Proposal: MTL & NJ

[Junohockeyfan]

This just show that ev stat are directly related to the team you play for. Good team will have better ev stats. Like gaa for goalies. I wouldn't put much stock into it

Exactly, its like +/-. Its a team-based stat. Put Mercer on the Habs and he would have far less EV points than he had with the Devils.

 

[dgibb10]

This just show that ev stat are directly related to the team you play for. Good team will have better ev stats. Like gaa for goalies. I wouldn't put much stock into it

Other way around. Teams are good because they have players who can produce even strength.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Other way around. Teams are good because they have players who can produce even strength.

Yet the Devils were a non-playoff team. Because their players are not good? Mercer with the second worst +/- on the Devils. Yet his EV points matter?

Put Mercer on the Habs and he produces far less EV points. Especially with Dvorak as his C.

 

[dgibb10]

Yet the Devils were a non-playoff team. Because their players are not good? Mercer with the second worst +/- on the Devils. Yet his EV points matter?

Mercer had a down year. Again, Newhook wasn't good in his age 22 season, neither was Dach.

Neither had come CLOSE to a season as good as Mercer's age 21 season where he scored 27 goals and 57 points, despite not having PP1 time.

Yet the Devils were a non-playoff team. Because their players are not good? Mercer with the second worst +/- on the Devils. Yet his EV points matter?

Put Mercer on the Habs and he produces far less EV points. Especially with Dvorak as his C.

Except Mercer would have been playing PP1 and 1st line wing all year. So his C would have been Suzuki

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Mercer had a down year. Again, Newhook wasn't good in his age 22 season, neither was Dach.

Neither had come CLOSE to a season as good as Mercer's age 21 season where he scored 27 goals and 57 points, despite not having PP1 time.


Except Mercer would have been playing PP1 and 1st line wing all year. So his C would have been Suzuki

Dach was good in his 21 year old season producing at a 54pt pace but his season was cut short by injuries. He established himself as a bonafide 2C by the end of the year.

Mercer had a down season. That is true. On the Habs, his C would have been Dvorak. He would not have gotten icetime on the top line because he didn't deserve it.

I mean, Newhook outproduced him in 27 less games playing with SCRUBS as a C!!!! Newhook is a better winger than he is a C. And Newhook didn't get the top-line duties. Slaf did!

 

[dgibb10]

Dach was good in his 21 year old season producing at a 54pt pace but his season was cut short by injuries. He established himself as a bonafide 2C by the end of the year.

Mercer had a down season. That is true. On the Habs, his C would have been Dvorak. He would not have gotten icetime on the top line because he didn't deserve it.

I mean, Newhook outproduced him in 27 less games playing with SCRUBS!!!!

Kirby Dach had 18 even strength points in his age 22 season.

There's no point discussing hockey with someone who's analysis doesn't go deeper than PPG

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Kirby Dach had 18 even strength points in his age 22 season.

There's no point discussing hockey with someone who's analysis doesn't go deeper than PPG

There's no point discussing hockey with someone who only watches stats and not games. If you think Dach was not a 2C quality player at the end the prior season, then you clearly did not watch any Habs games.

Stat watching is misleading as Team quality factors highly into it.

Mercer was crap this season and you can't admit it! You just cherry pick stats to build a false argument. That's sad. You can't get past your bias.

And putting all that aside, the topic was Mercer for Guhle? f*** no. Habs would never ever do that and you know it!! I think you admitted it.

 

[bud12]

Mercer had a down year. Again, Newhook wasn't good in his age 22 season, neither was Dach.

Neither had come CLOSE to a season as good as Mercer's age 21 season where he scored 27 goals and 57 points, despite not having PP1 time.


Except Mercer would have been playing PP1 and 1st line wing all year. So his C would have been Suzuki

Maybe on the pp1 but he wouldn't play on the 1st line.

 

[Xirik]

There's no point discussing hockey with someone who only watches stats and not games. If you think Dach was not a 2C quality player at the end the prior season, then you clearly did not watch any Habs games.

Stat watching is misleading as Team quality factors highly into it.

Mercer was crap this season and you can't admit it! You just cherry pick stats to build a false argument. That's sad. You can't get past your bias.

And putting all that aside, the topic was Mercer for Guhle? f*** no. Habs would never ever do that and you know it!! I think you admitted it.

Just like how Meier played like a top line winger since slightly before the Ruff firing till the end of the season.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Just like how Meier played like a top line winger since slightly before the Ruff firing till the end of the season.

I think Timo definitely turned it around in his last 20 games or so. He still had a disappointing season as he's paid to be a consistent PPG player.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Just like how Meier played like a top line winger since slightly before the Ruff firing till the end of the season.

I thought Timo played through two MCL sprain at the same time this year? That is bound to affect your production

 

[dgibb10]

I thought Timo played through two MCL sprain at the same time this year? That is bound to affect your production

He did and also wasn't on PP1 most of the year, but for some people context beyond 1 year point totals is impossible.

Outside of the stretch in december playing with the MCL sprains, he had a 36 goal, 72 point pace.

Maybe on the pp1 but he wouldn't play on the 1st line.

Coming off a 27 goal 57 point year, yes he would have to start the year. And imo, alongside Suzuki and Caufield, he would have kept it. Josh Anderson started the year with that job.

 

[Xirik]

I thought Timo played through two MCL sprain at the same time this year? That is bound to affect your production

and an Oblique injury, Jack had a bum shoulder.

 

[dgibb10]

This just show that ev stat are directly related to the team you play for. Good team will have better ev stats. Like gaa for goalies. I wouldn't put much stock into it

Mercer had pretty excellent even strength numbers as a teenager on the 21-22 devils who were bottom 5 in the league

 

[Baksfamous112]

He did and also wasn't on PP1 most of the year, but for some people context beyond 1 year point totals is impossible.

Outside of the stretch in december playing with the MCL sprains, he had a 36 goal, 72 point pace.


Coming off a 27 goal 57 point year, yes he would have to start the year. And imo, alongside Suzuki and Caufield, he would have kept it. Josh Anderson started the year with that job.

MCL takes longer than a month to fully heal and there’s always the mental blockage to go over where you’re afraid to get hurt again.

I’m not exactly sure how this thread discussion went to Meier but knowing what he played through he looks to have had a good season overall, especially if both knees were hurt at the same time

 

[dgibb10]

There's no point discussing hockey with someone who only watches stats and not games. If you think Dach was not a 2C quality player at the end the prior season, then you clearly did not watch any Habs games.

Stat watching is misleading as Team quality factors highly into it.

Mercer was crap this season and you can't admit it! You just cherry pick stats to build a false argument. That's sad. You can't get past your bias.

And putting all that aside, the topic was Mercer for Guhle? f*** no. Habs would never ever do that and you know it!! I think you admitted it.

Kirby Dach had awful results outside of a stretch on Caufield and Suzuki's wing.

If you saw Dach struggle as a C and succeed as a passenger winger and tricked yourself into seeing a 2C, idk what to tell you

MCL takes longer than a month to fully heal and there’s always the mental blockage to go over where you’re afraid to get hurt again.

I’m not exactly sure how this thread discussion went to Meier but knowing what he played through he looks to have had a good season overall, especially if both knees were hurt at the same time

Meier has been frankly excellent since getting healthy. I haven't had a complaint about him in months.

 

[Baksfamous112]

and an Oblique injury, Jack had a bum shoulder.

It was noticeable for Jack. I have a *5 years dynasty pool* with some friends and one of them had Jack and we discussed it through the year. He was not the same player as when the season started and there was obviously something wrong with him. I told him in January that I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a shoulder surgery this summer

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Kirby Dach had awful results outside of a stretch on Caufield and Suzuki's wing.

If you saw Dach struggle as a C and succeed as a passenger winger and tricked yourself into seeing a 2C, idk what to tell you

That's fine. You are admitting that you didn't watch Dach close the season driving play as the 2C.

So when Dach, Newhook and Slaf get points, its as passengers. When Holtz and Mercer get points this season, its as play driving EV monsters. Ditto Nemec! lol

That's pretty much how you see it.

I am guessing in a re-draft you take Casey over Hutson as well!

 

[Baksfamous112]

Kirby Dach had awful results outside of a stretch on Caufield and Suzuki's wing.

If you saw Dach struggle as a C and succeed as a passenger winger and tricked yourself into seeing a 2C, idk what to tell you


Meier has been frankly excellent since getting healthy. I haven't had a complaint about him in months.

You clearly have not watched Dach the last ~25 games last year and pre-season this year. Mark my word, you will be overly impressed with Dach next year. He was better than Suzuki on most night to end the season and by far our best and most dangerous forward while he was still healthy. It’s kinda sad that we didn’t get to see more from him this year but he’s going to surprise a lot of people next year.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You clearly have not watched Dach the last ~25 games last year and pre-season this year. Mark my word, you will be overly impressed with Dach next year. He was better than Suzuki on most night to end the season and by far our best and most dangerous forward while he was still healthy. It’s kinda sad that we didn’t get to see more from him this year but he’s going to surprise a lot of people next year.

Don't waste your time. He watched the stats. That's all he goes by.

 

[dgibb10]

Don't waste your time. He watched the stats. That's all he goes by.

Ironic considering your entire analysis comes from basic point totals.

 

[bud12]

He did and also wasn't on PP1 most of the year, but for some people context beyond 1 year point totals is impossible.

Outside of the stretch in december playing with the MCL sprains, he had a 36 goal, 72 point pace.


Coming off a 27 goal 57 point year, yes he would have to start the year. And imo, alongside Suzuki and Caufield, he would have kept it. Josh Anderson started the year with that job.

Maybe he would have started it. But with the way he played this year, he would have lose it to Slaf like Anderson did. But it's all speculation at this point. And for the thread about Guhle vs Mercer, the habs management would not even think about it.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Don't waste your time. He watched the stats. That's all he goes by.

We’re all guilty of that. No one has time to watch a tons of hockey. I’m lucky enough to have low bowl season tickets so I do get to see a lot of hockey live. It’s such a different game and some players are sometimes more noticeable (or sometimes less) while watching tv compared to live as well

 

[dgibb10]

That's fine. You are admitting that you didn't watch Dach close the season driving play as the 2C.

So when Dach, Newhook and Slaf get points, its as passengers. When Holtz and Mercer get points this season, its as play driving EV monsters. Ditto Nemec! lol

That's pretty much how you see it.

I am guessing in a re-draft you take Casey over Hutson as well!

Nemec is a dman. I wouldn't really describe any dmen as "play drivers"

Mercer is a net driving scorer who can play drive and create from himself.

Holtz is a sniper. Not a play driver.

But yes they all do most of their damage at even strength. Because NJD goes to: Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Hamilton, Hughes, Toffoli first.

What you consistently fail to understand is that you can only have so many PP spots available.

If you put 10 guys who are all mediocre PP1 guys getting 20 PP points on a team to, it won't result in twice as many power play points. It will be 1 mid power play and 5 guys who no longer get that time.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Ironic considering your entire analysis comes from basic point totals.

My analysis comes from actually watching the players play in games. When it comes to stats, point production is the most important stat. You on the other hand demonstrated that you don't watch any Habs hockey. Your opinion of Dach is proof. Your opinion of Slaf is proof.

EV stats are what you use to make excuses for a player who didn't produce or diminish a Habs player who did produce offensively. That's basically all you have been quoting.

You can't admit that Newhook was a much better player than Mercer this season. You can't admit that Lane Hutson was a better player Casey in college. You can't admit that Timo Meier had a disappointing season (despite good reasons for his hampered production).

You just make excuses by cherry picking useless stats that don't tell the story.

Nemec is a dman. I wouldn't really describe any dmen as "play drivers"

Mercer is a net driving scorer who can play drive and create from himself.

Holtz is a sniper. Not a play driver.

But yes they all do most of their damage at even strength.

What you consistently fail to understand is that you can only have so many PP spots available.

If you put 10 guys who are all mediocre PP1 guys getting 20 PP points on a team to, it won't result in twice as many power play points. It will be 1 mid power play and 5 guys who no longer get that time.

So Habs players that produced this season didn't get any points EV? Slaf? Newhook? Suzuki? Caufield?

This is just idiotic. Admit it - they had good seasons. They produced.

Just because Habs players like Slaf produced this season doesn't diminish Nemec. Why do you go out of your way to propose false theories just to prop up NJ players? Propping up Mercer to diminish Guhle. Its so immature and insecure!!