Proposal: MTL & NJ

[bud12]

Kakko for Guhle is a easy no for Mtl.

 

[HabsAddict]

You either highly overrated Guhle or underrated Kakko. Take your pick.

Laf for the rangers is like slaf being available for the Habs. It’s a non-starter and a waste of oxygen….

It pure fantasy to think you are going to get Ghule for Kakko. It's a non-starter and a waste of oxygen...

 

[Baksfamous112]

no it's not.

kakko has a lot more trade value than dvorak.
and after this season laf would probably return more than guhle. no need for trolling.

He went to the extreme with his comparison but the other guy wasn’t too serious either.

Kakko is probably the kind of guy Hughes would target with WIN 1st but that’s pretty much it. His value tanked hard

 

[Essenege]

MTL : Matheson (50%) + WPG first around #24
for
NJ : #11 2024 + 3rd rd 2024

NJ gets a upgrade on LD for next 3 year while still getting a first pick.
MTL gets a better draft position for their rebuild.

Why the hell would Habs retain on Matheson? His contract his great value.

Personally I think Montreal get screwed in this trade even without retention. People overvalue first round pick. Remove Winnipeg’s pick, remove retention, now we’re closer.

 

[jfhabs]

Matheson 50% to move up 10-14 spot it seem very expensive…

At 50% he's worth this pick by himself

NJ needs a lefty defender with consistent physical defense that is competent with the puck on his stick. Whether that's Matheson I don't know. They have Luke Hughes and don't need a PP guy or really a transition guy as they have Hamilton returning and Nemc on the right side. The two guys at issue are Siegnethaler and Bahl. Neither has been as defensively steady as the team had hoped. In Siegenthaler's case maybe it's injury and he can heal up and bounce back. In Bahl's case maybe it's youth and coaching. We will see.

Consistent defenseman, good with the puck on his stick is something very rare in the NHL today... Do you have examples, because to me, that's the type of D that's simply not available.

 

[Natey]

For 50% retained Matheson? Sure, assuming we can flip him for more.

There's no spot for him on our roster really but I'm sure at 50% we could flip him for pieces we actually need.

From Montreal in terms of pieces that would actually fit into helping NJDs roster makeup:

Guhle: 2LD with marino, would offer our 2024 1st+sweeteners
Montembault: 1G. Would offer our 2025 1st
Newhook: 3C/3LW: would offer our 2025 1st+winnipeg 2nd
Evans: 4C: Would offer 2024 3rd
Dvorak (50%): 4C: would offer 2024 3rd
Josh Anderson (50%): Miles wood replacement: would offer winnipeg 2nd

Where can I drop-off Anderson? No take backs.

 

[My3Sons]

At 50% he's worth this pick by himself


Consistent defenseman, good with the puck on his stick is something very rare in the NHL today... Do you have examples, because to me, that's the type of D that's simply not available.

Some Montreal fans talked about Matheson as a power play guy or scoring guy. NJ doesn't need that. They need a guy who is defense first and just not a grenade handler. Beyond that, we fundamentally disagree on the real world value of a guy like Matheson. If he was worth a top ten lottery pick dont' you think Montreal would have traded him already?

 

[Baksfamous112]

Some Montreal fans talked about Matheson as a power play guy or scoring guy. NJ doesn't need that. They need a guy who is defense first and just not a grenade handler. Beyond that, we fundamentally disagree on the real world value of a guy like Matheson. If he was worth a top ten lottery pick dont' you think Montreal would have traded him already?

Regardless of value, Montreal can’t afford to trade Matheson. No NHL team, rebuilding or not, should ice 5/6 23 years old and younger.

 

[HabsAddict]

Some Montreal fans talked about Matheson as a power play guy or scoring guy. NJ doesn't need that. They need a guy who is defense first and just not a grenade handler. Beyond that, we fundamentally disagree on the real world value of a guy like Matheson. If he was worth a top ten lottery pick dont' you think Montreal would have traded him already?

He will get traded at the TD to the highest bidder because he will be replaced by Hutson and Mailloux.

 

[My3Sons]

Regardless of value, Montreal can’t afford to trade Matheson. No NHL team, rebuilding or not, should ice 5/6 23 years old and younger.

I'm not advocating they do. I agree you have to keep some competent veterans in place to avoid exposing the kids to overwork and situations they have no familiarity with right off the jump. My only real point was that while Matheson is certainly a capable defender, NJ needs a defender more defensively biased than Matheson was described.

 

[My3Sons]

He will get traded at the TD to the highest bidder because he will be replaced by Hutson and Mailloux.

That may be but I don't think it will be for a lottery pick.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I'm not advocating they do. I agree you have to keep some competent veterans in place to avoid exposing the kids to overwork and situations they have no familiarity with right off the jump. My only real point was that while Matheson is certainly a capable defender, NJ needs a defender more defensively biased than Matheson was described.

I understand. I was specifically replying to this part of your post

« If he was worth a top ten lottery pick dont' you think Montreal would have traded him already? »

 

[Chose]

Apparently, the Wild is looking for a Top4 LH PMD.
Would you trade him for the 13th overall ?
At his salary, he makes sense for the Wild...

Mike Matheson intéresse le Wild du Minnesota

Le Wild du Minnesota veut faire les séries dès l'an prochain.

hockey30.com

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You either highly overrated Guhle or underrated Kakko. Take your pick.

Laf for the rangers is like slaf being available for the Habs. It’s a non-starter and a waste of oxygen….

You either overrate Kakko or underrate Guhle. Which is it?

Kakko's value has plummeted. That said., NYR are better off holding onto Kakko for now. They won't get a Guhle-level of player in return. That's just preposterous.

Perhaps Kakko + 2nd for Nemec?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Apparently, the Wild is looking for a Top4 LH PMD.
Would you trade him for the 13th overall ?
At his salary, he makes sense for the Wild...

Mike Matheson intéresse le Wild du Minnesota

Le Wild du Minnesota veut faire les séries dès l'an prochain.

hockey30.com

Why would the Wild trade a 13th OA for Mike Matheson?

 

[jfhabs]

Some Montreal fans talked about Matheson as a power play guy or scoring guy. NJ doesn't need that. They need a guy who is defense first and just not a grenade handler. Beyond that, we fundamentally disagree on the real world value of a guy like Matheson. If he was worth a top ten lottery pick dont' you think Montreal would have traded him already?

,-Don't think the Devil's should do it either, bit the value was off on the proposal that included Matheson at 50% + Wpg 1st vs NJ 1st.
-Montreal didn't have retention spot available.
-11 is not top 10 and not all top 10 are equals, there's a significant gap between each selection historically.

For a top ten pick it's a no brainer. At 50% , with a pick in the teens, you really need to like the guy you draft because your chances of getting a player of the same level are very slim.

 

[My3Sons]

,-Don't think the Devil's should do it either, bit the value was off on the proposal that included Matheson at 50% + Wpg 1st vs NJ 1st.
-Montreal didn't have retention spot available.
-11 is not top 10 and not all top 10 are equals, there's a significant gap between each selection historically.

For a top ten pick it's a no brainer. At 50% , with a pick in the teens, you really need to like the guy you draft because your chances of getting a player of the same level are very slim.

The hf proposals are almost always more convoluted and fan fiction than what you see in reality. Teams rarely trade guys they don’t have to trade and when they do it’s typically for futures if it’s cap driven. Malcontents get traded for each other but how often are there real hockey trades anymore?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The hf proposals are almost always more convoluted and fan fiction than what you see in reality. Teams rarely trade guys they don’t have to trade and when they do it’s typically for futures if it’s cap driven. Malcontents get traded for each other but how often are there real hockey trades anymore?

It is becoming rare to find hockey trades these days. A lot has to do with the NTCs/NMCs. Players are starting to value location and stability over team competitiveness and money.

 

[General Fanager]

It’s the type of trade it would take…..
I’m high on Guhle. If he hits his potential, he should eat top pairing min. He might not be the play driver, but steady…..

From a NYR standpoint I think Kakko for Guhle as a base deal works for both teams as well.

Guhle hit the sophomore slump this season after having a very solid rookie year.

Kakko had terrible puck luck in his first 15 games or so and then got injured after putting up 40 even strength pts from 3rd line with no PP/pk opportunities or top 6 min with our most talented players. He plays a man’s game and has become a really good 2-way forward.

He would look great opposite Caufield or slaf in the Habs top 6 and on their PP/PK.

Gorton also took him 2 OA. I’m sure he’s very familiar with him.

Hopefully Guhle could settle in and become Fox s long term partner on LD in the next 2 seasons or so.
A top 4 of
Guhle-Fox
Miller-Schneider
Would be stellar for NY.

I believe it’s could be a win win for both teams…..

Mercer is solid FwD. he also plays a man’s game, similar to Kakko.

I believe it would take that type of piece for Montreal to consider moving Kaiden

Hmmm... maybe we should stay in the realm of reality and not fantasy land.

 

[My3Sons]

Hmmm... maybe we should stay in the realm of reality and not fantasy land.

But the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride is so much fun. So is the Dumbo ride.

 

[jay from jersey]

Hmmm... maybe we should stay in the realm of reality and not fantasy land.

I forgot Habs prospects are so much better than everyone else’s picks and young players.
That’s why they are on the cusp of being a Perennial powerhouse…

 

[jay from jersey]

You either overrate Kakko or underrate Guhle. Which is it?

Kakko's value has plummeted. That said., NYR are better off holding onto Kakko for now. They won't get a Guhle-level of player in return. That's just preposterous.

Perhaps Kakko + 2nd for Nemec?

Why has his value plummeted?
Hes been very good since the return from injury.

Last season he put up 40 even strength pts.

I don’t think NYR is jumping at moving him. But Kakko will likely only sign a 1 maybe 2 year deal with ny imo.

He’s going to want a chance at top 6 min and special teams time…

No one is arguing he’s had a dreadful first 15 games prior to injury, but you can take a look at his stats since return.
For whatever reason, he doesn’t mix well with Zibby/kreider.
Rangers won’t break up laf/tro/bread, so atm he’s kind of stuck in limbo on 3rd line.
The best case scenario would be him coming to camp next year and somehow finding chemistry with Zibby/kreids, but it’s quite possible if he only signs a 1yr deal rangers will look to move him for a defenseman.

Guhle also didn’t have a great year. Not as good as his rookie showing.
That doesn’t totally tank his value….
But i
Kakko injuries tanks his???

 

[bud12]

Why has his value plummeted?
Hes been very good since the return from injury.

Last season he put up 40 even strength pts.

I don’t think NYR is jumping at moving him. But Kakko will likely only sign a 1 maybe 2 year deal with ny imo.

He’s going to want a chance at top 6 min and special teams time…

No one is arguing he’s had a dreadful first 15 games prior to injury, but you can take a look at his stats since return.
For whatever reason, he doesn’t mix well with Zibby/kreider.
Rangers won’t break up laf/tro/bread, so atm he’s kind of stuck in limbo on 3rd line.
The best case scenario would be him coming to camp next year and somehow finding chemistry with Zibby/kreids, but it’s quite possible if he only signs a 1yr deal rangers will look to move him for a defenseman.

Guhle also didn’t have a great year. Not as good as his rookie showing.
That doesn’t totally tank his value….
But i
Kakko injuries tanks his???

Cool, they can keep him. Guhle is worth way more than him.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Why has his value plummeted?
Hes been very good since the return from injury.

Last season he put up 40 even strength pts.

I don’t think NYR is jumping at moving him. But Kakko will likely only sign a 1 maybe 2 year deal with ny imo.

He’s going to want a chance at top 6 min and special teams time…

No one is arguing he’s had a dreadful first 15 games prior to injury, but you can take a look at his stats since return.
For whatever reason, he doesn’t mix well with Zibby/kreider.
Rangers won’t break up laf/tro/bread, so atm he’s kind of stuck in limbo on 3rd line.
The best case scenario would be him coming to camp next year and somehow finding chemistry with Zibby/kreids, but it’s quite possible if he only signs a 1yr deal rangers will look to move him for a defenseman.

Guhle also didn’t have a great year. Not as good as his rookie showing.
That doesn’t totally tank his value….
But i
Kakko injuries tanks his???

Why has his value plummeted? Seriously? lol

 

[jay from jersey]

Why has his value plummeted? Seriously? lol

I wouldn’t trade a top 5 pick for him. Hasn’t performed to 2 OA star status but Kakko is a damn good nhler with room and potential to improve.

As does Guhle, but he’s never going to be a Fox/makar/hughes type of D.

If he tops out, he could be a 1st pair partner for one of those guys maybe.

Kakko has already scored 40 pts at even strength and performed well in playoffs.

It’s not really a stretch to say he can be a 55-60pt 2-way winger with a better opportunity elsewhere….

Granted, Kakko may not have top 5 draft billing, but I’m failing to see what Guhle has done to be worth “ far more” then Kakko.

or Mercer for that matter