More NHL Teams Should Move AHL Club Close

[LastWordArmy]

The relationship between the NHL and the AHL is truly unlike anything else in North American sports. The closest comparison would be in baseball, but with their three-tiered development system, but it’s not remotely the same. These AHL clubs have great value, as they give the prospects too old for junior hockey a chance to develop and prove themselves worthy.

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http://lastwordonhockey.com/2016/12/20/teams-need-bring-ahl-clubs-closer/

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[GarbageGoal]

The cherry picking in this article is phenomenal.

Cites Syracuse as having poor attendance, yet ignores the next several teams below them that have worse attendance despite all being within the parent club's region. Also ignores that 'Cuse does almost as well as a team with the parent club in the same city that are supposedly "Canada's team".

 

[adsfan]

To get from Detroit to Grand Rapids in 2 hours, you would have to average 79 mph!
That is a 2.5 hour drive in my experience.

Milwaukee to Nashville is about a 9 hour drive or a 90 minute flight.

Milwaukee is listed as 4596, in 20th place. By the end of the season, they will be 10th to 12th. As soon as the Packers season ends, the attendance jumps on weekends. They will end up with 6000 a game +/- 300. Last season, they averaged 6169.

I give this article a C. There are a lot of disconnected facts presented. You get a mosaic instead of a clear picture.

 

[DoyleG]

The Edmonton one isn't a bright one either.

Makes more sense to have them in Bakersfield since they can fly them to most of their conference opponents rather easily when the team is on the road

 

[mmazz22]

I highly doubt NHL fans are packing these arena's . The cities doing well are doing well on thier own not because say Cap fans are going in droves to watch the Bears.
And I'm pretty sure Abbotsford was a disaster.
Utica is treating Canuck prospects very well despite being 44 hours away, Utica closeness to have the leader allows many practice days . Isn't that more important for a prospect ?
I'm pretty sure the Crunch are a good draw despite Tampa being far away.
Syracuse out draws SAN Jose who "is in the back yard " of Sharks

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I highly doubt NHL fans are packing these arena's . The cities doing well are doing well on thier own not because say Cap fans are going in droves to watch the Bears.
And I'm pretty sure Abbotsford was a disaster.
Utica is treating Canuck prospects very well despite being 44 hours away, Utica closeness to have the leader allows many practice days . Isn't that more important for a prospect ?
I'm pretty sure the Crunch are a good draw despite Tampa being far away.
Syracuse out draws SAN Jose who "is in the back yard " of Sharks

Doesn't San Jose's current arena only seat like 3,000?

 

[axecrew]

Doesn't San Jose's current arena only seat like 3,000?

No I believe they still play in the shark tank like the big club. i know they did last year.

 

[go comets]

Pretty stupid article obviously written by someone with no clue what the AHL is about. would make little sense for Tampa or Florida to have their AHL team in Florida as they play in the northeast all the time. Hershey would lead the league in attendance no matter whom they are affiliated with, and the same for Utica as 3870 is all the building holds.

 

[LadyStanley]

Doesn't San Jose's current arena only seat like 3,000?

No I believe they still play in the shark tank like the big club. i know they did last year.

They currently play in SAP Center.

There are plans to build 3-5k arena at Sharks Ice (aka Solar 4 America Ice, recently renamed with sponsorship) and have been for about a decade. (Along with a sixth ice sheet)

Whether or not the Sharks choose to move the Barracuda to the new arena is yet to be seen.

Ground has not yet been broken, so it'll be at least a year before something is available.

 

[Canucks21]

When your AHL team is to close they are rarely if not never home when you are, so you're not really fixing the problem. I think its better to have your farm team close to most of your NHL division rivals for easier recalls when on the road e.g. Nashville/Milwaukee, Tampa/Syracuse.

 

[royals119]

When your AHL team is to close they are rarely if not never home when you are, so you're not really fixing the problem. I think its better to have your farm team close to most of your NHL division rivals for easier recalls when on the road e.g. Nashville/Milwaukee, Tampa/Syracuse.

I suppose that makes some sense for geographically isolated teams like Tampa, but just about every hockey team still spends more days in their home city than they do on the road. If you are trying to maximize the number of dates when the NHL team and AHL team are close to each other, locating their home cities near each other is still the best bet. Of course there will be times when one team is home and the other is on the road, but over the course of a season the greatest overlap will be when both are home. For a team that has a lot of other teams nearby, it makes even more sense to locate the AHL team near the NHL team. Philly for example will most likely travel the day of the game for games vs NYR, NYI, NJD which they likely bus to. Even for the short flights like PIT, BOS, MTL, BUF, etc they probably fly the morning of the game in most cases. Their affiliate in Allentown also plays a majority of their games vs nearby teams like Wilkes-Barre, Hershey and Binghamton, so players can easily move up or down by car most of the time.

 

[LadyStanley]

Even though many of the Pacific Division teams (especially Stockton and Bakersfield) aren't in "big" cities, they are close enough (by car and in a pinch, regional airport) to major air hubs to be able to get call ups to any where in North America in a timely fashion.

That is why the AHL Pacific division was formed. (And why Edmonton and Calgary are satisfied their kids are "close enough" for call ups.)

 

[Hoodaha]

Even though many of the Pacific Division teams (especially Stockton and Bakersfield) aren't in "big" cities, they are close enough (by car and in a pinch, regional airport) to major air hubs to be able to get call ups to any where in North America in a timely fashion.

That is why the AHL Pacific division was formed. (And why Edmonton and Calgary are satisfied their kids are "close enough" for call ups.)

They're not giant cities, but they may be larger than you think. Bakersfield is the 52nd largest city in the US. Bigger than many that you might think were bigger. Stockton is around 64th. The idea was big enough city in relative close proximity to other AHL teams and near NHL teams for callups..

 

[ripham23232]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the article. I'm just drawing from what others have said.

The idea that an AHL franchise relies on Joe Hockey Fan to carry their attendance numbers is wrong. There isn't a minor league team in any sport that actively markets to a fan of the sport. That person is already coming to games. It's the family of four, the corporate outings, the youth groups or scout troops or whatever that they reach out to. The idea that attendance will go up if a development team is closer to its affiliates fan base is just wrong. Being on staff of a minor league baseball team, nearly all of our "marketing" is targeted at being a family friendly source of entertainment that will appeal to any interest, rather than hey come watch baseball! Competition isn't just other sporting events, but the shopping mall, movie theater, going out to eat, etc.

Now, that all said, it is incredibly beneficial from the hockey ops side of things to have them either close by or accessible, hence why Milwaukee/Nashville or a Bakersfield/Edmonton works. Regardless of where those NHL teams are playing, they can get a player anywhere in the country in a matter of hours. We're a Texas Rangers affiliate, and its a great relationship we have being 45 minutes from them.

Moving minor league teams closer to parent clubs is a trend in both the NHL and MLB for certain reasons, but from what I'm gathering from others' responses, not the reasons this articles lists.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I still wish the Sens moved the B-Sens Hamilton earlier, or to St. John's instead of Belleville for next season.

I'd say the Blackhawks and Wolves but that wouldn't be good chemistry, I find the Blackhawks better off with Rockford long term and seems to be working out very well with the two.

But one interesting fact is that some teams will be in big cities which is a good thing because it spreads the game out across the country. But I mean places like Chicago has an NHL, AHL and ECHL team; all of which are not affiliated.

Anyway, this is my take:

Nashville - Memphis
Tampa Bay - Orlando (Syracuse)
Minnesota - Milwaukee Admirals
Vancouver - Victoria (Comets)
San Jose - Sacremento
St. Louis - Expansion - Kansas City
New Jersey - Binghamton
Vegas - Chicago Wolves

*If Florida decides to relocate the Thunderbirds (which I doubt happens for a while) - Atlanta/Baltimore

 

[210]

Florida does not own the Thunderbirds, nor does Nashville own Milwaukee, nor Tampa Bay own the Crunch.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I still wish the Sens moved the B-Sens Hamilton earlier, or to St. John's instead of Belleville for next season.

Why? Belleville makes a lot more sense for the Sens given its proximity and the fact that it's in the Sens' TV region.

Nashville - Memphis
Tampa Bay - Orlando (Syracuse)
Minnesota - Milwaukee Admirals
Vancouver - Victoria (Comets)
San Jose - Sacremento
St. Louis - Expansion - Kansas City
New Jersey - Binghamton
Vegas - Chicago Wolves

You need to look at facilities and the presence of competing sports franchises in the winter.

Memphis, Orlando, and Sacramento all have NBA franchises. Memphis and Sacramento are neither large nor wealthy enough to support the NBA and the AHL ... just look at what happened when the Thunder moved to OKC.

Of those three, the only city I could see supporting an AHL franchise would be Orlando, but at what facility?

 

[jason2020]

uTurris


1)Bellville is in the Sens tv region
2)Close enough to call players up game day
3)Close enough for fans to go and watch the baby sens play.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I still wish the Sens moved the B-Sens Hamilton earlier, or to St. John's instead of Belleville for next season.

I'd say the Blackhawks and Wolves but that wouldn't be good chemistry, I find the Blackhawks better off with Rockford long term and seems to be working out very well with the two.

But one interesting fact is that some teams will be in big cities which is a good thing because it spreads the game out across the country. But I mean places like Chicago has an NHL, AHL and ECHL team; all of which are not affiliated.

Anyway, this is my take:

Nashville - Memphis
Tampa Bay - Orlando (Syracuse)
Minnesota - Milwaukee Admirals
Vancouver - Victoria (Comets)
San Jose - Sacremento
St. Louis - Expansion - Kansas City
New Jersey - Binghamton
Vegas - Chicago Wolves

*If Florida decides to relocate the Thunderbirds (which I doubt happens for a while) - Atlanta/Baltimore

Springfield's not going anywhere as long as the AHL stays there as that's where the League is based from, u turris,

Minnesota already owns Iowa, hence why Houston no longer has a franchise.

 

[royals119]

Florida does not own the Thunderbirds, nor does Nashville own Milwaukee, nor Tampa Bay own the Crunch.

Anaheim didn't own the Admirals and the Norfolk owner didn't want to sell, but when Anaheim decided they wanted to move an AHL team to California it didn't really matter. The NHL teams get what they want if they want it bad enough.

 

[go comets]

Springfield's not going anywhere as long as the AHL stays there as that's where the League is based from, u turris,

Minnesota already owns Iowa, hence why Houston no longer has a franchise.

The Aero's leaving Houston had nothing to do with anyone wanting to relocate it. The arena wanted a huge increase in rent.....

 

[210]

Anaheim didn't own the Admirals and the Norfolk owner didn't want to sell, but when Anaheim decided they wanted to move an AHL team to California it didn't really matter. The NHL teams get what they want if they want it bad enough.

That's great info, but totally irrelevant. Until these NHL teams purchase their affiliate talking about moving them is incredibly silly.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The Aero's leaving Houston had nothing to do with anyone wanting to relocate it. The arena wanted a huge increase in rent.....

the part you missed was Minnesota already owned the majority of the franchise, there's no sense placing one NHL Club with another's franchise.

point is, these newcomers don't take time to research before posting, I'm afraid, because it's not based in realistic terms

 

[royals119]

That's great info, but totally irrelevant. Until these NHL teams purchase their affiliate talking about moving them is incredibly silly.

I'm not saying the post you were replying to (#15) isn't totally off the wall with wild suggestions for moves that aren't going to happen.

However, it seems like an incredibly silly rule that we can't speculate about NHL teams possibly buying and moving AHL teams when it has happened several times in the last couple of years (Anaheim/Norfolk, Phoenix/Springfield, Ottawa/Binghamton, Montreal/St Johns just off the top of my head) i believe in all four of these cases the NHL team didn't own the AHL team, and then announced they were buying and moving the team at the same time.

 

[Ralph Slate]

Why isn't anyone speculating about the alternate path for the AHL, which is that the NHL gets sick of sustaining losses in the name of "development"? This has happened in the past - in the 6-team era the NHL owned the EPHL, it got sick of the losses and essentially shifted the league to the USA to form the CPHL, and again, got sick of the losses. And why do you think Detroit sold the Adirondack Red Wings? Because they were sick of losing money.

It would take a small shift in the CBA to make the current "within an hour's drive of the NHL team" irrelevant: give a NHL team a certain number of players on their roster who do not count against the cap if they don't play. Come up with some fancy technical details to prevent gaming. Now a NHL team can again carry 3-4 players around instead of having to run an AHL team in the same building to get the same cap effect.