Book Feature Mosienko: The Man Who Caught Lightning In A Bottle (by Ty Dilello)

[nabby12]

Hello all,

I'm happy to answer any questions about my latest book "Mosienko: The Man Who Caught Lightning in A Bottle". The book can be purchased at book stores across the prairies, online places like Amazon, and the publisher Great Plains' website.

In addition to Mosienko, this book also tells the story of Max and Doug Bentley. I travelled to Delisle, SK (Bentley's hometown) twice in the past year to stay with Max's son and get their family's story as well.

Mosienko became a hockey legend in 1952 when he recorded the fastest hat-trick in NHL history —a record that stands to this day. This biography tells the story of a Manitoba legend, from his childhood spent skating on the rinks of Winnipeg’s North End in the 1920s and 30s to his illustrious fourteen-year NHL career to his return to Winnipeg to play with the Winnipeg Warriors to his post-retirement career as the owner of the iconic Mosienko Bowling Lanes.

Through exclusive interviews with Mosienko’s friends, family, and teammates, Dilello paints a vivid picture of Mosienko, a man known for his sportsmanship and community spirit as well as his incredible hockey talent.

Mosienko | Ty Dilello| Great Plains Publications

“Mosienko: The Man Who Caught Lightning In A Bottle, is an engaging, informative read, I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the history of our game.” — George Grimm, Inside Hockey

“Mosienko’s Hall of Fame career has been largely forgotten. Thankfully, prolific author and noted historian Ty Dilello has gone a long ways to rectifying that long-standing oversight with his latest work, which tells the revealing story of not only the incredible night when the man nicknamed ‘Wee Willie’ recorded a hat trick in just 21 seconds–still the fastest trio of goals ever scored in an NHL game–but of a lifetime spent in hockey, as a player, a coach, an organizer, and a builder.” – Todd Denault, Author of Jacques Plante: The Man Who Changed the Face of Hockey

“Dilello’s latest book introduces all of us to the man behind the record—his modest hockey beginnings, his unusual path to the NHL, his outstanding career and his post-hockey life in a bowling alley.” – Kevin Shea, Author of Barilko: Without A Trace

“Ty Dilello knows the history of Manitoba hockey players, so who better to tell us Mosienko’s story? With access to old interviews (and his own new interviews with several old men!), Dilello explains how a child of immigrants growing up during the Great Depression became not just a Hockey Hall of Fame player but a great ambassador for the game in his hometown of Winnipeg.” – Eric Zweig, Author of Art Ross: The Hockey Legend Who Built The Bruins

Ty Dilello is the author of Golden Boys: The Top 50 Manitoba Hockey Players Of All Time. He is an accredited writer with the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) and is a member of the Society for International Hockey Research (SIHR). He has been a hockey fan since Peter Bondra led the Washington Capitals to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1998. Ty plays extensively on the World Curling Tour in the winter and can probably be found on a tennis court during the summer months. He lives in Winnipeg.

BOOK EXCERPT:

The Chicago Black Hawks picked Regina, Saskatchewan, to be the home for their training camp in the fall of 1945. Team president Bill Tobin had arranged for a preseason training junket of western Canada in an effort to popularize his team in that area.

It was during these preseason tests that Johnny Gottselig, who had succeeded Paul Thompson as manager and coach of the Hawks, created the Pony Line.

“Now that Mush March has retired,” Johnny told Max Bentley, “you and Doug have to fit in a new right winger, and I think we’ve got the answer in Bill Mosienko. He’s the nearest thing to Mush I’ve ever seen, and two years ago, he and Doug were terrific together. The three of you ought to set the league on fire.”

Max and Mosienko had played together briefly as Hawk rookies at Providence five years prior, so they were fairly familiar with each other’s style. Practice sessions quickly lent credence to Gottselig’s theory that Mosie would blend perfectly with the Bentleys. Though he, too, was on the small side, his dazzling speed and ability to take a pass in full flight indicated that, barring injuries, the Hawks would have one of the greatest lines in postwar hockey.

“With Doug and Mosie to pull the trigger,” Gottselig told Max, “you should set a new record for assists this year.”

Thus, the Pony Line was born. Right from the beginning, Gottselig truly believed his new line could outskate anyone in the league.

“We’ve got the most speed along with the Frenchmen,” he told a Chicago newspaper. “That top line of ours (Bentleys and Mosienko) is apt to skate away from everything in the league. Understand, I’m not predicting we’ll finish on top. Canadiens, Toronto, and Boston will be tough, but we’ll make ‘em play sixty minutes of hockey to beat us.”

The iconic name was given to the line by the team’s publicity director, Joe Farrell. Mosienko later recalled,

“It was because of our size. We were small. And every time we’d go for the puck, we’d give it a little bounce.” Once the trio was first linked together, the chemistry between them was undeniable. Bill became like another brother to Max and Doug. In the Hawks dressing room, Max always had to sit in the middle of Bill and Doug because of a superstition.

The Pony Line quickly electrified hockey fans around the circuit with their speed and dazzling passing plays. They were the key players in Johnny Gottselig’s determined efforts to have the Hawks make good on the “Lightning on Ice” motto expounded by Bill Tobin.

“Chicago fans like their hockey fast, and that’s what we’re going to give ‘em—speed to burn,” Tobin declared.

“The forward pass to the red line has increased the tempo of the game, and it should be great for the Bentleys and Mosie. We’re going to stick to our ‘Lightning on Ice’ motto, and we’re sure it will pay dividends.”
It did, too. The fast-flying Hawks, paced by their Pony Line, shattered all previous attendance records for their home ice and proved a magnetic drawing card all around the circuit.

The largest crowd to that point that ever saw an NHL season opener or league game on a weeknight—18,727—witnessed the postwar Black Hawks outscore the New York Rangers 5-1 at Chicago Stadium. It was estimated that 5,000 fans were turned away after standing room and rafter space had been exhausted.

Mosienko scored the last goal of the night at 5:32 of the final period. Eddie Wares took a long pass from the blueline, and Mosienko picked it up off the toes of goalie Sugar Jim Henry’s boots and converted for goal number five.

With the Pony Line buzzing early in the season, Chicago won five of their first seven games. As Gottselig had envisioned, Mosienko had fit in perfectly with the two Bentleys. Yet, making the plays for Doug and Mosie called for hair-trigger precision on Max’s part as the centreman.

Mosienko liked a hard, fast pass that he could take in full stride as he hit the blueline. Doug was the exact opposite. He preferred Max to hang on to the puck until they were over the enemy blueline, then flip through the defence. This gave Doug, cutting in fast, a chance to beat his man, pick up the puck and have only the goalie to beat.

“We were all so small,” Max Bentley later recalled of the Pony Line as he, Bill and Doug were all around 5'8", “but we were fast and worked so well together that it seemed like somebody was always open. If Doug wasn’t free, or Mosie wasn’t, I would be. Sometimes they’d both be hollering for the puck, and I’d divide up the passes to keep both of them happy.”

The Pony Line and the system the Hawks played under forced other teams to adapt or die. The Black Hawks were scoring 4.75 goals per game on average. According to Bill Tobin, this was accomplished by the simple procedure of sacrificing the defence for an overwhelming attack—like the boxer who takes a punch so that he can deliver two.

The magic number to the team’s success, coach Gottselig told the Chicago Tribune, was scoring four goals a game.

“The days of defensive hockey are gone,” explained Gottselig. “A goalie doesn’t have a chance in these days of five-man rushes, and I don’t care if he’s a second Chuck Gardiner or another George Hainsworth.”
For the two seasons that they were together, the Pony Line outscored every other line in the National Hockey League.

In their first season together, they topped the league as a line at season’s end with 159 points, 13 more than Montreal’s famous Punch Line of Maurice Richard, Elmer Lach, and Toe Blake. The next season, they had 75 goals and 104 assists for 120 points. Their 75 goals represented approximately 40 percent of the Hawks’ total of 193.

Although all three of them are known for their individual success, the Pony Line will always be remembered as one of the top scoring high-flying units in the history of hockey.

​

Click to read more...

 

[Theokritos]

Thanks for introducing your new book!

Todd Denault says that Mosienko's Hall of Fame career has been largely forgotten. Do you agree and if so, what would you say is the reason?

 

[nabby12]

Thanks for introducing your new book!

Todd Denault says that Mosienko's Hall of Fame career has been largely forgotten. Do you agree and if so, what would you say is the reason?

I certainly agree, but it's not just Mosienko. Pretty much every player from that era has been long forgotten except for Maurice Richard and Gordie Howe.

It's sad but people for whatever reason only care about the modern game and have little interest in anything pre-1970. One of the big reasons why I write these books is to get younger generations interested in hockey history.

 

[kaiser matias]

The excerpt above note the Hawks had training camp in Saskatchewan in an attempt to popularize the team out there. How do you think they did with that?

 

[nabby12]

The excerpt above note the Hawks had training camp in Saskatchewan in an attempt to popularize the team out there. How do you think they did with that?

At the time, the Chicago Black Hawks were the most Western NHL team so they really made an effort to hold training camps and exhibition games in the Midwest, Prairies, and Western Canada to promote their team as an option for kids growing up in those parts.

Here's another excerpt from the book that touches on that:

In the 1940s, Canadian teams certainly had a significant advantage in obtaining hockey talent. That’s why they won the most Stanley Cups in the Original Six era. Toronto and Montreal had a massive advantage over Detroit, Chicago, Boston, and New York, mainly because practically all worthwhile hockey talent came from Canadian rinks. There were exceptions to that, such as Frank Brimsek, Mike Karakas, and Johnny Mariucci, and those players were coming from northern towns in Minnesota, or Minneapolis or Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

The Canadian kids started young, and by the time they start showing real potential, they were scouted and signed by clubs like the Leafs and Canadiens.

Under organized hockey’s setup in those years, each club was entitled to a reserve list of forty players still in amateur hockey. Each of these players was pledged to the respective club. He was contacted first by a scout, or representative, in the open market. Naturally, the Canadian clubs were there first when a boy showed exceptional promise.

A good example of this monopoly of playing talent was shown in the Toronto organization. They sponsored amateur teams throughout Canada and minor league pro clubs such as Buffalo in the American League, Tulsa in the United States loop, and Hollywood in the Pacific Coast circuit.

This meant that the Maple Leafs constantly controlled 200 of the top amateurs playing on Canadian rinks. The Canadiens had a similar hold over the boys in Quebec.

Sure, the Black Hawks could have installed a similar farm system. In fact, in 1947, they had one with a pro team at Kansas City and sponsored amateur clubs in Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Moose Jaw. That gave them the right to place 160 amateurs on their reserve list.

But finding 160 prospects was the problem. Perhaps the Hawks needed better scouts and better contacts in Canada. But even then, it seemed doubtful that an American club could make too much headway against Canadian clubs.

So the Hawks were going to get the leftovers, except on rare occasions.

Doug Bentley had two tryouts with Boston but was called too frail and released. Paul Thompson, then manager of the Hawks, liked Doug and signed him to a contract. When he started clicking, Doug recommended his brothers, Max, and Reg.

Mosienko was, of course, recommended to the Hawks by Joe Cooper and promptly signed. And Mariucci through a friend, Larry Armstrong, coach of the University of Minnesota’s hockey squad.

The Hawks seemed to obtain its star players more by accident than by expert scouting.

In the end, the American teams took after the Canadian ones and started sponsoring minor hockey teams across Canada, mainly western Canada, so that they could get first dibs on top players. Teams like the Winnipeg Black Hawks, Winnipeg Rangers, etc. But they were still behind the eight ball in terms of acquiring prospects. It was an unfair game in those years and one that was later changed with the inception of the NHL Entry Draft in 1963.

 

[Theokritos]

@nabby12:

Bill Mosienko got his call up to the NHL during WW2. How much easier do you think the war made it for him to get his chance respectively how much did that impact his career vs how his career would likely have panned out if there was no war?

 

[nabby12]

@nabby12:

Bill Mosienko got his call up to the NHL during WW2. How much easier do you think the war made it for him to get his chance respectively how much did that impact his career vs how his career would likely have panned out if there was no war?

I think WW2 hurt Mosienko more then help him. He missed pretty much the entire 1942-43 season because he wasn't allowed to cross the US border and missed out on potentially winning the Calder Trophy.

Also, it's not like the War was the reason why Mosienko got his shot. He was an elite scoring talent that would have made the NHL and been a star player regardless if there was a War going or not. Although perhaps his stats in the first couple years of his career wouldn't have been so inflated if it wasn't for the War.

 

[Theokritos]

I think WW2 hurt Mosienko more then help him. He missed pretty much the entire 1942-43 season because he wasn't allowed to cross the US border and missed out on potentially winning the Calder Trophy.

Also, it's not like the War was the reason why Mosienko got his shot. He was an elite scoring talent that would have made the NHL and been a star player regardless if there was a War going or not. Although perhaps his stats in the first couple years of his career wouldn't have been so inflated if it wasn't for the War.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of war-related travel restrictions. Do you happen to know what the motive behind those restrictions were?

As successful the fast and gentlemanly Mosienko was on an individual level, he didn't have much team success with the Chicago Black Hawks. They were often at the bottom of the league and made the playoffs just three times during his career there: in 1944, 1946 and 1953. (Notably, the Pony Line with Mosienko and the Bentley Brothers was there for two out of those three seasons.) What went wrong for Chicago in the grand scheme?

 

[nabby12]

Interesting, I wasn't aware of war-related travel restrictions. Do you happen to know what the motive behind those restrictions were?

As successful the fast and gentlemanly Mosienko was on an individual level, he didn't have much team success with the Chicago Black Hawks. They were often at the bottom of the league and made the playoffs just three times during his career there: in 1944, 1946 and 1953. (Notably, the Pony Line with Mosienko and the Bentley Brothers was there for two out of those three seasons.) What went wrong for Chicago in the grand scheme?

The war-time travel restrictions were in place for a variety of reasons. But mainly it kept people from leaving their country to avoid having to join armed services. However, Mosienko tried to get into the army multiple times and was turned away each time. Deemed medically unfit by doctors... You'll have to buy the book for that one!

Regarding why the Black Hawks weren't successful, I already sort of touched on this in a previous post. Montreal and Toronto were the best teams because they got their pick of players in Canada. It was sheer luck how Chicago even acquired the Bentleys and Mosienko.

Here's an excerpt from the book that I previously posted above explaining how Chicago lacked the talent that the Canadian teams had:

In the 1940s, Canadian teams certainly had a significant advantage in obtaining hockey talent. That’s why they won the most Stanley Cups in the Original Six era. Toronto and Montreal had a massive advantage over Detroit, Chicago, Boston, and New York, mainly because practically all worthwhile hockey talent came from Canadian rinks. There were exceptions to that, such as Frank Brimsek, Mike Karakas, and Johnny Mariucci, and those players were coming from northern towns in Minnesota, or Minneapolis or Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

The Canadian kids started young, and by the time they start showing real potential, they were scouted and signed by clubs like the Leafs and Canadiens.

Under organized hockey’s setup in those years, each club was entitled to a reserve list of forty players still in amateur hockey. Each of these players was pledged to the respective club. He was contacted first by a scout, or representative, in the open market. Naturally, the Canadian clubs were there first when a boy showed exceptional promise.

A good example of this monopoly of playing talent was shown in the Toronto organization. They sponsored amateur teams throughout Canada and minor league pro clubs such as Buffalo in the American League, Tulsa in the United States loop, and Hollywood in the Pacific Coast circuit.

This meant that the Maple Leafs constantly controlled 200 of the top amateurs playing on Canadian rinks. The Canadiens had a similar hold over the boys in Quebec.

Sure, the Black Hawks could have installed a similar farm system. In fact, in 1947, they had one with a pro team at Kansas City and sponsored amateur clubs in Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Moose Jaw. That gave them the right to place 160 amateurs on their reserve list.

But finding 160 prospects was the problem. Perhaps the Hawks needed better scouts and better contacts in Canada. But even then, it seemed doubtful that an American club could make too much headway against Canadian clubs.

So the Hawks were going to get the leftovers, except on rare occasions.

Doug Bentley had two tryouts with Boston but was called too frail and released. Paul Thompson, then manager of the Hawks, liked Doug and signed him to a contract. When he started clicking, Doug recommended his brothers, Max, and Reg.

Mosienko was, of course, recommended to the Hawks by Joe Cooper and promptly signed. And Mariucci through a friend, Larry Armstrong, coach of the University of Minnesota’s hockey squad.

The Hawks seemed to obtain its star players more by accident than by expert scouting.

In the end, the American teams took after the Canadian ones and started sponsoring minor hockey teams across Canada, mainly western Canada, so that they could get first dibs on top players. Teams like the Winnipeg Black Hawks, Winnipeg Rangers, etc. But they were still behind the eight ball in terms of acquiring prospects. It was an unfair game in those years and one that was later changed with the inception of the NHL Entry Draft in 1963.

 

[Theokritos]

Regarding why the Black Hawks weren't successful, I already sort of touched on this in a previous post. Montreal and Toronto were the best teams because they got their pick of players in Canada.

It's understood that Montreal and Toronto had an advantage with their more direct access to the Canadian talent pool and you've spelled that out very nicely. But Detroit was also much more successful than Chicago during the period in question (4 Stanley Cups) and Boston too had a clear edge on the Black Hawks (two appearances in the final, finished ahead of them every single season but one, made the playoffs much more often). So I wonder if there are specific reasons one could point to that would help to explain why Chicago did considerably worse than four out of the five other NHL clubs.

 

[Sanf]

Do you think that Chicago did their best on trying to scout the Canadian side? I mean I have read lot about Black Hawks late 30´s scouting and team building and it was sometimes... well interesting.

Regarding Mosienko´s junior time teams did not have so much power to obtain players rights yet then. I know that Americans were already doing fine job in Manitoba in late 30´s... Their negotiation list included for example Bill Benson and Chuck Rayner which would have been gold for Black Hawks.

 

[nabby12]

It's understood that Montreal and Toronto had an advantage with their more direct access to the Canadian talent pool and you've spelled that out very nicely. But Detroit was also much more successful than Chicago during the period in question (4 Stanley Cups) and Boston too had a clear edge on the Black Hawks (two appearances in the final, finished ahead of them every single season but one, made the playoffs much more often). So I wonder if there are specific reasons one could point to that would help to explain why Chicago did considerably worse than four out of the five other NHL clubs.

I think one thing that comes to mind when comparing Detroit's success to Chicago's failures is the fact that James Norris owned both franchises.

Norris effectively used the Black Hawks as a farm team for Detroit, sometimes even trading players of value to Detroit to help them. And in turn, Chicago struggled because they were always second fiddle to Detroit in the owner's eyes as he was too busy helping his Red Wings win Stanley Cups.

Hard to imagine someone owning two team's in today's NHL...

Do you think that Chicago did their best on trying to scout the Canadian side? I mean I have read lot about Black Hawks late 30´s scouting and team building and it was sometimes... well interesting.

Regarding Mosienko´s junior time teams did not have so much power to obtain players rights yet then. I know that Americans were already doing fine job in Manitoba in late 30´s... Their negotiation list included for example Bill Benson and Chuck Rayner which would have been gold for Black Hawks.

Chicago was not very good at scouting Canadian talent in the 1930s and pretty much relied on dumb luck when it came to finding its star players. Mosienko was seen by a Black Hawks defenseman Joe Cooper on an outdoor rink who referred him to the Hawks manager, while the Bentleys were turned away by three or four other NHL teams before finally catching on at a Chicago training camp.

The New York Americans sometimes ran training camp in Winnipeg in the 1930s, so they got players like Rayner, Benson, Wilf Field, etc. Chicago held its camps primarily in Minnesota and Saskatchewan so while they focused on accumulating players from those regions, Manitoba was usually passed up until they sponsored the Winnipeg Black Hawks junior team in the late 1940s.

 

[Theokritos]

I think one thing that comes to mind when comparing Detroit's success to Chicago's failures is the fact that James Norris owned both franchises.

Norris effectively used the Black Hawks as a farm team for Detroit, sometimes even trading players of value to Detroit to help them. And in turn, Chicago struggled because they were always second fiddle to Detroit in the owner's eyes as he was too busy helping his Red Wings win Stanley Cups.

Hard to imagine someone owning two team's in today's NHL...



Chicago was not very good at scouting Canadian talent in the 1930s and pretty much relied on dumb luck when it came to finding its star players. Mosienko was seen by a Black Hawks defenseman Joe Cooper on an outdoor rink who referred him to the Hawks manager, while the Bentleys were turned away by three or four other NHL teams before finally catching on at a Chicago training camp.

Thanks, that goes a long way to explain how things panned out!

How would you rate Bill Mosienko in comparison with his linemates Max Bentley and Doug Bentley? I know Max Bentley is the most prominent of the three with his Hart trophy and consecutive scoring titles, but how about Doug Bentley?

 

[nabby12]

Thanks, that goes a long way to explain how things panned out!

How would you rate Bill Mosienko in comparison with his linemates Max Bentley and Doug Bentley? I know Max Bentley is the most prominent of the three with his Hart trophy and consecutive scoring titles, but how about Doug Bentley?

All three members of the Pony Line are Hockey Hall of Famers that have won individual major awards in the NHL.

Max gets the most attention of the bunch when ranking the all-time greatest players, more so than his brother Doug, although their careers are merely identical except for Max playing on the Leafs and winning those three Stanley Cups.

Doug's career you could say was just nearly as stellar. He was named to four NHL All-Star Teams in his career and was the scoring leader in points and goals in 1942–43 and again in goals in 1943–44.

This is a good thread comparing the careers of the Bentley brothers:
The Bentley Brothers

My personal ranking of the three would be:
1) Max Bentley
2) Doug Bentley
3) Bill Mosienko

They're all legends. Period. And legends from this era should be remembered and celebrated a hell of a lot better than they currently are.

 

[Sanf]

I think one thing that comes to mind when comparing Detroit's success to Chicago's failures is the fact that James Norris owned both franchises.

Norris effectively used the Black Hawks as a farm team for Detroit, sometimes even trading players of value to Detroit to help them. And in turn, Chicago struggled because they were always second fiddle to Detroit in the owner's eyes as he was too busy helping his Red Wings win Stanley Cups.

Hard to imagine someone owning two team's in today's NHL...



Chicago was not very good at scouting Canadian talent in the 1930s and pretty much relied on dumb luck when it came to finding its star players. Mosienko was seen by a Black Hawks defenseman Joe Cooper on an outdoor rink who referred him to the Hawks manager, while the Bentleys were turned away by three or four other NHL teams before finally catching on at a Chicago training camp.

The New York Americans sometimes ran training camp in Winnipeg in the 1930s, so they got players like Rayner, Benson, Wilf Field, etc. Chicago held its camps primarily in Minnesota and Saskatchewan so while they focused on accumulating players from those regions, Manitoba was usually passed up until they sponsored the Winnipeg Black Hawks junior team in the late 1940s.

Yeah it does seem like this. They did have decent western (yes in actual west not in Manitoba) scouts in Harry Scott who was former player and sports editor and I believe Tiny Thompson?. I have been slways more focused on goalies so can´t say about every player.

They did spend more money on trades than actually building a decent farm system. And was criticized of using farm just a burial ground for veterans rather than renewing their prospect pool. Their goalie managing was terrible. In 40´s they had Canadiens outcast and other minor league caliber goalies. Then big money for Brimsek which was fail. Then big trade for Lumley who wasn´t answer. Rollins first season overall was impressive considering few HHOFamers had failed to do what he did (and they had already Rollins before they used big money for Brimsek).

But looking it stats-wise wouldn´t this all help their top line? Obviously they would have changed invidual points for winning, but the teams offensive tactic (which you also mention) and disregarding back-checking to outscore opponents.

 

[sr edler]

Yeah it does seem like this. They did have decent western (yes in actual west not in Manitoba) scouts in Harry Scott who was former player and sports editor and I believe Tiny Thompson?. I have been slways more focused on goalies so can´t say about every player.

They did spend more money on trades than actually building a decent farm system. And was criticized of using farm just a burial ground for veterans rather than renewing their prospect pool. Their goalie managing was terrible. In 40´s they had Canadiens outcast and other minor league caliber goalies. Then big money for Brimsek which was fail. Then big trade for Lumley who wasn´t answer. Rollins first season overall was impressive considering few HHOFamers had failed to do what he did (and they had already Rollins before they used big money for Brimsek).

But looking it stats-wise wouldn´t this all help their top line? Obviously they would have changed invidual points for winning, but the teams offensive tactic (which you also mention) and disregarding back-checking to outscore opponents.

Black Hawks GM Bill Tobin had been a goalie out in the west though, in the 1920s Alberta with the Eskimos.

But Major McLaughlin was a very 'hands on' owner, so I guess it's hard to tell how much was McLaughlin and how much was Tobin, but I guess he must have listened something to Tobin. SIHR & Wikipedia aren't 100% in sync regarding time-lines or titles for Tobin's work in Chicago. First he was McLaughlin's assistant, then a coach, then president, et cetera. He seems to have been just an all-round "hockey operations" guy for McLaughlin.

 

[Sanf]

Black Hawks GM Bill Tobin had been a goalie out in the west though, in the 1920s Alberta with the Eskimos.

But Major McLaughlin was a very 'hands on' owner, so I guess it's hard to tell how much was McLaughlin and how much was Tobin, but I guess he must have listened something to Tobin. SIHR & Wikipedia aren't 100% in sync regarding time-lines or titles for Tobin's work in Chicago. First he was McLaughlin's assistant, then a coach, then president, et cetera. He seems to have been just an all-round "hockey operations" guy for McLaughlin.

Yeah he was. Played in Ottawa in several teams prior to that. Was highly regarded as amateur, but I believe that Frank Boucher said lot later that Tobin was one of the worst pro goalies he had seen. This was when they were both executives so there may have been something in there.

He was there for I believe first 37 years of Black Hawks. I don´t know how much influence he had on McLaughlin, but after McLaughlins death he was building the farm system, taking the all-offensive hockey and man behind the Brimsek deal (Believed that he had atleast 3 more good years, but they gave up after one). But overall never done that deep research on late 40´s onwards.




This seems interesting book. Always found Black Hawks of 30´s and 40´s interesting. Always had a thing for disfunctional franchises...

 

[sr edler]

Yeah he was. Played in Ottawa in several teams prior to that. Was highly regarded as amateur, but I believe that Frank Boucher said lot later that Tobin was one of the worst pro goalies he had seen. This was when they were both executives so there may have been something in there.

He was there for I believe first 37 years of Black Hawks. I don´t know how much influence he had on McLaughlin, but after McLaughlins death he was building the farm system, taking the all-offensive hockey and man behind the Brimsek deal (Believed that he had atleast 3 more good years, but they gave up after one). But overall never done that deep research on late 40´s onwards.




This seems interesting book. Always found Black Hawks of 30´s and 40´s interesting. Always had a thing for disfunctional franchises...

Yeah, I think I've seen it before, but now when I looked at his stats again Tobin was a back-up in the WCHL for 4 straight years, only playing 8 games in total those seasons, behind either Hal Winkler, Wilf Talbot, Herb Stuart, Bill Binney or Hec Fowler. Tobin is the only constant Eskimo goalie during those 4 years, but never played more than 3 games in a season, which shows his coaches probably didn't trust him too much.

Even in 1920–21 he was a back-up in the Big-4 League behind Alex Renaud.

It's not that his stats were brutal though, but they weren't that great either. Outside of 20–21 when he actually posted better stats than Renaud (though in a smaller sample size).

 

[Sanf]

Yeah, I think I've seen it before, but now when I looked at his stats again Tobin was a back-up in the WCHL for 4 straight years, only playing 8 games in total those seasons, behind either Hal Winkler, Wilf Talbot, Herb Stuart, Bill Binney or Hec Fowler. Tobin is the only constant Eskimo goalie during those 4 years, but never played more than 3 games in a season, which shows his coaches probably didn't trust him too much.

Even in 1920–21 he was a back-up in the Big-4 League behind Alex Renaud.

It's not that his stats were brutal though, but they weren't that great either. Outside of 20–21 when he actually posted better stats than Renaud (though in a smaller sample size).

Yeah I can´t remember all the details of that season with Renaud and Tobin, but Tobins eligibility dispute pretty much broke the Alberta Big-4. No championship was awarded even though Eskimos and Tigers played a "unofficial final" of Alberta. But going too far OT.

 

[Theokritos]

All three members of the Pony Line are Hockey Hall of Famers that have won individual major awards in the NHL.

Max gets the most attention of the bunch when ranking the all-time greatest players, more so than his brother Doug, although their careers are merely identical except for Max playing on the Leafs and winning those three Stanley Cups.

Doug's career you could say was just nearly as stellar. He was named to four NHL All-Star Teams in his career and was the scoring leader in points and goals in 1942–43 and again in goals in 1943–44.

This is a good thread comparing the careers of the Bentley brothers:
The Bentley Brothers

My personal ranking of the three would be:
1) Max Bentley
2) Doug Bentley
3) Bill Mosienko

They're all legends. Period. And legends from this era should be remembered and celebrated a hell of a lot better than they currently are.

Agree with your ranking (althought the thread you've linked makes an interesting case for Doug Bentley) and of course with your last sentence too.

The description of the Pony line's play you have provided in your presentation is particularly enlightening:

As Gottselig had envisioned, Mosienko had fit in perfectly with the two Bentleys. Yet, making the plays for Doug and Mosie called for hair-trigger precision on Max’s part as the centreman.

Mosienko liked a hard, fast pass that he could take in full stride as he hit the blueline. Doug was the exact opposite. He preferred Max to hang on to the puck until they were over the enemy blueline, then flip through the defence. This gave Doug, cutting in fast, a chance to beat his man, pick up the puck and have only the goalie to beat.

“We were all so small,” Max Bentley later recalled of the Pony Line as he, Bill and Doug were all around 5'8", “but we were fast and worked so well together that it seemed like somebody was always open. If Doug wasn’t free, or Mosie wasn’t, I would be. Sometimes they’d both be hollering for the puck, and I’d divide up the passes to keep both of them happy.”

It's obvious the trio had great chemistry and played an exciting and high-scoring brand of hockey. But without having studied the contemporary newspaper coverage, I wonder if a line of three small players wouldn't be bound to run into problems in the playoffs in the O6 era. But then, with Chicago's lack of depth compared to the powerhouse clubs problems in the playoffs would have been inevitable anyway.

Another question: who did Mosienko play with in the years after the Pony line? Were there any other notable linemates he regularly shared the ice with and developed particular chemistry with?

 

[nabby12]

Agree with your ranking (althought the thread you've linked makes an interesting case for Doug Bentley) and of course with your last sentence too.

The description of the Pony line's play you have provided in your presentation is particularly enlightening:


It's obvious the trio had great chemistry and played an exciting and high-scoring brand of hockey. But without having studied the contemporary newspaper coverage, I wonder if a line of three small players wouldn't be bound to run into problems in the playoffs in the O6 era. But then, with Chicago's lack of depth compared to the powerhouse clubs problems in the playoffs would have been inevitable anyway.

Another question: who did Mosienko play with in the years after the Pony line? Were there any other notable linemates he regularly shared the ice with and developed particular chemistry with?

I think the most notable of Mosienko's linemates that he had excellent on-and-off-ice chemistry with were Clint Smith, Roy Conacher and Gus Bodnar.

Clint Smith played on the pre-Pony Line with Mosienko and Doug Bentley. They scored at a terrific rate for their time together, and if it wasn't for Max Bentley rejoining the Black Hawks after the war... Maybe we'd be calling Clint Smith a member of the Pony Line today.

Roy Conacher was a remarkable scorer that played on a line with Doug Bentley and Mosienko after Max had been traded to Toronto. Conacher even won the Art Ross Trophy in Chicago in 1948-49 for leading the league in scoring.

Smith and Conacher are both Hockey Hall of Famers.

Gus Bodnar later played on a line with Mosienko in the 1950s and the pair played together on a line for a few seasons. Notably, Bodnar assisted on all three goals of Mosienko's famous three goals in 21 seconds record from March of 1952.

Sadly, Chicago was extremely top-heavy with a high scoring first-line of forwards that was always among the league's best, and a decent second line. But other than that, they had not much else, which was always their biggest problem, not having the overall depth of the Canadiens, Maple Leafs, and Red Wings.

 

[Theokritos]

I also have to say I appreciate the context of the tactical development provided in the reading excerpt:

“The forward pass to the red line has increased the tempo of the game, and it should be great for the Bentleys and Mosie. We’re going to stick to our ‘Lightning on Ice’ motto, and we’re sure it will pay dividends.” (...) “The days of defensive hockey are gone,” explained Gottselig. “A goalie doesn’t have a chance in these days of five-man rushes...

That's the kind of stuff I've tried to look into in the ancient video project.

Ancient Video Footage: 1929-1941

 

[Theokritos]

Video back from the book launch not yet posted here: