Most Prestigious KHL teams? (or teams with the greatest Mystique)

[Jussi]

I think maybe a better word, more accurate & descriptive than "prestigious" when considering the Leafs, Habs, Bruins, Red Wings or Chicago, the Rangers, HC CSKA Moscow, the Red Army Team, even clubs like Jokerit etc is "mystique". A certain "aura" & perception about them based on history & past glories. Even minor-pro teams like the Rochester Americans, the Cleveland Barons, San Diego Gulls, they all have a certain mystique, invoke images, great clubs no matter what level theyve played at. As the game is comprised & made up of players, and though the KHL is fairly new & recent, that league to me is indivisible from superb Russian hockey. Yes they have imports but at its core, uniquely Russian. In-built mystique & prestige that if your playing in that league at all, your a damn good player. Its certainly "different" from the NHL and they have a ways to go to catch up to that leagues prestigious preeminence as the oldest & greatest professional league in the World but still, has that "mystique" about it. That undeniable Russian hockey vibe about it thats pretty hard to resist huh?

The only mystique about Jokerit is how the hell can you play in the biggest arena in the league and only win the title ONCE in 17 years you've played in it?

 

[Killion]

The only mystique about Jokerit is how the hell can you play in the biggest arena in the league and only win the title ONCE in 17 years you've played in it?

Ya, but the uniforms Jussi. The name & logo. Awesome. ... and Ilves, Tappara, TPS, HIFK. Mystique.

 

[Exarz]

If I understand European sports culture, prestige often comes with age. So an old club that has been around for a decade is often regarded as prestigious.

And if the same club has won a lot of titles and been a top club for many years, this adds to its prestige.

And if the club is very popular this also adds to its prestige.

So the most important is:
1. A long history/Old team
2. Many victories
3. Being popular

Am I right?

I'd say it's


1. Being popular - The more popular a team is, the more "rivalry" and prestige there is to beat them
2. A long history with many victories - I consider these clubs as "classic" clubs, who have had or who has a dynasty with a lot of titles. They should be a bit popular as well

 

[ozo]

I'm a big history sucker and I think there's only one or two teams, that get any credit for being historic names among similarly minded KHL fans. CSKA is the obvious one and weirdly enough Dinamo Riga is the next one that comes to mind even though there's no historic continuity between current Dinamo and the Soviet one. That said I haven't followed Dynamo Moskva enough, but I suspect that they get plenty of credit as well.

 

[quartus]

And yet, they haven't achieved anything in the KHL. When I think about the most prestigious clubs of the KHL Slovan sure as hell doesn't come to mind.

But you count the Russian clubs because of what they did in the past and their age?

Doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

 

[SoundAndFury]

But you count the Russian clubs because of what they did in the past and their age?

Doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

I count Russian clubs for what they are now, first and foremost. That's why Spartak, no matter how good they were back in the day, isn't on my list while Ak Bars are. I think I've already mentioned this numerous times, age alone doesn't say anything.

 

[Den]

So this is the Russian O6... the teams whose prestige are similar to that of NHL teams.

The Soviet historical "O6" are
CSKA
Spartak
Krylya Sovetov
Dynamo M
Khimik
Dynamo R

 

[maclean]

i think another aspect of a 'classic' team is that it has many fans from outside its geographical base. original six teams have much broader fanbases than newer teams. you're probably not going to find too many fans of, say, carolina, spread around the country, but there are leafs and habs fans all over canada even if their city has its own team now

 

[Atas2000]

However, is my impression anywhere near the reality?

Not with SKA. SKA is a pretty young franchise on the top level. Don't have the history of CSKA at all. They are the Rags of the KHL. Deep pockets, big ambitions, nothing to show for it so far. To put it into perspective: if there is an expensive superstar available on the market(or even if he's not available) the talk goes he'll end up with SKA. 80% of them do end up with SKA.

If you talk about history the problem in the KHL is that many storied franchises never made it to the KHL(Khimik, Krylya Sovetov(Soviet Wings)) or don't have the financial means to be succesfull now(Spartak).

So if you talk about the big names of the past it's: CSKA, Dynamo Moscow, Spartak, Krylya Sovetov. The Moscow teams which lured talent from all over the country. The other prominent team from the soviet era: Khimik Voskresensk, Dinamo Riga, Sokol Kiev, Torpedo Gorkiy(now Nizhniy Novgorod)

After the soviet system was gone the schools that produced the players who would continuously reinforce the Moscow teams became the foundation for the new powerhouses which now thrive in the KHL such as: Omsk, Magnitogorsk, Yaroslavl, Nizhniy Novgorod, Togliatti(fell apart, but supposed to be in the KHL soon), Chelyabinsk(took them longer to rise due to finance troubles, and the talent drain is the killer).

The Moscow teams on the contrary fell off the face of the Earth in a way. Until Dynamo and now CSKA found some financial support(well, Dynamo actually always managed to be good even through the rough times). The thing is they still have the schools that produce talent along with spartak which is actually bankrupt but their MHL team recently won the Kharlamov Cup(MHL top trophy) in game 7 against CSKA youth "Red Army".

Now Dynamo and CSKA have the money to compete and Spartak is in limbo.

And then there are the franchises which of course weren't built from the scratch, but actually never were near the top in soviet times. That would be SKA, Salavat Yulaev Ufa and AkBars. With financial support those teams not only built KHL teams, but also youth hockey schools which are now producing a decent amount of talent.

As you can see, due the upheavals of the 90's the is no consistency with all this. New teams grew to prominence and some faded.

 

[Atas2000]

The Soviet historical "O6" are
CSKA
Spartak
Krylya Sovetov
Dynamo M
Khimik
Dynamo R

You can count Sokol Kiev in too.

 

[Atas2000]

wow, there we can see the soviet system in full works i guess. But on the other end it is 68 years ago so it does not matter when it comes to prestige.

Not really. You have to understand the soviet sports system as a whole. Those teams were not created from the scratch in 1946. The championship was created. The teams were mostly recruited from existing bandy teams. And CSKA, Dynamo, Spartak and some others were so called sports societies around the whole country divided by affiliation with some industry or organization like the army for CSKA. It's not like in 1946 somebody created something out of nothing. The hockey tournament was established officially and those huge sports societies were obviusly the ones able to create teams from within(mostly from bandy teams as I wrote).

 

[Atas2000]

This. They're the only team besides Dynamo Moscow to win the Gagarin Cup twice.

If only we'd stick top our finns and not let Zaripov walk...

 

[obskyr]

Soviet hockey had a very definite Big 4: CSKA, Dynamo, Spartak and Krylya Sovetov. Then there was a bunch of classic top division underdogs (Voskresensk, Chelyabinsk, Riga, Leningrad, Gorky, Kiev) that somehow managed to medal during the years of total Muscovite domination, accompanied with a few more bottom-dwelling extras (Sibir, Avtomobilist, Salavat et al). So, in all fairness, the only Russian franchises that could somewhat fit on the O-Six gravitas are the Moscow 4. But the two post-soviet decades also affected their legacy in a drastic way, only Dynamo was able to retain its elite status. The 90s and 00s hockey powerhouses (Metallurg, Avangard, Lokomotiv, Ak Bars) all had some sort of a nouveau riche vibe in the historical context, while most of the old Soviet championship teams (like SKA or Traktor) back then were at their lowest.

I'm not sure how all of it translates to the KHL, it's a new league that now has very prominent non-Soviet / non-Russian franchises like Slovan and Jokerit.

 

[obskyr]

Not with SKA. SKA is a pretty young franchise on the top level.

No, it is not. It has been on the top level of Soviet and Russian hockey for six straight decades. It was a medal contender when a half of the KHL clubs were just amateur factory teams with silly names like "Moisei Uritsky Sports Club" and "Caoutchouc".

 

[Atas2000]

No, it is not. It has been on the top level of Soviet and Russian hockey for six straight decades. It was a medal contender when a half of the KHL clubs were just amateur factory teams with silly names like "Moisei Uritsky Sports Club" and "Rubber".

We're talking about legends here. The never were contenders, even if they were in the Vysshaya Liga. I also havent mentioned a lot of teams who were in that top league. Teams like Khimik were challenging the CSKA or Moscow hegemony for that matter.

Larionov, Lomakin, Zelepukin, Kamensky, Berezin, Andrei Markov, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Lyapkin, Ragulin(can still be considered). That's a damn impressive list of products for a small town of Voskresensk.

No, I wouldn't put SKA on that list.

 

[obskyr]

We're talking about legends here. The never were contenders, even if they were in the Vysshaya Liga. I also havent mentioned a lot of teams who were in that top league. Teams like Khimik were challenging the CSKA or Moscow hegemony for that matter.

Larionov, Lomakin, Zelepukin, Kamensky, Berezin, Andrei Markov, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Lyapkin, Ragulin(can still be considered). That's a damn impressive list of products for a small town of Voskresensk.

No, I wouldn't put SKA on that list.

To be perfectly honest, no other non-Moscow team in the Soviet championship had ever been as consistently competitive as Epstein's Khimik, you can't really compare it to anything. Still, for whatever reson, you also placed Sokol and Torpedo up there, the teams that were more or less on the SKA level.

 

[Finnpin]

The only mystique about Jokerit is how the hell can you play in the biggest arena in the league and only win the title ONCE in 17 years you've played in it?

"Mystique" = The logo was voted best outside of NHL in THN plus Jokerit might be the most well known european hockey team in North America. Many have said it.

 

[Jussi]

"Mystique" = The logo was voted best outside of NHL in THN plus Jokerit might be the most well known european hockey team in North America. Many have said it.

In the 90's.

I'm fairly certain MoDo or ZSKa or Dynamo Moscow are more well known European team names. Though I think we all know they know very few teams/names in general.

 

[Finnpin]

I fairly certain MoDo or ZSKa or Dynamo Moscow are more well known European team names. Though I think we all know they know very teams/names in general.

When NHL teams were playing in Europe many NHL team members said that Jokerit is the most known.

 

[Jussi]

When NHL teams were playing in Europe many NHL team members said that Jokerit is the most known.

PR talk. Of course they're going to praise their hosts.

 

[Finnpin]

PR talk. Of course they're going to praise their hosts.

PR or not, there is also seed of truth in it.

 

[Killion]

PR talk. Of course they're going to praise their hosts.

PR or not, there is also seed of truth in it.

Yep, quite true Finnpin. Id heard of Jokerit (name kinda jumps out at ya, nifty logo as well) back in the 60's in Toronto when it was formed; earlier the older clubs Ilves & HIFK Helsinki, more so thereafter due to Carl Brewers involvement with that club & of course the National Team. The area of Toronto I grew up in, a few Finnish families actually, their kids excellent hockey players & good friends so I was luck enough to have learned about the game over there a bit & its history..... and of course how to swear fluently in Finnish. Most helpful.

 

[Jussi]

Yep, quite true Finnpin. Id heard of Jokerit (name kinda jumps out at ya, nifty logo as well) back in the 60's in Toronto when it was formed; earlier the older clubs Ilves & HIFK Helsinki, more so thereafter due to Carl Brewers involvement with that club & of course the National Team. The area of Toronto I grew up in, a few Finnish families actually, their kids excellent hockey players & good friends so I was luck enough to have learned about the game over there a bit & its history..... and of course how to swear fluently in Finnish. Most helpful.

Jokerit wasn't formed until 1967.

 

[Killion]

Jokerit wasn't formed until 1967.

Ya. What I said Jussi. "Late 60's" Jokerit entered Canadian Air Space. At least in my knick of the woods it did. On the Radar. Formed in 67 as you state. Remember seeing the winking Jester logo, thought that was pretty cool.

 

[Jussi]

Ya. What I said Jussi. "Late 60's" Jokerit entered Canadian Air Space. At least in my knick of the woods it did. On the Radar. Formed in 67 as you state. Remember seeing the winking Jester logo, thought that was pretty cool.

[Butthead voice] Uhhuh...That guy's old...[Butthead voice]