pei fan
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- Jan 3, 2004
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Roughneck said:5 Bobby Orr's + no goalie would probably beat 5 of anyone else and an average goalie.
Roughneck said:5 Bobby Orr's + no goalie would probably beat 5 of anyone else and an average goalie.
I have a hard time with the notion of complete player because some players where so damn good at their specialty,that the opposition altered their lineup to account for them. There was nothing incomplete about Lafleur,Gretzky,Lemieux etc., you don't have to check anyone when you always have the puck. I'm glad you mention Larry Robinson. Sometimes guys get pigeonholed into a great offensive d man,great checking winger,sniper,whatever. Larry was a great hockey player. One other thing about #19, take a look at Van Morrison's Moondance album and tell me he doesn't look like a young Larry Robinson.Chili said:Agree with alot of the names mentioned, in particular, Messier, Potvin Trottier and Bourque.
One name I didn't see who I would add...Larry Robinson. He dominated in several areas in his prime. He controled the front of the net, the corners, skated the puck up ice and generated alot of offence. And was one of the better fighters I've seen.
mcphee said:I have a hard time with the notion of complete player because some players where so damn good at their specialty,that the opposition altered their lineup to account for them. There was nothing incomplete about Lafleur,Gretzky,Lemieux etc., you don't have to check anyone when you always have the puck. I'm glad you mention Larry Robinson. Sometimes guys get pigeonholed into a great offensive d man,great checking winger,sniper,whatever. Larry was a great hockey player. One other thing about #19, take a look at Van Morrison's Moondance album and tell me he doesn't look like a young Larry Robinson.
mcphee said:I have a hard time with the notion of complete player because some players where so damn good at their specialty,that the opposition altered their lineup to account for them. There was nothing incomplete about Lafleur,Gretzky,Lemieux etc., you don't have to check anyone when you always have the puck.
See I disagree. Gretzky and Lemieux were, as you say, so ridiculously proficient at offense that they transcended the game; it was simply an entirely different game when they were on the ice. That is not to suggest that they were stiffs in other aspects of the game, not at all. But it also does not equate to them being as proficient as other players in other aspects, as all around. Gretzky himself (ever the modest person) suggested at one time that Trottier was the most complete player in the game at that time. No one would ever argue who was the more dominant. But there is a difference.
Regardless, Bobby Orr is the most complete player I ever saw. And the greatest ever, period.
One other thing about #19, take a look at Van Morrison's Moondance album and tell me he doesn't look like a young Larry Robinson.
GREAT album.
Ogopogo,Ogopogo said:I think, when we get to Heaven, God will show us how great Orr would have been with healthy knees. How great Lemieux would have been without cancer and a bad back. How many cups the Oilers would have won if Pocklington didn't sell Gretzky.
Then again, Heaven might be so amazing we may no longer care.
Ogopogo said:How many cups the Oilers would have won if Pocklington didn't sell Gretzky.
I agree. I'd be a fool to argue Larry against Orr. IMO, no one compares to Orr. I was just glad to see him mentionned, always one of my favorites,class guy,class player.Big Phil said:Robinson was good and he deserves to be up in there but he's not in the same league as Orr by any means. He was very good defensively and offensively he could carry the puck into the zone like any good d-man could. He also won the Norris in '77 and '80. He did everything good that's for sure but he didnt do everything GREAT the way Orr did. Robinson might be in the top ten list for most complete players ever but he's no Orr or Howe.
Trottier said:
chooch said:lol; what happened in 86? playing in a weak run and gun conference (remember those series against the BlackHawks and Murray Bananaman, where 99 and the Oielrs would rack up 44 goals in 5 games?) they're tied in the 3rd period of a 7th game against a team who woudl lose in 5 game in the finals.
Guy Lafleur never let the Habs down in their great years especially in the 7th game against the Bruins. No Miracle on Manchesters there.
btw 99 wanted to go to a richer team to boost his salary. he didnt get "sold" by big bad peter. Thats another 99 myth.
If you and Chooch are bickering up there, I'm going to brave the eternal fires.Ogopogo said:I think, when we get to Heaven, God will show us how great Orr would have been with healthy knees. How great Lemieux would have been without cancer and a bad back. How many cups the Oilers would have won if Pocklington didn't sell Gretzky.
Then again, Heaven might be so amazing we may no longer care.
emmjayb said:Can't resist any longer. Trottier does not belong in this group... not even close. Yes, he was a very good all-around player for a decent period of time, but, just for example, I would rate Bobby Clarke better than Trottier in terms of leadership, toughness, playmaking and defense.... and very close in scoring... and I'm not saying Bobby Clarke deserves to be on the list either... just provding some evidence for my opinion. In his prime, Lindros might also warrant consideration... though I acknowledge defensively he may not have been on par. Really, there are too many to name, but Orr would have to be on anyone's list.
Big Phil said:Wow no love for Trottier eh? Why is that. He's often mentioned as the most all around player ever. Clarke is up there for sure but to me Clarke had too short of a prime. The Flyers won 2 Cups, and the Isles four straight. Not that it makes that much of a difference but Trottier was no wuss either when it came to the rough stuff. His high in goals was 50, his high in points was 134. Clarke's was 35, and 119 points. And Trottier could hit as good as he could score. Maybe Messier is on par with him but not Clarke IMO.
Big Phil said:Wow no love for Trottier eh? Why is that. He's often mentioned as the most all around player ever. Clarke is up there for sure but to me Clarke had too short of a prime. The Flyers won 2 Cups, and the Isles four straight. Not that it makes that much of a difference but Trottier was no wuss either when it came to the rough stuff. His high in goals was 50, his high in points was 134. Clarke's was 35, and 119 points. And Trottier could hit as good as he could score. Maybe Messier is on par with him but not Clarke IMO.
chooch said:I'd take Trotts up there with any centre in history in his prime. Its funny how Bossys rep has grown by retiring early and Trotts has suffered. His bankruptcy inspired comeback didnt help.
John Flyers Fan said:If Bossy didn't have to retire early he'd likely have finished with 800+ goals.
chooch said:Youre extrapolating a direct line; what if he tailed off like 99 did?
chooch said:lol; what happened in 86? playing in a weak run and gun conference (remember those series against the BlackHawks and Murray Bananaman, where 99 and the Oielrs would rack up 44 goals in 5 games?) they're tied in the 3rd period of a 7th game against a team who woudl lose in 5 game in the finals.
Guy Lafleur never let the Habs down in their great years especially in the 7th game against the Bruins. No Miracle on Manchesters there.
btw 99 wanted to go to a richer team to boost his salary. he didnt get "sold" by big bad peter. Thats another 99 myth.
chooch said:I'd take Trotts up there with any centre in history in his prime. Its funny how Bossys rep has grown by retiring early and Trotts has suffered. His bankruptcy inspired comeback didnt help.
somebody mentioned the hit on Gainey - it was a pure cheap shot and he got a well deserved 5 minute penalty. Anyone remember the big hit on a Rockie (Spruce?) where he flew into the boards and crunched the player separating his shoulder?
I didnt see a lot of Islander games except in eth playoffs but I thought Potvin and Trottier were the best players followed by Bossy, Sutter and Smith. But again Bossy has a sterling rep post retirement. I basically thought of him as the Shutt of NYI.
chooch said:Youre extrapolating a direct line; what if he tailed off like 99 did?
chooch said:I didnt see a lot of Islander games except in eth playoffs but I thought Potvin and Trottier were the best players followed by Bossy, Sutter and Smith. But again Bossy has a sterling rep post retirement. I basically thought of him as the Shutt of NYI.