Montreal Canadiens Top Shelf Prospect Review

[LastWordArmy]

This is a long one, packed full of scouting reports. Hope you enjoy.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/08/06/tsp-montreal-canadiens-prospects-3/

Mike Barrett's report is now out.

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2016/09/02/montreal-canadiens-prospect-update/

Click to read more...

 

[Scintillating10]

This is a long one, packed full of scouting reports. Hope you enjoy.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/08/06/tsp-montreal-canadiens-prospects-3/

McCarron fans won't like this read. Brian Boyle? What happened to his top 6 projection?

 

[uiCk]

He was never really projected as a top 6, realistically he's always been a "top 9" with some potential of top 6, but most have pinned him as effective 3d liner (who was a raw 'project' when drafted, that seems to have come close to fruition)

 

[Scintillating10]

He was never really projected as a top 6, realistically he's always been a "top 9" with some potential of top 6, but most have pinned him as effective 3d liner (who was a raw 'project' when drafted, that seems to have come close to fruition)

This board had all that debate other year over a first round pick who was a third liner? Made Subban trade look like back page news

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Surprised that Bitten wasn't mentioned at all

 

[LastWordArmy]

Surprised that Bitten wasn't mentioned at all

He's mentionned in the organizational round up.

Near the top of the page there is also a list of 2016 draft picks. If you click his name you can read his report.

We are big fans of bitten. He's just not top amongst the org's 8 prospects this year.

 

[uiCk]

This board had all that debate other year over a first round pick who was a third liner? Made Subban trade look like back page news

Alot of interest mostly due to to fact he is a big guy , and was fairly 'raw' when he was drafted (which basically means unknown potential in a way) and everyones hope the habs have a big dominant center in it's line up.

Also reflects the more glaring issue, lack of 'woa' prospects in our pool (Mikhail Sergachev pick has improved it no doubt)

 

[Sthabs]

Mccarron main issue to me seems to be his conditionning, and that's a good news, when he ll be up to shape for the whole year he should be more consistent.
I mean he started the year super strong and was dominant and slowed down when he got tired in January and it carried on til the rest of the season.
It was obvious when he got his stint with the big club that his tank was empty by like the 20th second, he couldn't skate any more by the 30th and had to be dragged off the ice by the 40th second.
I still have hopes for him.
The thing is he should help himself by loosing a bit of weight, and I think he did that for the July camp but am not 100% sure

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

This is a long one, packed full of scouting reports. Hope you enjoy.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/08/06/tsp-montreal-canadiens-prospects-3/

thanks for this.

McCarron fans won't like this read. Brian Boyle? What happened to his top 6 projection?

I feel like I'm one of very few people on here who thinks he has top 6 potential. Most have him pegged as a 3rd liner. It really depends on what our top 6 looks like going forward and if McCarron has as much room to improve as I think he does. Definitely a top notch 3rd liner you win cups with.

Surprised that Bitten wasn't mentioned at all

I really think he's the best of our small-ish forward prospects. Mostly because he has speed unlike all of them except for Ghetto. I think he'll end up being one of our best prospects out of who we have now. Top 3. Get the same vibe from him as I did from Gally and PK when we got them.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Mccarron main issue to me seems to be his conditionning, and that's a good news, when he ll be up to shape for the whole year he should be more consistent.
I mean he started the year super strong and was dominant and slowed down when he got tired in January and it carried on til the rest of the season.
It was obvious when he got his stint with the big club that his tank was empty by like the 20th second, he couldn't skate any more by the 30th and had to be dragged off the ice by the 40th second.
I still have hopes for him.

One concern is that every summer we hear McCarron say, "I need to improve my conditioning"

And every year... come training camp we hear, "I think my conditioning is much better than last year"

and then the cycle repeats.

Does he need a better off-season regime? A better trainer? cause the kid seems to identify the issue, seems like he works hard and he thinks he makes results, and then those results seem to go to ****.

 

[Sthabs]

One concern is that every summer we hear McCarron say, "I need to improve my conditioning"

And every year... come training camp we hear, "I think my conditioning is much better than last year"

and then the cycle repeats.

Does he need a better off-season regime? A better trainer? cause the kid seems to identify the issue, seems like he works hard and he thinks he makes results, and then those results seem to go to ****.

Yea I edited my post he should loose some weight, 235 is just way too much he should bring it down to 215-220 imo and then take it from there

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

One concern is that every summer we hear McCarron say, "I need to improve my conditioning"

And every year... come training camp we hear, "I think my conditioning is much better than last year"

and then the cycle repeats.

Does he need a better off-season regime? A better trainer? cause the kid seems to identify the issue, seems like he works hard and he thinks he makes results, and then those results seem to go to ****.

I think he has made strides in that but there's just a lot of work to be done in that department. Making the jump to pros is a huge adjustment fitness wise. Doesn't mean he didn't improve there. Had he not then he would've had a miserable rookie year. had he not had that mid season lull we'd be super pumped about him.

 

[Shutdown]

One concern is that every summer we hear McCarron say, "I need to improve my conditioning"

And every year... come training camp we hear, "I think my conditioning is much better than last year"

and then the cycle repeats.

Does he need a better off-season regime? A better trainer? cause the kid seems to identify the issue, seems like he works hard and he thinks he makes results, and then those results seem to go to ****.

It should be noted you've been staunchly anti-McCarron since the moment he's been drafted because he was very low in the 2013 LWOS draft forecast, you didn't see him as a first round prospect, and it seems like you felt the need to defend your ranking. We can dig up the posts. You've diminished all of his achievements in a way that's much more pronounced than a simple tempering of expectations. It seems like you've turned a corner and finally accept that he may in fact be an actual NHL prospect, but you still find ways to dig at him at any given chance.

I respect opposing opinions but it really seems like this is about ego above all else.

 

[LastWordArmy]

It should be noted you've been staunchly anti-McCarron since the moment he's been drafted because he was very low in the 2013 LWOS draft forecast, you didn't see him as a first round prospect, and it seems like you felt the need to defend your ranking. We can dig up the posts. You've diminished all of his achievements in a way that's much more pronounced than a simple tempering of expectations. It seems like you've turned a corner and finally accept that he may in fact be an actual NHL prospect, but you still find ways to dig at him at any given chance.

I respect opposing opinions but it really seems like this is about ego above all else.

We have never been big fans of McCarron, that's true.

Our issue going back to his initial draft report... and I quote from that very report.

"The reason I have him ranked so much lower than others, is that I just don’t see the top 6 upside here for the reasons I mentionned. My own personal philosophy is that with high draft picks, you should shy away from this type of player (even if they are a relatively safe bet to make the NHL) in order to go for a player with higher upside to play as a top 6 forward, or top 4 defenceman or starting goalie. The fact is that even the best third liners become available via trade and free agency and cost a lot less comparitively in a salary cap world than top line talent. The opportunity to get top talent on ELCs is too much for any team to pass up IMO, in order to take a safer player that can also develop out of a later round pick, or can be acquired in other ways. The top line talent rarely, if ever, makes it to free agency, and even when it does that type of player is so rare that supply and demand drives the cost way up. Its about maximizing your picks and their usefulness to an NHL team."



The issue hasn't changed.... We always saw the issue as a lack of top 6 upside, not the fact that he would not be an NHLer.

Its not about Ego when that position hasn't changed. I think there are still major question marks about his top 6 upside.

In fact I would say most people who have seen him since his draft year have moved to the same analysis that we had back in 2013... lack of top 6 upside.

So I resent the fact that you are accusing us of making this personal. Its not. He has had the same issue since he was 16. He's always been projecting as a third line ceiling. Ego doesn't change the fact that he has been unable to change that projection.

I guess cause we don't compare the guy to Tim Kerr (An actual comparison that happened on the board this week), a guy who was regularly scoring 40+ goals a season, that we are haters only doing this for ego though.


If I was a Capitals fan instead of a Habs fan, I'd bet I'd have the same arguments with people about Tom Wilson. If I was a Leafs fan instead of a Habs fan, I'd have the same arguments about Frederic Gauthier.

 

[Doc Hock]

Merci

that was great Saturday afternoon read

Looking forward to September!!!!!!

Doc Hock

 

[get25]

In the case of McCaron, we need to wait.
This was his first season in AHL/NHL.
38 points in 58 games in AHL is still a respectable pace of 46 points for a rookie.
Behind Holloway, Hudon and Dumont.
Roughly same as Andrighetto did in his first two years in Hamilton...

Sherback had a pace of 34 points.

DLR, Scherback and McCaron are the three youngest among our prospects with the Caps.
So time is of the essence.

In his first season in OHL, he had bad numbers.
But in the second season, his numbers exploded (from 34 to 68 points).

He did a pretty good start in AHL then slowed down a bit and came to NHL to score only 1G-1A. So he was not ready for NHL duties.
When he came back to AHL, he did perform again (short stint).

I think we will need at least one or two years of AHL/NHL before having an idea of his real ceiling.
He just turned 21, Carr did 39 points in 76 games with the Bulldogs at the same age.
For now Carr is three years older, Ghetto is two years older and Hudon one year older.

Boyle took 7 years after being drafted before playing a full NHL season.
Big Mac has been drafted three years ago.
I think it is a little bit soon to compare them.
Also the eye test tells me there is more to McCaron then there is to Boyle.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

In the case of McCaron, we need to wait.
This was his first season in AHL/NHL.
38 points in 58 games in AHL is still a respectable pace of 46 points for a rookie.
Behind Holloway, Hudon and Dumont.
Roughly same as Andrighetto did in his first two years in Hamilton...

Sherback had a pace of 34 points.

DLR, Scherback and McCaron are the three youngest among our prospects with the Caps.
So time is of the essence.

In his first season in OHL, he had bad numbers.
But in the second season, his numbers exploded (from 34 to 68 points).

He did a pretty good start in AHL then slowed down a bit and came to NHL to score only 1G-1A. So he was not ready for NHL duties.
When he came back to AHL, he did perform again (short stint).

I think we will need at least one or two years of AHL/NHL before having an idea of his real ceiling.
He just turned 21, Carr did 39 points in 76 games with the Bulldogs at the same age.
For now Carr is three years older, Ghetto is two years older and Hudon one year older.

Boyle took 7 years after being drafted before playing a full NHL season.
Big Mac has been drafted three years ago.
I think it is a little bit soon to compare them.
Also the eye test tells me there is more to McCaron then there is to Boyle.

I think if McCarron stayed with London his last year of junior, people would be higher on his offensive upside. He would've put up huge numbers. Those numbers declined with Oshawa because they played a different style. Still a Memorial Cup winner and all star.

I think he puts up really good numbers this year with the Ice Caps.

 

[get25]

I think if McCarron stayed with London his last year of junior, people would be higher on his offensive upside. He would've put up huge numbers. Those numbers declined with Oshawa because they played a different style. Still a Memorial Cup winner and all star.

I think he puts up really good numbers this year with the Ice Caps.

Yup. He was on pace for 108 points in London: 41 points in 25 games (playing with Domi if I am not wrong).

Went below ppg in Oshawa.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Interestingly, Christian Dvorak took McCarron's place after McCarron was traded and put up a higher PPG the remainder of the season.

Playing with Domi and Marner (when Domi was at WJC) is going to help anyone's numbers.

We have 4 years of junior numbers.... 2 years of US NTDP, 2 years of OHL.

In that time... 1/2 of 1 season were excellent offensive numbers. The rest, weren't.
During that 1/2 of 1 season he was playing with the best players in the OHL.

Just some context. Was the half-year an aberration; or is it the norm, and all those other things are the aberration.


McCarron seems like a guy who can get on a streak at times, but I don't see the consistency.

On top of that... 68 points might seem like a good season... but, for a first round pick, playing his 19/20 year old season in the OHL; its pretty much average at best. Most of the first rounders who go on to be scorers at the NHL level are dominating that league by their fourth year in the league. To the tune of 1.3 or 1.4 PPG or more. His points in his final year of junior are pretty similar to what a guy like Ryan White, Louis Leblanc, Max Lapierre, Kyle Chipchura, etc were also able to put up.

 

[LastWordArmy]

That said there are 7 other guys in the article and the arguments on McCarron being a third liner vs top 6 guy in terms of potential, feel an awful lot like deja vu.

 

[S Bah]

First in Importance is the development of Sergachev, the Habs must concern themselves with teaching Mikhail to learn to avoid putting himself in positions that cause serious injuries, particularly in the NHL.(Like Serge Savard when rushed into the NHL.) Next McCarron has always had the added task of blending his skills with being an NHL PWF, which always takes a minimum of 4 yrs. for the Top Ten draft picks. Whose talent's usually earn them NHL icetime immediately, learning the power game as they go, not so with McCarron. He's been tasked with being the physical leader on his team creating room for teammates with his boardwork/ net presence, alongside making the opponents play the honest game.(Not taking liberties with his teammates.) His talents will surface as he becomes accustomed to the rigors of the NHL, when players realize there is no easy way to play against this gentle giant, wake him and it's going to end badly for their team, one way or another.(Scoring or momentum changes in the Habs favor.
JDLR is a young Bob Gainey IMHO, this player can skate with every player and is relentless in his pursuit of the puck, also very resilient in taking hits and dishing them out!!!...

Lots to love in the Habs prospects, Carr is just coming into his own as an NHLer, he will be a roster player this year no doubting his ability/desire. So many talented players of every description, all with huge character/leadership, Max Friberg & Arturri Lehkonen both very capable two way scoring types. Then add Stefan Matteau, another PWF in the making Ohhh!!! the Habs are so deep in young talent, reminds this fan of the early 70's Habs teams NHL/AHL. Fans really need to grasp how very good this team is getting, the competition for any role is immense, which usually means your team is very close to becoming champions.

I see the Habs being very difficult to beat this season, once they begin to gel together, form the team chemistry that's sure to follow, the playoffs are a certainty. Special teams will be among the top of the league, as will our offence/defence, which spells great goaltending, as one expects with Carey Price healthy behind great defensive play by both forwards & defence. Go Habs Go!!!...

 

[JC Superstar]

McCarron has a special skillset that is hard to find even on a third line, that's why he was drafted in the first round. If it was by talent only, I've always think that McCarron, De la Rose, Fucale and Lehkonen would have been drafted in reverse order. The mix of size, grit, offensive skills was just too attractive at the time to NHL teams to last to the 2nd round.

Even if he should be a third liner, what he brings (or could bring) to the game can't be found in a cereal box, that's why there are so many arguments about belonging to the first round or to top prospects.

 

[Adam Michaels]

What encourages me for McCarron is that he has been progressing in his development consistently. After being drafted, he went to London to get used to longer seasons than he was used to. He didn't get off to a good start. But his second season saw him be effective and productive. He was moved from wing to center and he thrived. He was traded to Oshawa where he went on to win a Memorial Cup being a key element to their victory. He made his professional debut last season in St. John's and went on to be an AHL All-Star in his rookie season. He made his NHL debut and while it's clear he has his work cut out for him to make it there, he has proven that he's on the right path to becoming a full-time NHLer.

I'd be happy if he was our 3C. I could see him going up and down the top-9, playing center or wing depending on opponents and game situations. I think this was a good selection and I have high hopes when we have Big Mac in our line-up.

Another element to his game I really appreciate is his willingness to go to the net. We are so used to seeing smaller guys charge the net or simply cause chaos in the crease (Gallagher and Carr and now Shaw). But it's refreshing to see a guy 6'5" 230lbs., give or take, do what the smaller guys do.

 

[Sthabs]

I d also really would like to see him lower his center of gravity, he wouldnt be on his ass as often

 

[Hector Salamanca]

i see scherbak as a center is he can get better in the d zone. i like his size, the way he slow the game to give more space for his linemates ... we have alot of wingers prospects, if one of them can be a center at some point, i bet on nikita.