Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II

[iggyDDS]

Putting aside his flaws and where some of his project him long-term, Pionk has scored at roughly a 6 goal, 44 point pace to this point in his career --- including a 12 goal, 49 point pace this season.

I mean, let's be honest, that's not exactly something that should be easily dismissed or taken for granted.

ADA has less road behind him to this point, but is also on a 50 point pace at the moment.

Yes, things change. And yes they are going to hit rough patches. But in our quest to find young, franchise players I think we do need to acknowledge kids who are at least showing that they have a shot to be good NHL players for us.

We spend so much time talking about what our young players aren't, that we don't really ever talk about what they actually are.

I know that's just what he's on pace for... but that would be so impressive.
Just for fun, the last time a Ranges Dman had more than 50+ points was Brian Leetch in 2001-2002.
Poti came close in 2002-2003 with 48.

 

[Thirty One]

I know that's just what he's on pace for... but that would be so impressive.
Just for fun, the last time a Ranges Dman had more than 50+ points was Brian Leetch in 2001-2002.
Poti came close in 2002-2003 with 48.

No Ranger defenseman has scored more than Poti did in over 15 years. What a legend.

 

[bobbop]

It’s clear the Rangers coaches have more confidence in him than any other defenseman

 

[Edge]

I know that's just what he's on pace for... but that would be so impressive.
Just for fun, the last time a Ranges Dman had more than 50+ points was Brian Leetch in 2001-2002.
Poti came close in 2002-2003 with 48.

Let's even say he settles down a little.

The fact is that we'd be looking at a "rookie" defenseman scoring around 8 goals and 45 points in his first 82 games.

That's not a small feat.

 

[iggyDDS]

Let's even say he settles down a little.

The fact is that we'd be looking at a "rookie" defenseman scoring around 8 goals and 45 points in his first 82 games.

That's not a small feat.

100% agree. I would be very pleasantly surprised if he puts up 40+ points.
Last time a ranger dman had over, was Michael "Lisa Ann" Del Zotto in 2012.

 

[nyr2k2]

It’s clear the Rangers coaches have more confidence in him than any other defenseman

Yep.

And as I said early, I know he grades out poorly in the metrics we look at, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the Rangers have their own set of metrics that they emphasize.

 

[SA16]

If you have 20 points in 41 games you're not actually on pace for 40 points (example). Using a linear extrapolation is faulty. If his expectation is that he will score say 0.3 points/game and he has 20 points in 41 games he is "on pace" for 32 points when we initially expected him to score 25.

 

[B17 Apricots]

If you have 20 points in 41 games you're not actually on pace for 40 points (example). Using a linear extrapolation is faulty. If his expectation is that he will score say 0.3 points/game and he has 20 points in 41 games he is "on pace" for 32 points when we initially expected him to score 25.

u guys are like cult memebers

 

[Filthy Dangles]

No Ranger defenseman has scored more than Poti did in over 15 years. What a legend.

That's funny and sad at the same time

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Yep.

And as I said early, I know he grades out poorly in the metrics we look at, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the Rangers have their own set of metrics that they emphasize.

They evidently do, based on the players they covet and the performance of the team over the past few years haha.

 

[duhmetreE]

If you have 20 points in 41 games you're not actually on pace for 40 points (example). Using a linear extrapolation is faulty. If his expectation is that he will score say 0.3 points/game and he has 20 points in 41 games he is "on pace" for 32 points when we initially expected him to score 25.

Common core analytics

 

[ThirdEye]

That's funny and sad at the same time

The fact that we haven't drafted a franchise forward or stud offensive D in so long is just a testament to how good Hank is. He's not perfect, but what other team has done more with less in the last 15 years

 

[Filthy Dangles]

They evidently do, based on the players they covet and the performance of the team over the past few years haha.

Eh...I mean maybe. But what's the implication here? NYR have some clandestine 'internal metrics' that Pionk is passing with flying colors or something?

This seems like confirmation bias. I think the organization likes Pionk and his skill set but I don't think they're satisfied with him as a 1RD.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Eh...I mean maybe. But what's the implication here? NYR have some clandestine 'internal metrics' that Pionk is passing with flying colors or something?

This seems like confirmation bias. I think the organization likes Pionk and his skill set but I don't think they're satisfied with him as a 1RD.

It was kind of a joke. Had less to do with Pionk and was more a general diss at the organization.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Dude, what a goal... See good things happen when you play both Pionk and ADA.

 

[Thirty One]

If you have 20 points in 41 games you're not actually on pace for 40 points (example). Using a linear extrapolation is faulty. If his expectation is that he will score say 0.3 points/game and he has 20 points in 41 games he is "on pace" for 32 points when we initially expected him to score 25.

In the absence of a universally accepted expected point pace, I think it's ok we use his current rate.

 

[bobbop]

Yep.

And as I said early, I know he grades out poorly in the metrics we look at, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the Rangers have their own set of metrics that they emphasize.

That’s why I block most of the geeks. I don’t know if they even watch the games.

 

[Larrybiv]

Yep.

And as I said early, I know he grades out poorly in the metrics we look at, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the Rangers have their own set of metrics that they emphasize.

This is what AV had said publicly. They have their own "analytics" so to speak. Probably Ruff has passed that on to Quinnie.....who knows? Probably was Ruff's or his connections that was passed on to AV. Again, who knows?

 

[nyr__1994]

Putting aside his flaws and where some of his project him long-term, Pionk has scored at roughly a 6 goal, 44 point pace to this point in his career --- including a 12 goal, 49 point pace this season.

I mean, let's be honest, that's not exactly something that should be easily dismissed or taken for granted.

ADA has less road behind him to this point, but is also on a 50 point pace at the moment.

Yes, things change. And yes they are going to hit rough patches. But in our quest to find young, franchise players I think we do need to acknowledge kids who are at least showing that they have a shot to be good NHL players for us.

We spend so much time talking about what our young players aren't, that we don't really ever talk about what they actually are.

This is spot on. There is waaay too much, X sucked, B was terrible....and not enough of Z made these 3 plays last night that are showing he is getting it, or A had a rough game, but was still able to do this....

There are times I question how some posters can even enjoy watching a game when all they do is bitch and moan. Is that why we are fans, to be entertained?

(insert Russell Crowe .gif from gladiator) I am a tech dummie....

 

[nyr2k2]

Eh...I mean maybe. But what's the implication here? NYR have some clandestine 'internal metrics' that Pionk is passing with flying colors or something?

This seems like confirmation bias. I think the organization likes Pionk and his skill set but I don't think they're satisfied with him as a 1RD.

It's not confirmation bias. I'm just speculating. If his traditional metrics are that bad, yet the team gives his such a huge role, it leads me to think one of two things are happening: either the team doesn't give shit about the numbers behind the performance (unlikely), or they themselves use different methods of evaluating play. Of course, there could be other explanations.

Still, I don't know why it would be hard to believe the Rangers have different means of evaluation and unique metrics and other data to analyze. Baseball teams spend millions on analytics departments, and it's obviously not just a bunch of guys paid to sit and check everyone's numbers on FanGraphs before making a move. They do their own proprietary stuff. Seems plausible and logical that hockey teams would be doing the same to some degree.

And even then, the "passing with flying colors" is also not something I implied. I'm just saying, maybe they have their own systems, and in them he looks competent defensively, rather than the train wreck we see in our stats. Do hockey players wear those "sports bra" tracking devices that measure all sorts of things about speed, location and movement, etc.? That alone could provide a whole wealth of additional data. I'm just saying--I'm sure they look at things other than CFrel% that we don't have access to and never will.

 

[McRanger]

Even if you are playing sound positional defense, spending a lot of time in your own zone with people shooting at your goalie is a bad thing. You aren't on offense and the more shots taken the greater the chance one goes in. There is really nothing particularly new or advanced about these concepts.

Calling shots or shot attempts advanced stats is like looking at my boots and calling them advanced shoes. I mean, I guess there has been significant advances in shoe innovation over the years. But the underlying principle of not wanting to walk around barefoot has remained pretty constant.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

That’s why I block most of the geeks. I don’t know if they even watch the games.

"@silverfish likes this"

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Even if you are playing sound positional defense, spending a lot of time in your own zone with people shooting at your goalie is a bad thing. You aren't on offense and the more shots taken the greater the chance one goes in. There is really nothing particularly new or advanced about these concepts.

Calling shots or shot attempts advanced stats is like looking at my boots and calling them advanced shoes. I mean, I guess there has been significant advances in shoe innovation over the years. But the underlying principle of not wanting to walk around barefoot has remained pretty constant.

Isn't that first sentence sort of contradictory

 

[Irishguy42]

That’s why I block most of the geeks. I don’t know if they even watch the games.

FWIW, most advanced stats "geeks" on here and elsewhere watch the game as much as, if not more, than the "eye tests" crowd. How else do you think data is tracked?

But don't let that stop you being you bb

 

[Thirty One]

Even if you are playing sound positional defense, spending a lot of time in your own zone with people shooting at your goalie is a bad thing. You aren't on offense and the more shots taken the greater the chance one goes in. There is really nothing particularly new or advanced about these concepts.

Calling shots or shot attempts advanced stats is like looking at my boots and calling them advanced shoes. I mean, I guess there has been significant advances in shoe innovation over the years. But the underlying principle of not wanting to walk around barefoot has remained pretty constant.

Boots are advanced shoes and milk is advanced water. This is basic stuff, man.