsided by the trade shook him a bit. Might have told his agent to not press his luck anymore, to just get a reasonable deal and move on. Liking the destination for personal reasons can't have hurt, either.

 

[Lempo]

Yeah, kinda wonder if Ned being blindsided by the trade shook him a bit. Might have told his agent to not press his luck anymore, to just get a reasonable deal and move on. Liking the destination for personal reasons can't have hurt, either.

Now to think of it, $6 million is a lot.

 

[To Be Determined]

Not following the logic--Reimer was 15-5-2 in 21 starts and apparently the game where Mr.Azek was hurt, so basically 22 starts. New was 15-5-3 in 23. Reimer made 3.4M so Ned's ask was "consistent" with that. The original argument was about inconsistency.

the point i was (poorly, i guess) making was that your response to ned's inconsistency in the past was to say it didn't matter because he won. but goalie wins don't mean much - and i tried to compare to reimer who was often abused on here (thus the r3im3r nickname) in spite of his goalie wins.

if you are the borg and concerned about inconsistency throughout his development, you don't lose that concern because the guy won behind a team good enough to drag reimer to wins. heck, even in his ahl goalie of the year season, he was on an absolutely stacked team. his numbers that year in ~50 games weren't much different from dustin tokarski's numbers behind the same team in ~30 games.

i didn't mean to tie any of that to his ask. sorry if it looked that way.

at the end of it all, the borg just didn't believe in him. in spite of what some believe, there is at least an argument to be made there. it doesn't mean anyone has to agree with it, but it is there. if he proves them wrong in detroit, good on him - i really do wish him well except against the canes. though i do admit, if he's tearing it up up there, i'm not looking forward to hearing about it in the gdts after every goal against for the canes next season lol

 

[emptyNedder]

if you are the borg and concerned about inconsistency throughout his development, you don't lose that concern because the guy won behind a team good enough to drag reimer to wins. heck, even in his ahl goalie of the year season, he was on an absolutely stacked team. his numbers that year in ~50 games weren't much different from dustin tokarski's numbers behind the same team in ~30 games.

The point I was also poorly making is that there isn't much inconsistency to worry about--I don't believe that is why Ned is gone. Let's look at a measure for consistency (used on hockey-reference.com, Rob Volmann's "Really Bad Start"--a start with sv% below 85%). There were only 3 goalies in the NHL last season who started at least 20 games who had no RBS. Ned, Ullmark, and Vasilevsky. Ned was the model of consistency--even in the playoff game with the bad goal his sv% was .933.

Given all the evidence that Ned was a consistent winner and in the NHL consistent from game to game, it makes as much sense to argue that the Borg didn't want Ned for illogical reasons.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The point I was also poorly making is that there isn't much inconsistency to worry about--I don't believe that is why Ned is gone. Let's look at a measure for consistency (used on hockey-reference.com, Rob Volmann's "Really Bad Start"--a start with sv% below 85%). There were only 3 goalies in the NHL last season who started at least 20 games who had no RBS. Ned, Ullmark, and Vasilevsky. Ned was the model of consistency--even in the playoff game with the bad goal his sv% was .933.

Given all the evidence that Ned was a consistent winner and in the NHL consistent from game to game, it makes as much sense to argue that the Borg didn't want Ned for illogical reasons.

23 games is consistent? But its Waddell that is illogical, ok.

 

[LakeLivin]

You're wondering if giving up a bad goal subconsciously broke the "trust" the Borg had built with Ned. I'm saying if it did, they shouldn't be running the team.

Bad goals are given up, players are caught out of position, mistakes happen. Particularly when dealing with young players. That's hockey.

If they're subconsciously losing trust in players every time a mistake is made, they're not fit to run the team

Then I'd wonder where that distrust came from, because that goal was (quite literally) one of the only bad goals I can recall him giving up this year.

And I'd also wonder why they'd focus on that goal instead of literally the rest of his performance this year

It comes down to Ned wanted to be a starter and inexperienced starter money. Management team wasn’t ready to commit to that. If Ned would have taken a show me deal then I think he would have stayed. Between his inconsistent AHL and NHL numbers, the team didn’t feel they could say he was a starter on a championship aspiring team.

i have little doubt it has anything to do with one soft goal but whole body of wirk.

You guys still aren't grasping the point of the original question, lol. I'll try one last time before I drop it.

Consider the definition of the idiom "the straw that broke the Camel's back":
"The straw that broke the camel's back", describes the minor or routine action that causes an unpredictably large and sudden reaction, because of the cumulative effect of small actions, alluding to the proverb "it is the last straw that breaks the camel's back".

Or think of testing a material that has a tensile strength of 50 lbs. You add a lb at a time and the material holds up through 50 lbs. Then you add 1 more pound and it breaks. That last lb didn't contribute to the breakage any more than any of the first 50, but if it hadn't been added the material wouldn't have broken.

I'd argue that the Goodrow goal was almost certainly a bigger kick in the psychological cods than your typical soft goal. So my question basically is "if that hadn't happened, is it possible that the 'Ned stress test' might have stayed under 51 lbs?" I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with my original query (note "query" not "assertion"), rather just trying to clarify the question.

For the record, unless we haven't seen the second part of a bigger plan, I think the Borg made a mistake in trading Ned; I'd have liked to have seen him given a shot.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Are we seriously pursuing anyone that has actually won anything? Who has a champion's pedigree? Survived the test?

I find it interesting that so many of the Checkers have hit the road or been sent packing when they actually accomplished their goal.

Does anyone know the last Calder cup winning starting goalie to win a Stanley Cup as well? Was it Quick?

Edit: No, Patrick Roy is the answer. 35 years ago. Maybe being a “Calder Cup Winning goalie” means f*** all?

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

You guys still aren't grasping the point of the original question, lol. I'll try one last time before I drop it.

Consider the definition of the idiom "the straw that broke the Camel's back":
"The straw that broke the camel's back", describes the minor or routine action that causes an unpredictably large and sudden reaction, because of the cumulative effect of small actions, alluding to the proverb "it is the last straw that breaks the camel's back".

Or think of testing a material that has a tensile strength of 50 lbs. You add a lb at a time and the material holds up through 50 lbs. Then you add 1 more pound and it breaks. That last lb didn't contribute to the breakage any more than any of the first 50, but if it hadn't been added the material wouldn't have broken.

I'd argue that the Goodrow goal was almost certainly a bigger kick in the psychological cods than your typical soft goal. So my question basically is "if that hadn't happened, is it possible that the 'Ned stress test' might have stayed under 51 lbs?" I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with my original query (note "query" not "assertion"), rather just trying to clarify the question.

For the record, unless we haven't seen the second part of a bigger plan, I think the Borg made a mistake in trading Ned; I'd have liked to have seen him given a shot.

This some kind of socratic questioning of the HF26 scholarly circles?

 

[DaveG]

Does anyone know the last Calder cup winning starting goalie to win a Stanley Cup as well? Was it Quick?

I don't think Quick ever won the Calder Cup. I know Holtby did but not sure if the starter was him or Neuvirth. I think it was Neuvirth. If so you may have to go all the way back to frigin Roy because I'm not sure that Brodeur ever did it either.

 

[Unsustainable]

Rumor has it Ned used Dundon’s private bathroom after his first start and they still can’t get the smell out.

 

[Chrispy]

I don't think Quick ever won the Calder Cup. I know Holtby did but not sure if the starter was him or Neuvirth. I think it was Neuvirth. If so you may have to go all the way back to frigin Roy because I'm not sure that Brodeur ever did it either.

Does Dryden count since he did it backwards?

 

[hblueridgegal]

Does anyone know the last Calder cup winning starting goalie to win a Stanley Cup as well? Was it Quick?

Edit: No, Patrick Roy is the answer. 35 years ago. Maybe being a “Calder Cup Winning goalie” means f*** all?

I wasn't only talking about the Calder. If we're offloading folks for more dumpster diving or low rent options, I hope they come with a past pedigree of some kind. I fail to see how having accomplishments and championships on your resume or within your program is a negative. A winner's mentality and self confidence that is earned. Such as what Tripp praised Ned for in his goodbye post. And, something I think the Canes could use a little more of on the team.