More Goals in 2021-2022 Season: Ovechkin or Debrincat

[GRob83]

Simple question. Ovechkin scored at a 44 goal pace last year and Debrincat scored at a 50 goal pace. Who scores more goals this season Alex Ovechkin or Alex Debrincat?

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[bobholly39]

Alex Ovechkin is pacing for 164 goals this season
Alex Debrincat is pacing for 0 goals this season

I think the answer is obvious...

 

[GRob83]

Alex Ovechkin is pacing for 164 goals this season
Alex Debrincat is pacing for 0 goals this season

I think the answer is obvious...

Is that number sustainable? Only time will tell

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Let’s have @GeorgeLeafer12 give us his opinion on the subject

 

[wetcoast]

Probably Ovi as he will continue to get underserving top in the league PP TOI.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Probably Ovi as he will continue to get underserving top in the league PP TOI.

 

[GreeningOil]

Is that number sustainable? Only time will tell

50g in 25 GP incoming

 

[GRob83]

I really was not expecting this poll to be an absolute blowout.

 

[Lays]

DeBrincat shot 20% last season

 

[wetcoast]

I really was not expecting this poll to be an absolute blowout.

Poll was posted after a 2 goal perfomance by Ovi and let's face it Ovi is more popular in the polls section than DeBrincat and will get way more TOI and PP time as well.

 

[ESH]

Probably Ovi as he will continue to get underserving top in the league PP TOI.

How would you arrange Washington’s powerplay?

 

[GRob83]

Poll was posted after a 2 goal perfomance by Ovi and let's face it Ovi is more popular in the polls section than DeBrincat and will get way more TOI and PP time as well.

Is Debrincat not on the 1st line and PP1 for the Hawks? Who else would be out there over him?

Debrincat-Toews-Kane
Kubalik-Jones

 

[wetcoast]

How would you arrange Washington’s powerplay?

I would give younger players a chance to build up their confidence instead of playing Ovi well over a MPG more than the PP QB Dman but heck that might lead to more team success in the long run and Washington is all in on the pursuit.

Then again given how Ovi's ES play has dropped off I don't see them changing tactics any time soon.

 

[wetcoast]

Is Debrincat not on the 1st line and PP1 for the Hawks? Who else would be out there over him?

Debrincat-Toews-Kane
Kubalik-Jones

Debrincat isn't going to get a clear MPG more than any other Black Hawk on the PP, something Ovi almost surely will get.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Ovi. Already off to a hot start.

I don’t think he’ll win the rocket but I’d put money on him being in the top 5 goal scorers if he stays healthy, which he usually does.

 

[banks]

DeBrincat might be in the running for the Rocket. But Ovie is assuredly in the running for the rocket. He's given no indication that he won't.

Ovie.

 

[filinski77]

I would give younger players a chance to build up their confidence instead of playing Ovi well over a MPG more than the PP QB Dman but heck that might lead to more team success in the long run and Washington is all in on the pursuit.

Then again given how Ovi's ES play has dropped off I don't see them changing tactics any time soon.

What a delusional take. So you think that the Caps would have more "team success" if they gave a younger player a chance to build up their confidence and gave them Ovi's spot on the PP?

Ovechkin is one of the best powerplay players all-time, and still one of the best in the league. If you watch Caps games, you'll know that they don't force passes to Ovi at all.

I've said this many times (and probably to you), but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ovechkin getting the PPTOI that he does. He is the most shadowed player on the powerplay of anyone in the NHL. Even if he's just standing there, PK'ers will cheat towards him, which gives the Caps more open space on the other side of the ice. Very few players in the NHL have that ability.

That's why it's so silly to whine about his PPTOI and act like he doesn't deserve it. He can stay out there the whole 2 minutes because his role does not require him to move too much, so he doesn't tire out. There's literally nothing wrong with that at all. Judging that role by comparing him to powerplay players that are more in-line with the norm is ridiculous.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What a delusional take. So you think that the Caps would have more "team success" if they gave a younger player a chance to build up their confidence and gave them Ovi's spot on the PP?

Ovechkin is one of the best powerplay players all-time, and still one of the best in the league. If you watch Caps games, you'll know that they don't force passes to Ovi at all.

I've said this many times (and probably to you), but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ovechkin getting the PPTOI that he does. He is the most shadowed player on the powerplay of anyone in the NHL. Even if he's just standing there, PK'ers will cheat towards him, which gives the Caps more open space on the other side of the ice. Very few players in the NHL have that ability.

That's why it's so silly to whine about his PPTOI and act like he doesn't deserve it. He can stay out there the whole 2 minutes because his role does not require him to move too much, so he doesn't tire out. There's literally nothing wrong with that at all. Judging that role by comparing him to powerplay players that are more in-line with the norm is ridiculous.

No, they need to cut down some of Ovi’s ice time on the PP and have him share his office with Daniel Sprong. At least he’ll move around and fire 95 mph slap shots completely off target.

 

[wetcoast]

What a delusional take. So you think that the Caps would have more "team success" if they gave a younger player a chance to build up their confidence and gave them Ovi's spot on the PP?

No one is talking about Ovi giving up his spot just about developing other players as teams with more players playing with confidence tend to do better.

Playing the most PP TOI in the alst 2 years should bring back a better line of 13-5 and 9-8 if Ovi still was truly great on the PP one would think so how are both things possibly true?

Ovechkin is one of the best powerplay players all-time, and still one of the best in the league.

Look up to my last point he was but he isn't anymore.

If you watch Caps games, you'll know that they don't force passes to Ovi at all.

At the end of the day production isn't consistent to the input, ie his extreme amount of TOI.

I've said this many times (and probably to you), but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ovechkin getting the PPTOI that he does. He is the most shadowed player on the powerplay of anyone in the NHL. Even if he's just standing there, PK'ers will cheat towards him, which gives the Caps more open space on the other side of the ice. Very few players in the NHL have that ability.

That's why it's so silly to whine about his PPTOI and act like he doesn't deserve it. He can stay out there the whole 2 minutes because his role does not require him to move too much, so he doesn't tire out. There's literally nothing wrong with that at all. Judging that role by comparing him to powerplay players that are more in-line with the norm is ridiculous.

Funny that he is sooo good on the PP and he is 34th in PPP in the last 2 years and has pretty much more PP TOI than anyone in the NHL.

How exactly is one to square that circle?

NHL Stats

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What a delusional take. So you think that the Caps would have more "team success" if they gave a younger player a chance to build up their confidence and gave them Ovi's spot on the PP?

Ovechkin is one of the best powerplay players all-time, and still one of the best in the league. If you watch Caps games, you'll know that they don't force passes to Ovi at all.

I've said this many times (and probably to you), but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ovechkin getting the PPTOI that he does. He is the most shadowed player on the powerplay of anyone in the NHL. Even if he's just standing there, PK'ers will cheat towards him, which gives the Caps more open space on the other side of the ice. Very few players in the NHL have that ability.

That's why it's so silly to whine about his PPTOI and act like he doesn't deserve it. He can stay out there the whole 2 minutes because his role does not require him to move too much, so he doesn't tire out. There's literally nothing wrong with that at all. Judging that role by comparing him to powerplay players that are more in-line with the norm is ridiculous.

But what's his powerplay goals per 60? That's the only thing that matters.

 

[ricky0034]

50g in 25 GP incoming

too bad nobody will care about it after Tyler Bertuzzi gets 50 in 13

 

[filinski77]

No one is talking about Ovi giving up his spot just about developing other players as teams with more players playing with confidence tend to do better.

Playing the most PP TOI in the alst 2 years should bring back a better line of 13-5 and 9-8 if Ovi still was truly great on the PP one would think so how are both things possibly true?



Look up to my last point he was but he isn't anymore.



At the end of the day production isn't consistent to the input, ie his extreme amount of TOI.


Funny that he is sooo good on the PP and he is 34th in PPP in the last 2 years and has pretty much more PP TOI than anyone in the NHL.

How exactly is one to square that circle?

NHL Stats

"No one is talking about Ovi giving up his spot just about developing other players as teams with more players playing with confidence tend to do better."
-> You straight up said "I would give younger players a chance to build up their confidence instead of playing Ovi well over a MPG more than the PP QB Dman but heck that might lead to more team success in the long run and Washington is all in on the pursuit.". This very clearly indicates that you are talking about Ovi giving up his spot for at least part of the power play. But I can guarantee you that the Caps coaches have thought about this, and determined that this will not help them win games.

"Funny that he is sooo good on the PP and he is 34th in PPP in the last 2 years and has pretty much more PP TOI than anyone in the NHL."
-> Why would you be using points as the benchmark, when it is very clear that Ovi's role on the powerplay is to either score, or draw attention away from his side since PK'ers cheat to him. Since the 19/20 season, Ovi is 5th in power play goals.

"At the end of the day production isn't consistent to the input, ie his extreme amount of TOI."
-> And like I already described to you, his amount of TOI is not going to line up with his production due to the simple fact that he spends a large chunk of his time being shadowed, which allows a 4-on-3 on the other side. If a player wants to cheat to Ovi's side for 45 seconds, Ovechkin will let him do that, because he realizes it lets the rest of the power play unit have a better scoring opportunity. This is the definition of being a team player.
-> You can also attribute some of the disparity to the fact that 2nd power play units will inherently have less talent, and a lower scoring rate than the first unit will. And Ovi playing both units will drive down his rate stats as well.

Overall, you're still trying to compare his rate stats and usage to a typical power play player, and that does not fit the bill for Ovechkin it all.

 

[wetcoast]

"No one is talking about Ovi giving up his spot just about developing other players as teams with more players playing with confidence tend to do better."
-> You straight up said "I would give younger players a chance to build up their confidence instead of playing Ovi well over a MPG more than the PP QB Dman but heck that might lead to more team success in the long run and Washington is all in on the pursuit.". This very clearly indicates that you are talking about Ovi giving up his spot for at least part of the power play. But I can guarantee you that the Caps coaches have thought about this, and determined that this will not help them win games.

That's right, if he isn't producing let other players play there and use him a bit less than overuse him with no tangible results not a hard concept really.

"Funny that he is sooo good on the PP and he is 34th in PPP in the last 2 years and has pretty much more PP TOI than anyone in the NHL."

-> Why would you be using points as the benchmark, when it is very clear that Ovi's role on the powerplay is to either score, or draw attention away from his side since PK'ers cheat to him. Since the 19/20 season, Ovi is 5th in power play goals.

So do you really think 5th in goals given thee extra icetime is really a good return?

How can he still be the best or one of the best when we take out points and only look at goals and then get 5th best?

"At the end of the day production isn't consistent to the input, ie his extreme amount of TOI."

-> And like I already described to you, his amount of TOI is not going to line up with his production due to the simple fact that he spends a large chunk of his time being shadowed, which allows a 4-on-3 on the other side. If a player wants to cheat to Ovi's side for 45 seconds, Ovechkin will let him do that, because he realizes it lets the rest of the power play unit have a better scoring opportunity. This is the definition of being a team player.
-> You can also attribute some of the disparity to the fact that 2nd power play units will inherently have less talent, and a lower scoring rate than the first unit will. And Ovi playing both units will drive down his rate stats as well.

Overall, you're still trying to compare his rate stats and usage to a typical power play player, and that does not fit the bill for Ovechkin it all.

Funny being a team player with 13 PP assists in the last 2 years is somehow a positive here.

As to your last point you are right it doesn't fit the bill for Ovechkin because he isn't the typical power play player, he needs more opportunities to get the same things done as real elite PP guys.

 

[filinski77]

That's right, if he isn't producing let other players play there and use him a bit less than overuse him with no tangible results not a hard concept really.



So do you really think 5th in goals given thee extra icetime is really a good return?

How can he still be the best or one of the best when we take out points and only look at goals and then get 5th best?



Funny being a team player with 13 PP assists in the last 2 years is somehow a positive here.

As to your last point you are right it doesn't fit the bill for Ovechkin because he isn't the typical power play player, he needs more opportunities to get the same things done as real elite PP guys.

It's very clear that you aren't understanding (or just ignoring) anything that I am saying here with regards to his utilization and HOW that ice-time is played out. I'm explaining why using rate stats in this circumstance don't make sense, but you're just saying that bad rate stat = undeserved TOI.

Have a great weekend, I'm not going to engage further in this with you.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Imagine wanting to move ~the games greatest goal scorer off the PP because you could develop other players instead.