NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[Barclay Donaldson]

Simon Frasier would be an interesting add for varsity hockey. Would have to imagine that they'd have a pretty healthy pipeline of Canadian players.

Their travel schedule would be tough, though, be that NCHC or CCHA.

They already have a club roster which plays NCAA and ACHA competition. There are teams with worse travel, so that likely isn't a non-starter. The thing is the school is NCAA DII which would provide a cornucopia of issues if they wanted to add NCAA hockey.

 

[Nodak651]

Looks like UNC hockey coach wasn't just blowing air. UNC Hockey Booster Club acquires land in Chapel Hill to build permanent arena :: WRALSportsFan.com
Why are some people so obsessed with shutting down any speculation on new programs? Nothing wrong with speculating what the next programs could be, and of course not all of the boxes will ever be checked off until official announcements are made. Starting D1 programs doesn't happen overnight... except that has actually happened as well, with LIU. There will likely be new programs at some point, and it will likely first be discussed online as unsourced rumors/speculation. Obviously there will be numerous reasons not to add hockey for any school... but there will be more at some point. I don't get shitting all over people for compiling news articles or quotes from club coaches about this, however. Thread title is pretty clear, and if a new program is officially announced, I'm pretty sure there will be a dedicated thread for it.

Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium on the creation of new single sport conferences, which keeps getting extended. Same problem applies to Utica and Binghampton - although Atlantic hockey is reportedly accepting applications for new membership, currently.

Simon Fraser, IF they went D1, would have no problem getting home games, as CousinEddy claims, because the BCHL is the biggest recruiting hotbed in the country. Simon Fraser was even able to draw North Dakota and Princeton out to BC in 2013, for that reason, as a club program.

 

[JMCx4]

... There will likely be new programs at some point, and it will likely first be discussed online as unsourced rumors/speculation. Obviously there will be numerous reasons not to add hockey for any school... but there will be more at some point. I don't get shitting all over people for compiling news articles or quotes from club coaches about this, however. Thread title is pretty clear, and if a new program is officially announced, I'm pretty sure there will be a dedicated thread for it. ...

Dedication is not a strong suit with this crowd. But if a serious DI program announcement is made, I reckon there will be brief attention paid before we get distracted again.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Looks like UNC hockey coach wasn't just blowing air. UNC Hockey Booster Club acquires land in Chapel Hill to build permanent arena :: WRALSportsFan.com
Why are some people so obsessed with shutting down any speculation on new programs? Nothing wrong with speculating what the next programs could be, and of course not all of the boxes will ever be checked off until official announcements are made. Starting D1 programs doesn't happen overnight... except that has actually happened as well, with LIU. There will likely be new programs at some point, and it will likely first be discussed online as unsourced rumors/speculation. Obviously there will be numerous reasons not to add hockey for any school... but there will be more at some point. I don't get shitting all over people for compiling news articles or quotes from club coaches about this, however. Thread title is pretty clear, and if a new program is officially announced, I'm pretty sure there will be a dedicated thread for it.

Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium on the creation of new single sport conferences, which keeps getting extended. Same problem applies to Utica and Binghampton - although Atlantic hockey is reportedly accepting applications for new membership, currently.

Simon Fraser, IF they went D1, would have no problem getting home games, as CousinEddy claims, because the BCHL is the biggest recruiting hotbed in the country. Simon Fraser was even able to draw North Dakota and Princeton out to BC in 2013, for that reason, as a club program.

So they're going to build a 2,000-seat off-campus rink with booster funds that won't be owned by the university?

Sounds like a palace for the club clowns, not the start of a real college hockey program.

 

[S E P H]

Looks like UNC hockey coach wasn't just blowing air. UNC Hockey Booster Club acquires land in Chapel Hill to build permanent arena :: WRALSportsFan.com
Why are some people so obsessed with shutting down any speculation on new programs? Nothing wrong with speculating what the next programs could be, and of course not all of the boxes will ever be checked off until official announcements are made. Starting D1 programs doesn't happen overnight... except that has actually happened as well, with LIU. There will likely be new programs at some point, and it will likely first be discussed online as unsourced rumors/speculation. Obviously there will be numerous reasons not to add hockey for any school... but there will be more at some point. I don't get shitting all over people for compiling news articles or quotes from club coaches about this, however. Thread title is pretty clear, and if a new program is officially announced, I'm pretty sure there will be a dedicated thread for it.

Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium on the creation of new single sport conferences, which keeps getting extended. Same problem applies to Utica and Binghampton - although Atlantic hockey is reportedly accepting applications for new membership, currently.

Simon Fraser, IF they went D1, would have no problem getting home games, as CousinEddy claims, because the BCHL is the biggest recruiting hotbed in the country. Simon Fraser was even able to draw North Dakota and Princeton out to BC in 2013, for that reason, as a club program.

We all know that the two posters on here shop at Hot Topic and wear black lipstick by being keyboard warriors capslocking how "NO FUTURE NEW EXPANSION D1 COLLEGE TEAM WILL EVER WORK." Some truly don't long-term, but if a school is smart who says it can't become ASU? Yes ASU got a very good donation, but then the school backed that up by building a state-of-the-art ice arena.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Looks like UNC hockey coach wasn't just blowing air. UNC Hockey Booster Club acquires land in Chapel Hill to build permanent arena :: WRALSportsFan.com
Why are some people so obsessed with shutting down any speculation on new programs? Nothing wrong with speculating what the next programs could be, and of course not all of the boxes will ever be checked off until official announcements are made. Starting D1 programs doesn't happen overnight... except that has actually happened as well, with LIU. There will likely be new programs at some point, and it will likely first be discussed online as unsourced rumors/speculation. Obviously there will be numerous reasons not to add hockey for any school... but there will be more at some point. I don't get shitting all over people for compiling news articles or quotes from club coaches about this, however. Thread title is pretty clear, and if a new program is officially announced, I'm pretty sure there will be a dedicated thread for it.

Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium on the creation of new single sport conferences, which keeps getting extended. Same problem applies to Utica and Binghampton - although Atlantic hockey is reportedly accepting applications for new membership, currently.

Simon Fraser, IF they went D1, would have no problem getting home games, as CousinEddy claims, because the BCHL is the biggest recruiting hotbed in the country. Simon Fraser was even able to draw North Dakota and Princeton out to BC in 2013, for that reason, as a club program.

There is nothing wrong with speculating about what schools will add NCAA DI hockey programs

There is also nothing wrong absolutely annihilating faulty and moronic logic behind speculation about what schools will add NCAA DI hockey programs.

As Eddy points out: a 2,000 seat off-campus arena fully funded by booster money and not directly owned by the school is just another palatial club barn. It is not any indication of the school's interest in NCAA DI hockey.

What's the point of shitting on people who are compiling news sources? Because there have been countless people to do that, flat out ignoring or being mentally incapable of seeing the lunacy of what their quotes are saying or how the process of NCAA DI hockey actually works.

And how many of those people have ended up being correct? In the last 15 years, only 6 schools have added DI hockey. LIU was added overnight. No one guessed they'd field a NCAA DI hockey. I would still like to know when they end up fielding a team, they still regularly lose to NCAA DII and DIII teams. Augustana, Penn State, and Arizona State had some speculation which only came after a huge donation was made to the school. Lindenwood's announcement came 2 years after their said NCAA DI hockey would be added the following season and they still had another year in the ACHA after. St. Thomas was sudden, no one knew.

And how many have there been people who have been beyond convinced that a school announcement regarding a new NCAA DI hockey program was around the corner? In no particular order, Illinois, High Point, Rutgers, Iowa, UPenn, Utica, Binghamton (under a year away from their suppposed start date with no news, not the first and won't be the last), URI, Missouri State, UCLA, USC, Alabama, Oakland, Pitt, Oregon, UAH (their supposed return is where?), Tennessee State, Arizona, Navy, Buffalo, UNLV.... how many others?

Like I said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out flaws in logic. Especially when it comes to speculation. The difference between speculation and fact is that fact has evidence and speculation is just a guess. And when it comes to guessing, don't be surprised when people rain on your parade... with facts... bring an umbrella if you want to speculate.

 

[Nodak651]

So they're going to build a 2,000-seat off-campus rink with booster funds that won't be owned by the university?

Sounds like a palace for the club clowns, not the start of a real college hockey program.

We don't know yet, because this is a developing project. However, now that we know this IS a legit project, that is something that can be looked into. The details on who and how the arena may be operated don't seem to be finalized. Given that construction has not yet started, it will be interesting to see if the university helps to support the project in any capacity.

We don't know anything more about this so stop making assumptions @Barclay Donaldson.

I don't give a crap about keeping score on predictions. And I'm not making any predictions. The development of college hockey is interesting and merits discussion wether it's at the D1 level or club level.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

We all know that the two posters on here shop at Hot Topic and wear black lipstick by being keyboard warriors capslocking how "NO FUTURE NEW EXPANSION D1 COLLEGE TEAM WILL EVER WORK." Some truly don't long-term, but if a school is smart who says it can't become ASU? Yes ASU got a very good donation, but then the school backed that up by building a state-of-the-art ice arena.

1. If you're going to try and make personal insults, at least have them make sense. I expect a lot more from someone who is only a WHL scout in their own head.

2. No one on this has ever said "NO FUTURE NEW EXPANSION D1 COLLEGE TEAM WILL EVER WORK." What has happened is you make outrageous claims, such as saying how URI and Union are similar and how URI is adding DI hockey. Then people tell you why it won't work. No one has said nothing will ever work. Only that it won't work at the schools where hockey isn't feasible.

3. You constantly show how little you know. Arizona State wouldn't have hockey if the parent of a club hockey goalie didn't have about $30M burning a hole in his pocket. The school didn't build them an ice arena. It built a facility to host a wide variety of events including three non-hockey programs. One of which the school was going to build anyway (volleyball) and rolled it into a one-size fits all facility. So ASU was smart, but no school is going to be an ASU without tens of millions of dollars coming their way from donors being the only reason why the school has NCAA DI hockey.

4. You have proven beyond reasonable doubt you know very little about the NCAA and college hockey in general. From not knowing about even the most common facts about Title IX, to suggesting schools just build ice plants into basketball arenas, not knowing about how scholarships work, not knowing how university spending works, how university funding works, thinking the University of Tennessee's nickname was "The Volts" and that they were an ideal candidate to add NCAA DI hockey. You even claimed at one point that people on this thread take this too seriously when confronted with the fact that very few of the things you claim existed in reality or even made logical sense.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

We don't know yet, because this is a developing project. However, now that we know this IS a legit project, that is something that can be looked into. The details on who and how the arena may be operated don't seem to be finalized. Given that construction has not yet started, it will be interesting to see if the university helps to support the project in any capacity.

We don't know anything more about this so stop making assumptions @Barclay Donaldson.

I don't give a crap about keeping score on predictions. And I'm not making any predictions. The development of college hockey is interesting and merits discussion wether it's at the D1 level or club level.

I haven't made any assumptions. I only stated the facts: it is donor funded, not associated with the school's athletic administration, and is off-campus. This indicates a palatial club barn and nothing else.

 

[Nodak651]

I haven't made any assumptions. I only stated the facts: it is donor funded, not associated with the school's athletic administration, and is off-campus. This indicates a palatial club barn and nothing else.

LOL. Pretty much everything you just said is an assumption given that: "This is still in the early stages of development. There is no exact timeline on building and development."

Hockey boosters bought land with the goal of eventually building an arena. That's literally all we know. We don't know how construction costs for the arena would be financed or anything else. We don't know whether or not they are having, or had, discussions about this project with UNC. FYI, your "indication" is three assumptions in itself. Given that you care so much about facts, post your sources and contribute, or stfu.

 

[Nodak651]

LIU was added overnight. No one guessed they'd field a NCAA DI hockey. I would still like to know when they end up fielding a team, they still regularly lose to NCAA DII and DIII teams.

How do you define regularly, because that looks to be a straight up lie. St. Anselm beat them with a flukey win tonight, despit getting outshot 47-10. This is hockey... things like that happen. Other than their inaugural covid season and this specific game, LIU has dominated every non-D1 team they've played and the combined goal differential is roughly 10 to 1.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

How do you define regularly, because that looks to be a straight up lie. St. Anselm beat them with a flukey win tonight, despit getting outshot 47-10. This is hockey... things like that happen. Other than their inaugural covid season and this specific game, LIU has dominated every non-D1 team they've played and the combined goal differential is roughly 10 to 1.

They lost to an ACHA team. A NCAA DI team should not be having a close game with any NCAA DIII team let alone losing. Let alone losing to an ACHA team with all but two of their top players in the lineup. Effects of rushing the program.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

LOL. Pretty much everything you just said is an assumption given that: "This is still in the early stages of development. There is no exact timeline on building and development."

Hockey boosters bought land with the goal of eventually building an arena. That's literally all we know. We don't know how construction costs for the arena would be financed or anything else. We don't know whether or not they are having, or had, discussions about this project with UNC. FYI, your "indication" is three assumptions in itself. Given that you care so much about facts, post your sources and contribute, or stfu.

All I said was

1. it is booster funded, which it is...per the article. The school administration isn't involved in the purchase of the land...per the article.
2. it is off-campus, which it is...per the article. Five miles from the school.
3. it is a 2,000 seat arena, which it will be...per the article. Our collective vision.... and then 2,000 seats. And based on what one can build with barely 4 acres of land, a 2,000-3,500 seat arena is about the most you can feasibly do without other school-utilized infrastructure nearby (think parking lots)

None of these three were or are assumptions. If you get easily offended by people pointing out flaws in what you're saying, you're going to have a tough time here.

 

[mk80]

UAH (their supposed return is where?)

If I was a donor to their funding campaign, I'd be very interested in learning where that money is right now, or more likely what it was spent on.

As for the UNC arena situation, I'll reserve my judgement on it at least until we see some shovels in the ground. Based on what info we have, the land for an arena has been acquired, but that doesn't guarantee the construction of a rink yet.

If we compare their goal for 2k seats to Augustana's Midco Arena project which will seat just over 3,000. We're looking at about a $40 million facility cost on top of what the cost of the land was.

 

[MeHateHe]

Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium

And lack of money and lack of interest by the school beyond the ambitions of a coach. Also the lack of their own rink. And the total lack of hockey culture at the school (Canadian university sports don't get big crowds), in a metro area that is fairly flooded with hockey already (NHL, AHL, WHL. USports and several BCHL clubs), which means getting fans to buy tickets and merchandise will be an enormous undertaking. And the fact that traveling to a different country adds a whole extra hassle for the rest of the NCAA.

It's all well and good for a few people in the hockey program to have a dream. Good for them. Dream big. But saying that a 'lack of a conference' is the biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is rather understating the enormous hill they'd have to climb.

Once the school hires an athletic director, that AD's first priority will be to spend whatever money they can scrape together to restart their football program in whatever league will have them.

So yeah, Simon Fraser has some work to do.

 

[JMCx4]

If I was a donor to their funding campaign, I'd be very interested in learning where that money is right now, or more likely what it was spent on. ...

Maybe they're stocking up on Alabama white BBQ sauce. And who could blame them?

 

[Nodak651]

They lost to an ACHA team. A NCAA DI team should not be having a close game with any NCAA DIII team let alone losing. Let alone losing to an ACHA team with all but two of their top players in the lineup. Effects of rushing the program.

Try reading what I wrote again. "Other than their inaugural covid season". Yes, I agree, their first season was rushed. Having to go back to that first season to find the only other examle to support your claim that it's a regular occurrence is rather ironic.

 

[Nodak651]

And lack of money and lack of interest by the school beyond the ambitions of a coach. Also the lack of their own rink. And the total lack of hockey culture at the school (Canadian university sports don't get big crowds), in a metro area that is fairly flooded with hockey already (NHL, AHL, WHL. USports and several BCHL clubs), which means getting fans to buy tickets and merchandise will be an enormous undertaking. And the fact that traveling to a different country adds a whole extra hassle for the rest of the NCAA.

It's all well and good for a few people in the hockey program to have a dream. Good for them. Dream big. But saying that a 'lack of a conference' is the biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is rather understating the enormous hill they'd have to climb.

Once the school hires an athletic director, that AD's first priority will be to spend whatever money they can scrape together to restart their football program in whatever league will have them.

So yeah, Simon Fraser has some work to do.

Never claimed they didn't have a bunch of roadblocks to navigate. We are all aware of them. They are still worth mentioning in a thread dedicated to NCAA hockey expansion given that they are actually trying and were able ro schedule 7 D1 games and have hosted NCAA programs. Of course that doesn't mean they will succeed.

You have no clue what the next AD will want to do given that American FB was an absolute failure there. It's also not any cheaper, the likelyhood of finding a conference is even worse, the local talent is non existent, and even less people care about D2 American FB.

 

[Nodak651]

All I said was

1. it is booster funded, which it is...per the article. The school administration isn't involved in the purchase of the land...per the article.
2. it is off-campus, which it is...per the article. Five miles from the school.
3. it is a 2,000 seat arena, which it will be...per the article. Our collective vision.... and then 2,000 seats. And based on what one can build with barely 4 acres of land, a 2,000-3,500 seat arena is about the most you can feasibly do without other school-utilized infrastructure nearby (think parking lots)

None of these three were or are assumptions. If you get easily offended by people pointing out flaws in what you're saying, you're going to have a tough time here.

It's an assumption that the Arena itself will be entirely funded by the boosters with no support from the University, because the final details on how the actual building may be financed have not yet been determined - "This is still in the early stages of development. There is no exact timeline on building and development." It's still an assumption that they will even be able to get shovels in the ground.

Yeah, I already stated that the boosters paid for the land. It's an assumption that they will not have help with construction. We do not know whether or not they are working with the school yet, do we? I already stayed this. You are assuming the answer.

Assuming it will be a "palace" for club hockey. To be honest, it sounds similar to many of the newer community arenas, and with rising construction costs, size and scope of projects like this often get downsized.

You're assuming the arena would be for club hockey and nothing else. Universities often implement programming at arenas near campus for both classes and intramurals. Assumption they wouldn't be interested.

All I did was state that the school was building an arena, which proves the coach wasn't making everything up. So, if he was proven correct about the boosters, it's reasonable to give more weight to the other things he mentioned. Doesn't mean I'm making any predictions. Listing them as a school to have on the radar, in a conference realignment thread, shouldn't mean that a barage of obvious bs should have to follow. Sometimes current events are just interesting. Who knows, maybe one of the backers is the next Terry Pegula. Prob not. There is momentum, however, and it's worth mentioning.

 

[Nodak651]

If you get easily offended by people pointing out flaws in what you're saying, you're going to have a tough time here.

You're projecting.

 

[Nodak651]

There is also nothing wrong absolutely annihilating faulty and moronic logic behind speculation about what schools will add NCAA DI hockey programs.

St. Thomas was sudden, no one knew.

And when it comes to guessing, don't be surprised when people rain on your parade... with facts... bring an umbrella if you want to speculate.

There was speculation on St. Thomas when they were still D3, before the announced Summit League invite and before the acceptance of NCAA waivers that were later needed. Guessing you would have just rained down the facts for the numerous reasons them going D1 in hockey would be impossible!

 

[MeHateHe]

Never claimed they didn't have a bunch of roadblocks to navigate.

Wut

You said "Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium." You could look it up.

You have no clue what the next AD will want to do given that American FB was an absolute failure there. It's also not any cheaper, the likelyhood of finding a conference is even worse, the local talent is non existent, and even less people care about D2 American FB.

Simon Fraser's football team was more than just a DII team. Around students and alumni, it was an institution. Prominent business types in the lower mainland have made an issue of it. It was a topic of discussion among BC legislators and was on the 6 o'clock news for days. If the school launched an initiative to start an NCAA hockey program after having killed its football program, it would be an enormous problem.

It's great that the team's coach has big dreams. And it's fine to mention it as that. But the posters you've been blowing off actually know how the programs get started. I have a pretty good sense - because, you know, I actually live here - of how remote is the possibility of this coming to pass. You don't just wake up and say 'I want to start a major hockey program' and poof, there it is. Absent internal factors - money, an interested fanbase, a useful arena needing a major tenant, a school (not just a coach, but the actual institution) with a desire to enter the market - and external factors - Oh, I dunno, the NCAA having any real interest in coming - the proposal is not credible. It's a wish without foundation. And people who understand these things will likely call it that.

 

[Nodak651]

Wut

You said "Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium." You could look it up.

Simon Fraser's football team was more than just a DII team. Around students and alumni, it was an institution. Prominent business types in the lower mainland have made an issue of it. It was a topic of discussion among BC legislators and was on the 6 o'clock news for days. If the school launched an initiative to start an NCAA hockey program after having killed its football program, it would be an enormous problem.

It's great that the team's coach has big dreams. And it's fine to mention it as that. But the posters you've been blowing off actually know how the programs get started. I have a pretty good sense - because, you know, I actually live here - of how remote is the possibility of this coming to pass. You don't just wake up and say 'I want to start a major hockey program' and poof, there it is. Absent internal factors - money, an interested fanbase, a useful arena needing a major tenant, a school (not just a coach, but the actual institution) with a desire to enter the market - and external factors - Oh, I dunno, the NCAA having any real interest in coming - the proposal is not credible. It's a wish without foundation. And people who understand these things will likely call it that.

Not sure why you're so confused about what I said. Your FB program that supposedly has so much support and community interest failed for the exact same issue - lack of a conference. Never did I say that it was the only issue for hockey, but it is an issue they have no control over.

The FB program was a joke and I wouldn't give FB any greater chance to achieve their goals than the hockey program, based on this report: https://www.mclarenglobalsportsolutions.com/pdf/SFU-SpecialAdvisorReport-9-18.pdf Sounds like the entire athletic department is a total mess and that it will be restructured, so it will be interesting to see what comes of that. Whether they choose to stay in the NCAA or move everything back to Canada will say a lot.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

There was speculation on St. Thomas when they were still D3, before the announced Summit League invite and before the acceptance of NCAA waivers that were later needed. Guessing you would have just rained down the facts for the numerous reasons them going D1 in hockey would be impossible!

Misinterpretation on your part. If they weren't kicked out of the MIAC, they wouldn't have gone NCAA DI. The representation from UST went to that meeting with no clue what was going to happen. When they threatened to fight it immediately afterwards, the rest of the league threatened to leave and form their own league. That was beyond sudden.

 

[MeHateHe]

Sounds like the entire athletic department is a total mess and that it will be restructured, so it will be interesting to see what comes of that. Whether they choose to stay in the NCAA or move everything back to Canada will say a lot.

So your argument is that the athletic department is such a mess that it can't re-establish a football program, and that means it will establish a hockey program?