"Momentum in Hockey"

[Pookie]

Is it fair to say that there truly is zero momentum between hockey playoff games? That what happens in one game has no affect on the next?

The Jets-Preds series illustrates this. Just when you thought one team was in control...it was gone as quickly.

Your thoughts?

Games are independent events.

Teams are different. Rosters are different. Strategy is different between games, periods and even shifts.

That’s why Corsi is dumb.

 

[Nick1219]

You simply cannot compare hockey and basketball because basketball contains far more narratives and far more stories are drawn up a certain way for the fans. In general, basketball players tend to have much larger more fragile egos, and their interviews tend to be much more candid and honest, while hockey players are essentially robots; devoid of any personality and emotion. As such, basketball players are a lot more likely to let narratives and mind games get into their head, while hockey players are far more disciplined, and think only about obliteration of the opposition.

Canucks had a similar situation in 2011 with Chicago. Got up 3-0 in the series, lost one game, and then it was "oh god, oh god, oh god, oh god not again"

I think EXTREME narratives can assist in carrying momentum between games. Even last year in the playoffs with it being very well-known that the Flames couldn't win a game in Anaheim to save their lives. Was it a 29-game regular season losing streak they had in Anaheim going into the playoffs last year?

 

[Master P]

Momentum might just be a teams ability or lack there of to stay composed under pressure.

 

[Bounces R Way]

What about from 2003-2011? 7 different Cup winners. Where was the momentum then?

Coincidentally happens to be the period where the NHL implemented a salary cap. Could be that that leveling of the playing field did exactly what it was supposed to do. In the 12 years prior to that there were only 7 different Cup winners. Since 2009 there have only been 4. In a 30 team league, with a hard salary cap and a draft lottery.

 

[Akrapovince]

If you think there is no momentum you also have to think there are no slumps.

So you’re telling me if a player goes on a goalless drought it doesn’t weigh heavy on their minds and they don’t grip their stick a little tighter etc?

These are players that believe taking the same route to work, eating the same thing and taping their sticks the same way help them.

The mind is a fragile thing in my opinion and confidence built from momentum goes a long way. However, each player is different.

 

[Evincar]

Coincidentally happens to be the period where the NHL implemented a salary cap. Could be that that leveling of the playing field did exactly what it was supposed to do. In the 12 years prior to that there were only 7 different Cup winners. Since 2009 there have only been 4. In a 30 team league, with a hard salary cap and a draft lottery.

I dont see the correlation. What happens if there no multiple winners in the next few years? Then your momentum theory doesnt really hold water.

 

[Mike Lowry]

Boston smokes Tampa in GM1 after taking out Toronto 2 days earlier while the Lighting sat around after taking out the Devils quickly. Then the next 4 Tampa easily gets past Boston. Washington rides a high after finally beating Pittsburgh and getting out of the 2nd round, while Tampa is sluggish after getting past the Bruins easily.

Yeah, no such thing as momentum. From now on, can topics like this only be answered by people whose game experience doesn't come from their X-Box?

 

[Bounces R Way]

I dont see the correlation. What happens if there no multiple winners in the next few years? Then your momentum theory doesnt really hold water.

Theory? Momentum is not a theory. In some cases it's actually a measurable scientific quantity

In this case I'm just making an observation. Is the statement: "The New England Patriots have developed a real positive momentum since hiring Bill Belichek." inaccurate? At no point did I say those teams won cups or playoff series or games because of their momentum. Only observed that to discount said momentum as a contributing factor is myopic.

 

[Evincar]

Boston smokes Tampa in GM1 after taking out Toronto 2 days earlier while the Lighting sat around after taking out the Devils quickly. Then the next 4 Tampa easily gets past Boston. Washington rides a high after finally beating Pittsburgh and getting out of the 2nd round, while Tampa is sluggish after getting past the Bruins easily.

Yeah, no such thing as momentum. From now on, can topics like this only be answered by people whose game experience doesn't come from their X-Box?

What about the series that didnt have any "momentum" ?

 

[olli]

If you think there is no momentum you also have to think there are no slumps.

So you’re telling me if a player goes on a goalless drought it doesn’t weigh heavy on their minds and they don’t grip their stick a little tighter etc?

These are players that believe taking the same route to work, eating the same thing and taping their sticks the same way help them.

The mind is a fragile thing in my opinion and confidence built from momentum goes a long way. However, each player is different.

Thats not the right comparison. Momentum is a team thing, not something determined by one player.

 

[olli]

Boston smokes Tampa in GM1 after taking out Toronto 2 days earlier while the Lighting sat around after taking out the Devils quickly. Then the next 4 Tampa easily gets past Boston. Washington rides a high after finally beating Pittsburgh and getting out of the 2nd round, while Tampa is sluggish after getting past the Bruins easily.

Yeah, no such thing as momentum. From now on, can topics like this only be answered by people whose game experience doesn't come from their X-Box?

I know this is off topic, but is Subban still a 4D?

 

[Atas2000]

Is it fair to say that there truly is zero momentum between hockey playoff games? That what happens in one game has no affect on the next?

The Jets-Preds series illustrates this. Just when you thought one team was in control...it was gone as quickly.

Your thoughts?

There is momentum in the games. Between games not so much.

 

[Akrapovince]

Thats not the right comparison. Momentum is a team thing, not something determined by one player.

A single player can have momentum, a single player can be streaky. Why is a team composed of that thing- players, any different?

 

[olli]

A single player can have momentum, a single player can be streaky. Why is a team composed of that thing- players, any different?

Because only a few players at any given time will be in a slump. Unless the team is really thin and relies very heavily on 1 or 2 players (like Edmonton with Mcdcvid), then when 1 player or even a full line is slumping, other lines will be producing. Slumps by individual players can affect a teams momentum, but there's way more to it than that. A player could be putting up points but playing horrible defensively, making game deciding mistakes, but they still wouldn't be in a slump.

 

[Akrapovince]

Because only a few players at any given time will be in a slump. Unless the team is really thin and relies very heavily on 1 or 2 players (like Edmonton with Mcdcvid), then when 1 player or even a full line is slumping, other lines will be producing. Slumps by individual players can affect a teams momentum, but there's way more to it than that. A player could be putting up points but playing horrible defensively, making game deciding mistakes, but they still wouldn't be in a slump.

That makes sense, but when you have momentum on your side things “feel” like they are going your way as a team. It’s an unquantifiable characteristic of the game, but it’s there.

Ottawa Senators rode momentum all post-season long on the back of Karlsson preforming well- team morale, game flow, decision making, confidence, are all things that can stem from momentum.

Player’s decision making and plays during a game are an evolution of their decision in games previous- so yes, momentum does carry over from game to game. Your team with player a on a 10-game goal streak will play a lot different than player a on a 10-game goal drought.

 

[Hal 9000]

Torts once said it doesn't exist

Was he down in a series when he said that by chance?

 

[olli]

That makes sense, but when you have momentum on your side things “feel” like they are going your way as a team. It’s an unquantifiable characteristic of the game, but it’s there.

Ottawa Senators rode momentum all post-season long on the back of Karlsson preforming well- team morale, game flow, decision making, confidence, are all things that can stem from momentum.

Player’s decision making and plays during a game are an evolution of their decision in games previous- so yes, momentum does carry over from game to game. Your team with player a on a 10-game goal streak will play a lot different than player a on a 10-game goal drought.

Thats true that a team will play better with a one of their players on a 10 game goalscoring streak. But at any given time there are several members on the team on 10+ game goalless droughts. And unless they're players that score a lot of goals then it probably doesn't bother them, or the rest of the team. Brooks Orpik hasn't scored a goal in over 2 years, but he's only got 16 career goals in almost 982 games. That hasn't affected the Capss one little bit.

 

[olli]

That makes sense, but when you have momentum on your side things “feel” like they are going your way as a team. It’s an unquantifiable characteristic of the game, but it’s there.

Ottawa Senators rode momentum all post-season long on the back of Karlsson preforming well- team morale, game flow, decision making, confidence, are all things that can stem from momentum.

Player’s decision making and plays during a game are an evolution of their decision in games previous- so yes, momentum does carry over from game to game. Your team with player a on a 10-game goal streak will play a lot different than player a on a 10-game goal drought.

I agree with the first two paragraphs.

I agree that a team will play better with a one of their players on a 10 game goalscoring streak. But at any given time there are several members on the team on 10+ game goalless droughts. And unless they're players that score a lot of goals then it probably doesn't bother them, or the rest of the team. Brooks Orpik hasn't scored a goal in over 2 years, but he's only got 16 career goals in almost 982 games. That hasn't affected the Capss one little bit.

 

[Hal 9000]

There is always momentum...always. The question is about whether a team can capitalize on it or stop the momentum. Right now Tampa certainly has momentum, It's up to the Capitals to stop it...something they couldn't do in game 4. The Jets had momentum going their way in the third period last game, but couldn't capitalize.

 

[olli]

That makes sense, but when you have momentum on your side things “feel” like they are going your way as a team. It’s an unquantifiable characteristic of the game, but it’s there.

Ottawa Senators rode momentum all post-season long on the back of Karlsson preforming well- team morale, game flow, decision making, confidence, are all things that can stem from momentum.

Player’s decision making and plays during a game are an evolution of their decision in games previous- so yes, momentum does carry over from game to game. Your team with player a on a 10-game goal streak will play a lot different than player a on a 10-game goal drought.

I agree with the first two paragraphs.

I agree that a team will play better with a one of their players on a 10 game goalscoring streak. But at any given time there are several members on the team on 10+ game goalless droughts. And unless they're players that score a lot of goals then it probably doesn't bother them, or the rest of the team. Brooks Orpik hasn't scored a goal in over 2 years, but he's only got 16 career goals in almost 982 games. That hasn't affected the Capss one little bit.

 

[Akrapovince]

I agree with the first two paragraphs.

I agree that a team will play better with a one of their players on a 10 game goalscoring streak. But at any given time there are several members on the team on 10+ game goalless droughts. And unless they're players that score a lot of goals then it probably doesn't bother them, or the rest of the team. Brooks Orpik hasn't scored a goal in over 2 years, but he's only got 16 career goals in almost 982 games. That hasn't affected the Capss one little bit.

If he’s playing well defensively, shutting down other team’s star forwards, laying hits (Orpik) are his forwards not more inclined to take more risk, play with more confidence in the offensive zone? Will his defensive partner be more inclined to make a game changing pinch?

Momentum is generated from more than just goals and points. The positive things that he has done in the past, will affect how his team plays in the future.

I think what I’m rambling on about in less chaotic fashion, is that positive affects from previous games will still linger for the upcoming games, whether it be from morale, confidence, trust, etc.

 

[olli]

If he’s playing well defensively, shutting down other team’s star forwards, laying hits (Orpik) are his forwards not more inclined to take more risk, play with more confidence in the offensive zone? Will his defensive partner be more inclined to make a game changing pinch?

Momentum is generated from more than just goals and points. The positive things that he has done in the past, will affect how his team plays in the future.

I think what I’m rambling on about in less chaotic fashion, is that positive affects from previous games will still linger for the upcoming games, whether it be from morale, confidence, trust, etc.

That was the point I was trying to make in my last post.

 

[Akrapovince]

That was the point I was trying to make in my last post.

My apologies, misunderstood.

What I meant with the goal scoring example is that it is one of many ways to generate momentum, and that when you have a player creating that momentum it affects how the team plays.

If you’re Orpik and you’re on a two on one with Tom Wilson, it most certainly affects your decision making, confidence, etc if said Tom Wilson is on a 10 goal scoring streak.

 

[olli]

My apologies, misunderstood.

What I meant with the goal scoring example is that it is one of many ways to generate momentum, and that when you have a player creating that momentum it affects how the team plays.

If you’re Orpik and you’re on a two on one with Tom Wilson, it most certainly affects your decision making, confidence, etc if said Tom Wilson is on a 10 goal scoring streak.

Agreed.

 

[Kranix]

Was he down in a series when he said that by chance?

He said it to the cops as he was being escorted out of the Saddledome for trying to fight Bob Hartley.