WWE: Monday Night Raw #184 - The Roman/Jinder Era

[KaseMeOutside]

Even the clips version of this show sucks.

I like how Stephanie recovered from her broken arm so fast

This show is so bad and somehow WWE is going to get two monster tv deals

This show is complete garbage in even just 20 minutes. Any time Stephanie speaks the show goes to shit

 

[Lunatik]

I thought the Zayn/Lashley segment was so bad it was good. People seem to crap all over the over the top ridiculous stuff, but that what professional wrestling was built off of, being a ridiculous carny act.

 

[Serac]

I don't think it crossed over into being so bad it was good. It at the very least wasn't as bad as the old day or bayley's this is your life

People don't trash the ridiculous over the top stuff. They trash the trash. The festival of friendship was over the top, and we all loved it. That was just meh

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

I thought the Zayn/Lashley segment was so bad it was good. People seem to crap all over the over the top ridiculous stuff, but that what professional wrestling was built off of, being a ridiculous carny act.

I wish I could agree with you, but that segment pretty much literally killed the crowd after a decent opening match.

I mean you could hear it, even after that segment, the crowd went dead, and then show had nothing to help it recover. Even the Rousey Nia contract signing which should have popped the crowd a big was flat.

It was just the worst segment to run and completely predictable and terrible, and unfunny and flat. Even the "actors" were pretty much looking around and you could see them say "At least its a paycheck"

You could see Sami looking at the crowd with this sad puppy look in his eyes saying "Please react somehow"

You could see Bliss and Ember looked really confused in their match because the crowd just stayed pretty much stunned, and that's with your best heel in the woman's division against the fast rising really good face. But nothing.

I guess though that the Management is looking at No Way Jose and realizing that the Adam Rose gimmick didn't work and neither does this.

One of the biggest issues is that nobody is buying that Reigns is being abused by the authority. When Steph talked about firing him the crowd cheered. you know your superface is in trouble when Kevin Owens gets major heat for coming out and saying that he liked him.

All of Raw is just disjointed right now. I noticed that they didn't do any Bayley Sasha stuff at all either. The writing is just a failure point on the show, the booking is weird and the characters that a short time ago were hot (Strowman, the woman's division, etc) have lost their heat.

 

[Deen]

Jinder is the best heel on Raw now.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I thought the Zayn/Lashley segment was so bad it was good. People seem to crap all over the over the top ridiculous stuff, but that what professional wrestling was built off of, being a ridiculous carny act.

I love the so bad it’s good stuff, I thought it was so bad it was terrible. I was hoping Zayn could do something to save it but nah.

Mr. Socko. Attack McMahon with a bedpan, much better stuff.

 

[GKJ]

I thought the Zayn/Lashley segment was so bad it was good. People seem to crap all over the over the top ridiculous stuff, but that what professional wrestling was built off of, being a ridiculous carny act.

People crap all over ridiculous stuff because it’s ridiculous. This is not the olden times.

 

[Lunatik]

People crap all over ridiculous stuff because it’s ridiculous. This is not the olden times.

Yeah, but it's also not real like people want it to appear. Ridiculous is better than the realistic bullshit that people seem to want.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Yeah, but it's also not real like people want it to appear. Ridiculous is better than the realistic bull**** that people seem to want.

 

[ColePens]

I thought the Zayn/Lashley segment was so bad it was good. People seem to crap all over the over the top ridiculous stuff, but that what professional wrestling was built off of, being a ridiculous carny act.

I don't think it crossed over into being so bad it was good. It at the very least wasn't as bad as the old day or bayley's this is your life

People don't trash the ridiculous over the top stuff. They trash the trash. The festival of friendship was over the top, and we all loved it. That was just meh

Agree with Serac here, MM. They needed to make it even worse to make it so bad it was good. They were in between trying to make it goofy/bad and trying to make it tv worthy. When you write something like that, it has to be so over the top bad that is is great. Example: Strowman pushing trucks onto people.

 

[BonMorrison]

That segment was problematic trash.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Agree with Serac here, MM. They needed to make it even worse to make it so bad it was good. They were in between trying to make it goofy/bad and trying to make it tv worthy. When you write something like that, it has to be so over the top bad that is is great. Example: Strowman pushing trucks onto people.

I was just going to mention Strowman pushing trucks on people and him showing up out of nowhere as good over the top stuff!

 

[Emperoreddy]

People crap all over ridiculous stuff because it’s ridiculous. This is not the olden times.

It wasn’t good ridiculous either.

Ridiculous segments work if the characters are good enough to carry it.

Foley doing “This is your life” for the The Rock worked because these characters were larger then life and people were invested.

The Festival of Friendship was ridiculous, but it worked because Jericho made it work.

This segment was doomed before it even started because no one cares about Lasher, especially this smiling babyface Lasher. The actual content was just boring. Everyone involved was simply there.

If Sami goes out there and turns up his obnoxious level by another 10, maybe you salvage the segment a bit. You would never fully save it though, because the crux of it all is carrying about Lashley.

 

[Pilky01]

I don't understand how one week WWE expects its fan to cheer for Nia Jax because she is fat and being bullied and bullies are bad, and the next they trot out a bunch of drag queens to get bodyslammed for laughs.

Its so dumb.

Also i don't understand how they got all that money. I am trying my hardest to reignite my passion for professional wrestling and I still can't manage to make myself care about Raw or Smackdown to watch for more than 30 seconds.

 

[ColePens]

I don't understand how one week WWE expects its fan to cheer for Nia Jax because she is fat and being bullied and bullies are bad, and the next they trot out a bunch of drag queens to get bodyslammed for laughs.

Its so dumb.

Also i don't understand how they got all that money. I am trying my hardest to reignite my passion for professional wrestling and I still can't manage to make myself care about Raw or Smackdown to watch for more than 30 seconds.

I think what you see across the board is that television shows that aren't on demand aren't really being watched at the same rate. Raw/SD have been able to deliver consistently for years and years. Fox/USA obviously get solid ad revenue from the ratings they do get. So the money is there. It's worth it.

And if WWE isn't cutting it for you, check out NXT, ROH, or NJPW. There is so much good wrestling right now that your passion will ignite again for sure. We are finally at a time in life where ROH/NXT/NJPW and other programs are all actually accessible to us.

 

[Pilky01]

I watched NXT Takeover New Orleans and that made me believe professional wrestling could be great again. Velveteen Dream is a f***ing STAR!



From everything I hear/see though, WWE won't be great again until McMahon kicks the bucket.

 

[ColePens]

Pro wrestling IS great right now. Sounds like you just want WWE, specifically, to be great.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I think I still pay attention to RAW and SD just because I want to be in the know of what’s going on. And I’m waiting for games to get off NBCSN so I can finally cancel my vue subscription once hockey is over. After that I’m totally just paying attention to NXT and ROH stuff from now on. I need something new if I want wrestling to still hold my attention.

 

[Pilky01]

Pro wrestling IS great right now. Sounds like you just want WWE, specifically, to be great.

Well yeah, I want the programs that are most accessible and have the highest production values to be great.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

WWE programming is largely garbage with some good points here and there. Even when Raw became better than SD in the post-split era, it's not like Raw was must-see TV or even great. It was just better than an awful SD. 2016 post-split SD with Kingpin Ambrose, Styles, Cena, Ellsworth, Miz, Ziggler, Usos, Slater/Rhyno, etc. was great. 2009 SD was great from what I heard. But for the past decade, WWE TV has been largely average to the bad end of the spectrum.

It's honestly just better to decide to watch NXT and read weekly to catch up, or just watch the little clips on YouTube. It's not worth the time investment.

That said, even with all the good times, aside from Daniel Bryan's RTWM, I haven't been enthralled in WWE programming since Edge suddenly retired. That was one of the first "I don't really have much reason to watch anymore" feelings I had when I came back to watching the product.

Yeah, but it's also not real like people want it to appear. Ridiculous is better than the realistic bull**** that people seem to want.

Ridiculous can still be good. That wasn't good at all. There's a line of being ridiculous bad and being ridiculous good, and that segment was so far into the ridiculous bad side that it couldn't even spot the line with a telescope.

As mentioned, Mr. Socko in the hospital to make McMahon feel better and Austin hitting McMahon over the head with a bedpan? So ridiculous that it's awesome. Austin holding a Bang 3:16 to McMahon's head while McMahon pisses himself in the middle of the ring? Ridiculously awesome (btw, imagine that segment on TV today? Oh lord)

Lashley's sisters? awful. Ridiculous or not, it was awful. Zayn couldn't save that.

 

[Hypernova]

WWE programming is largely garbage with some good points here and there. Even when Raw became better than SD in the post-split era, it's not like Raw was must-see TV or even great. It was just better than an awful SD. 2016 post-split SD with Kingpin Ambrose, Styles, Cena, Ellsworth, Miz, Ziggler, Usos, Slater/Rhyno, etc. was great. 2009 SD was great from what I heard. But for the past decade, WWE TV has been largely average to the bad end of the spectrum.

It's honestly just better to decide to watch NXT and read weekly to catch up, or just watch the little clips on YouTube. It's not worth the time investment.

That said, even with all the good times, aside from Daniel Bryan's RTWM, I haven't been enthralled in WWE programming since Edge suddenly retired. That was one of the first "I don't really have much reason to watch anymore" feelings I had when I came back to watching the product.



Ridiculous can still be good. That wasn't good at all. There's a line of being ridiculous bad and being ridiculous good, and that segment was so far into the ridiculous bad side that it couldn't even spot the line with a telescope.

As mentioned, Mr. Socko in the hospital to make McMahon feel better and Austin hitting McMahon over the head with a bedpan? So ridiculous that it's awesome. Austin holding a Bang 3:16 to McMahon's head while McMahon pisses himself in the middle of the ring? Ridiculously awesome (btw, imagine that segment on TV today? Oh lord)

Lashley's sisters? awful. Ridiculous or not, it was awful. Zayn couldn't save that.

They wrote a 10 min segment and forgot to add jokes. HAHAHA his sisters are guys in a dress.... good one. Then Lashley comes to the ring smiley like a moron and high-fiving everyone. Sami tried to make it better but one person can only do so much.

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, but it's also not real like people want it to appear. Ridiculous is better than the realistic bull**** that people seem to want.

When people sense there is reality and truth in a promo, that by far gets the biggest reactions. The notion that people want to see stuff that is bad on purpose is not based in modern times. You can go anywhere on the Internet and watch a train wreck. WWE’s biggest demo is 50+ for a reason.

Let’s also be crystal clear here, Vince wants you to think it’s all real. Everything he books is under the guise that you’re supposed to think you’re watching live sports, and more specifically, UFC.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

WWE has been terrible for a few years now.

 

[I Eat Crow]

That was the worst RAW in over a year. Even with fast forwarding through the commercials on the DVR, I want that hour and 45 minutes of my life back. The B Team was my favorite part of the show. RAW is just, so, so bad right now.

Turn Reigns heel already and have him attack Seth. That could actually be a decent feud.

Strowman should have been the champ at Royal Rumble or at the very least main evented WM. He needs to go off of TV for a little while and be booked as a monster again, not wrestling with 10 year olds and wrestling clean matches against other faces. Speaking of which, Balor needs to be the "underdog winning against all odds" face of the company. Nothing else works for him. This may be unpopular, but he has the charisma of a dry sponge outside of his entrance. Turn him heel otherwise.

McIntyre is the guy that should have a rocket ship attached to his back. Have him and Ziggler win the titles from Woken Wyatt and Matt at Summerslam. Build that feud up a little. Have them hold the titles for a bit until about Survivor Series so Drew can do singles matches and go for a singles belt.

Where are the Authors of Pain?

Sasha and Bayley's slow burn failed miserably. Take them both off of TV and have one go to Smackdown. I'd love to see a psychotic heel Bayley with a new finisher, but Banks is the logical choice to turn. She's a natural heel. If one goes to another show, both can be heels and I can be happy.

Roode, Jinder, Elias (besides his gimmick), Lashley are all boring.

That Zayn segment was the cringiest thing I've seen on TV in a long time. I cannot believe that someone actually signed off on that.

Smackdown, on the other hand, is being booked brilliantly. I love heel Nakamura. I'm hoping to see Samoa Joe going for a belt soon. AJ and Bryan are just great. They also have Rusev (need I say more?). Smackdown is definitely the A show now. Raw is the shitshow.

 

[GKJ]

@I Eat Crow i don’t know why Sasha and Bayley can’t both be heels on the same show and run together

 

[Paris in Flames]

The only positive from Raw is that Rollins got the win in a match where Roman was his partner.