Murray's Mindset

[sabrebuild]

Considering the discussion on what Centers the Sabres should go for next year I was wondering what people thought Murray's mindset is in how aggressive he wants to be in improving the team, standings wise as well as culture/prospect protection. Aggressive or Conservative?

What would be a good list of centers that would be good fits for next year? I want to make a list of those guys from most desirable/hard to get to acceptable/easy to get, but I can't decide how aggressive Murray will be this offseason.

So different question, in one scenario McEichel is in our pocket, he should step into the show and be a great rookie, and fill a big need, speed and scoring. How hard does Murray go for home run signing, aka, how big would he spend? ROR is definitely attainable depending on how much Murray will spend and risk.

In scenario number 2, we miss on McEichel, we still have a great Girgs, promising Grigo, and Reinhart coming back and being ready to play, but we definitely don't have an impact rookie coming in from the draft, maybe Hanifin/Zacha physically speaking.

So I would bet in scenario 1, Murray feels he has enough building blocks that its time to seriously build the roster to help drive a legitimate push, spots 8-12. Probably miss, but make a real effort to put out the best team in the standings without sacrificing core prospects.

Scenario 2, I could definitely see Murray taking one more season to see where Grigorenko and Reinhart are at, and then take the plunge into FA and aggressive trades in 2016.

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[Bps21*]

His mindset should be...i have inherited the worst team in the league with 2 better forward prospects in the next draft than buffalo has seen in a generation. If I fail to get one I should be fired.

 

[Samsonite23]

His mindset should be...i have inherited the worst team in the league with 2 better forward prospects in the next draft than buffalo has seen in a generation. If I fail to get one I should be fired.

But our team is bad right now!!!

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

His mindset should be...i have inherited the worst team in the league with 2 better forward prospects in the next draft than buffalo has seen in a generation. If I fail to get one I should be fired.

Yep. The rebuild will end so much faster with McDavid or Eichel in the fold.

How many non playoff seasons does Murray get? If we aren't a playoff team by 2017 with or without a "McEichel" then Murray needs to be **** canned. 3 full seasons is plenty. Calgary is going from picking #4 to a likely playoff spot in one year. If this team can add in Eichel and then a couple top 6 forwards in FA/trade no reason we can't make a playoff push in 15-16 and then easily lockup a spot in 16-17. No playoffs by then , then bye bye Murray. He isn't some guru . He hasn't made any outstanding trades and aside from the STL 1st and the MIN 2nd he flipped for Gorges he inherited all those picks from Regier.

 

[Bps21*]

I think he gets until 2017-18 for the playoffs. I think we will make our move before that...but if we are at the bottom in 14-15...which is the place to be...I think he gets until 17-18 before he's under real review.

...

And if we are last this year I think we are already in the playoffs the year before that

 

[Savitar]

Punting mode

 

[TehDoak]

He's publicly stated that he wants to see progress this year, but his expectations will be raised in 2015-2016.

I think we'll see the trade deadline move forward much like last years. Pick up a few project players (Deslauriers, Conacher) some salary dumps (Stewart, Mitchell), and some futures (St Louis 2015 1st, 2x 2nds from Minn, Carrier)

If Buffalo is going to make a big move, it'll be at the draft or after the season.

 

[Jim Bob]

He's publicly stated that he wants to see progress this year, but his expectations will be raised in 2015-2016.

I think we'll see the trade deadline move forward much like last years. Pick up a few project players (Deslauriers, Conacher) some salary dumps (Stewart, Mitchell), and some futures (St Louis 2015 1st, 2x 2nds from Minn, Carrier)

If Buffalo is going to make a big move, it'll be at the draft or after the season.

This with the only difference is being when I expect Murray to make a "big move".

I would expect him to wait until Reinhart and the 2015 1st to be more mature before making a huge move outside of maybe having to make a bold move to get a #1 goalie if he isn't sold on Enroth or Neuvirth as the guy moving forward.

 

[TehDoak]

This with the only difference is being when I expect Murray to make a "big move".

I would expect him to wait until Reinhart and the 2015 1st to be more mature before making a huge move outside of maybe having to make a bold move to get a #1 goalie if he isn't sold on Enroth or Neuvirth as the guy moving forward.

I just don't see him using all 3 1st's given the state of the prospect pool right now (over crowded). I think one of the St Louis/NYI's 1sts goes off for immediate improvement.

 

[Irving Zisman]

I just don't see him using all 3 1st's given the state of the prospect pool right now (over crowded). I think one of the St Louis/NYI's 1sts goes off for immediate improvement.

I agree. There's so much in the system that they can afford to send one or some of those picks for immediate help.

 

[MayDay]

What would be a good list of centers that would be good fits for next year?

If we get McEichel, we already have three NHL centers locked-in, IMO. Girgensons, McEichel, and Reinhart. Doesn't leave much room to add centers in free agency. If we want to add veterans through FA or trade, it should be on the wing.

Just don't see any way that Reinhart is not in the NHL next season, provided he follows Murray's directive to add strength and weight. He was the top forward selected in his draft class - which means that he is already unusual in being sent back to Junior after the draft. There's no way he's going to be sent down for two years running.

I really think Grigorenko will be up next season too, though maybe they won't be able to slot him in at center. Maybe try him on the wing.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Reinhart turns 20 on 11/6/2015, so he could get sent to Rochester after a month on the roster. He doesn't necessarily have to make the team. It might be a painfully slow process to put him through, but it may be best for him to play men in the AHL for a few months or even longer.

 

[Chemical]

Is reinhart's contract eligible to slide again next year? If so, that might be another factor in keeping him in Roc for all but 9 games. Bulk him up physically for 3 full years on ELC

 

[Zman5778]

This with the only difference is being when I expect Murray to make a "big move".

I would expect him to wait until Reinhart and the 2015 1st to be more mature before making a huge move outside of maybe having to make a bold move to get a #1 goalie if he isn't sold on Enroth or Neuvirth as the guy moving forward.

I'm with you. I think a "big move" doesn't come until during the 15/16 season or the offseason between 15/16 and 16/17.

That, to me, doesn't count getting a potential #1 goalie that would be "the guy" once we're ready. (Such as trading for Subban or Fucale or some other high-end talent that's stuck)

I think he'll wait and see what he has in Reinhart, Armia, Grigorenko, our 2015 1st and others before deciding on which "big piece" to go after. I still fully expect it to be a high-end scoring winger, which is generally one of the last pieces that true contenders really get.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

I just don't see him using all 3 1st's given the state of the prospect pool right now (over crowded). I think one of the St Louis/NYI's 1sts goes off for immediate improvement.

This is what I suspect he'll want to do as well. Assuming he can get a willing partner.

Reinhart turns 20 on 11/6/2015, so he could get sent to Rochester after a month on the roster. He doesn't necessarily have to make the team. It might be a painfully slow process to put him through, but it may be best for him to play men in the AHL for a few months or even longer.

I was against Reinhart going back to Jrs. Nice to see him pick up right where he left off, but I still don't like the decision. That said, I am fine with a stint in Rochester next year. I still predict he'll make the big team (I failed on that prediction this year), but no problem securing him with the Amerks. Whatever is best for him. He's a stellar prospect I/we have high hopes for.

 

[Husko]

Any chance he kicks one of the firsts down the road a year or two? Trade a team the 2015 first for a 2016/2017 first + ?

 

[Sabre the Win]

I just don't see him using all 3 1st's given the state of the prospect pool right now (over crowded). I think one of the St Louis/NYI's 1sts goes off for immediate improvement.

or you use them on prospect players still 4-5 years out so your pipeline is deep for a decade of dominance.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Any chance he kicks one of the firsts down the road a year or two? Trade a team the 2015 first for a 2016/2017 first + ?

That's exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. Why would we deliberately set our timeline back? If anything, Murray should be looking at moving some picks for players.

 

[Cirris]

I just don't see him using all 3 1st's given the state of the prospect pool right now (over crowded). I think one of the St Louis/NYI's 1sts goes off for immediate improvement.

I could see Murray using both those picks to move up in the draft 8-10 places and get someone he REALLY believes in. provided those picks are in the bottom 10 of the first round.

I could see him using the second 1st round pick and our early 2nd round pick to move up 3-5 slots to get someone he really likes.

I mean it's not just the fact that we have 3 1st rounders. It's also the fact we'll also have two 2nds as well.

It's almost a guarantee that the Sabres will have 4 or the top 35 pick this year. Provided they don't trade them away. It would be easy for them to consolidate a few of those picks into a slightly higher one to get quality over quantity.

 

[Dunkster19]

Once he has secured drafting McDavid or Eichel the tank is over. After you get that number 1 center you need a goal scoring winger. That will come via trade or packaging the Blues and Islanders first rounders to move up. He will begin moving heaven and earth to improve the team in a hurry. That may mean moving some promising prospects and other picks. I agree with those that say we challenge for a playoff spot next season but fall short. Our D is set right now with George's/Myers, Risto/Zad and McCabe/Pysyk. That is pretty solid. I have to believe that one of Armia, Fasching and Baptiste will emerge as a #1 RW. You then plug in McEichel and that yet to be determined #1 LW and voila. We already have all the horses in the stable for our 2nd 3rd and 4th lines. If one of our Swedish goalies do not pan out we will have to trade for a goalie. Stewart and our 2nd to Boston for Subban? Or to Montreal for Fucale?

 

[Jim Bob]

I just don't see him using all 3 1st's given the state of the prospect pool right now (over crowded). I think one of the St Louis/NYI's 1sts goes off for immediate improvement.

I agree. There's so much in the system that they can afford to send one or some of those picks for immediate help.

I don't see Murray being able to move a late 1st for what would amount to a "big move".

For instance, I don't see him trading a late 1st for a guy like Evander Kane that would immediately be a part of the core. And to me, that is the type of player he would have to add for it to be a "big move".

Something a lot bigger than what he added this past off season.

 

[Jim Bob]

Any chance he kicks one of the firsts down the road a year or two? Trade a team the 2015 first for a 2016/2017 first + ?

That's exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. Why would we deliberately set our timeline back? If anything, Murray should be looking at moving some picks for players.

I could see Murray using both those picks to move up in the draft 8-10 places and get someone he REALLY believes in. provided those picks are in the bottom 10 of the first round.

I could see him using the second 1st round pick and our early 2nd round pick to move up 3-5 slots to get someone he really likes.

I mean it's not just the fact that we have 3 1st rounders. It's also the fact we'll also have two 2nds as well.

It's almost a guarantee that the Sabres will have 4 or the top 35 pick this year. Provided they don't trade them away. It would be easy for them to consolidate a few of those picks into a slightly higher one to get quality over quantity.

I could see Murray kicking one of those 1sts down the road only if he first tries to move up and/or move them for prospects or NHLers and fails.

Murray was unable to move his 3 2nds last year for a mid to late 1st.

Just because he might want to move the Isles and/or the Blues 1st doesn't mean that he finds a deal that he likes.

 

[TehDoak]

I could see Murray using both those picks to move up in the draft 8-10 places and get someone he REALLY believes in. provided those picks are in the bottom 10 of the first round.

I could see him using the second 1st round pick and our early 2nd round pick to move up 3-5 slots to get someone he really likes.

I mean it's not just the fact that we have 3 1st rounders. It's also the fact we'll also have two 2nds as well.

It's almost a guarantee that the Sabres will have 4 or the top 35 pick this year. Provided they don't trade them away. It would be easy for them to consolidate a few of those picks into a slightly higher one to get quality over quantity.

We'll have to see. You rarely see someone dropping from 8-12 range down the the 20s. Maybe if a team's closet is bare they may opt for quantity over quality, but usually the opposite is true.

 

[Irving Zisman]

This with the only difference is being when I expect Murray to make a "big move".

I would expect him to wait until Reinhart and the 2015 1st to be more mature before making a huge move outside of maybe having to make a bold move to get a #1 goalie if he isn't sold on Enroth or Neuvirth as the guy moving forward.

I wasn't saying that only the 1st's would be in play. We have so many prospects and young talent that we could package together. A bunch of us on here we're proposing deals like STL 1st, Compher, Pysyk/McCabe for O'Reilly, for example.

I also don't think Murray's going to wait until Reinhart and our 2015 1st this year mature before making that type of deal. If anything, he'd make the deal sooner (at the draft), to both improve the team now and help develop guys like Reinhart and the 2015 1st.

Young players need established vets to take pressure off of them to develop properly. I want Reinhart, Armia, Grigs, 2015 1st, etc. playing sheltered 3rd line minutes next year so they build confidence and aren't burdened with roles they can't handle.

 

[Cirris]

We'll have to see. You rarely see someone dropping from 8-12 range down the the 20s. Maybe if a team's closet is bare they may opt for quantity over quality, but usually the opposite is true.

It would probably be 10-15th pick that we're talking about. And while it doesn't happen often, it does happen. Girgensons at #14 is proof of that. And Buffalo only had to part with a middle 2nd rounder to move up 7 spots to get him. It would probably have to be a team whose scouting doesn't believe in anyone for that draft slot when a few of their target players go off the board. And yeah, it would be quantity for them to get a few late first rounders as projects picks after they feel there's no quality impact players left on their draft board earlier in the round.