MLD2014 Prelminary Round - Montagu Allan - (3) Carolina Hurricanes vs. (6) MJ Canucks

[seventieslord]

Carolina Hurricanes

Coach: Alf Smith

Craig Simpson - Craig Janney - Vincent Lukac
Vyacheslav Kozlov - Barry Pederson - Justin Williams
Shayne Corson (A) - Jeff Carter - Sami Kapanen
Dave Tippett - Jordan Staal - Scott Mellanby (A)
Martin Gelinas, Erich Kühnhackl

Kenny Jonsson (C) - Drew Doughty
Roman Hamrlik - Sylvain Cote
Bruce Driver - Phat Wilson
Keith Carney, Bill Juzda

Sean Burke
Jonathan Quick

PP1: Simpson - Janney - Lukac - Hamrlik - Doughty
PP2: Kozlov - Corson - Carter - Driver - Pederson

PK1: Tippett - Staal - Jonsson - Doughty
PK2: Williams - Kapanen - Wilson - Cote

VS

Moose Jaw Canucks

Bun Cook, coach

Adam Deadmarsh - Ray Ferraro - HÃ¥kan Loob
Eddie Shack - Saku Koivu - Glenn Murray
Jeff Friesen - Thomas Gradin - Ulf Dahlén
Randy Burridge - Michal Pivonka - Darren McCarty
Dimitri Khristich - Sergei Nemchinov

Jyrki Lumme - Gilles Marotte
Dave Ellett - Barry Gibbs
Kim Johnsson - Rolle Stoltz
Dave Manson - Sergei Starikov

Pekka Lindmark
Leif "Honken" Holmqvist​

Click to read more...

 

[seventieslord]

I thought Carolina was excellent (despite Williams) but I liked Moose Jaw way more than this. They didn't deserve to face such a strong opponent.

That said, it's not over for them. They're matched very well. Carolina has the best defenseman in the draft, but Moose Jaw has the much stronger overall corps 1-6.

 

[MadArcand]

I thought Carolina was excellent (despite Williams) but I liked Moose Jaw way more than this. They didn't deserve to face such a strong opponent.

That said, it's not over for them. They're matched very well. Carolina has the best defenseman in the draft, but Moose Jaw has the much stronger overall corps 1-6.

I liked Moose Jaw much, much more as well.

I'm not sure about your statement about the D - I think Manson is MJ's second-best D-man and he's on the bench for some reason. I know you like Gibbs and Ellett (and I do like them too!), but IMO they're both in the Driver/Cote class. And I suppose you like Johnsson way more than I do as well.

On a sidenote, where do you guys dig the VsX's from? Do you calculate them for each player yourself? I have built my team without even looking at stats, so I could use it for doing a comparison, so that it looks a bit more objective than just me rambling off my gut feelings.

 

[seventieslord]

I don't know what universe we'd have to be in for Dave Manson to be a better overall player than anyone in that top-5. I had him last year (on a corps with Ellett and Gibbs) - and the quotes and numbers definitely place him firmly below guys like that.

as for the vsx, try this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28241305/ALLLEAGUES.xls

and use this as a supplement if you like: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28241305/USSR.xls

 

[Hobnobs]

Sadly madarcand will win this easily. Gramps is not coming back.

Edit: I mean sadly in the sense that there wont be any debates.

 

[MadArcand]

Sadly madarcand will win this easily. Gramps is not coming back.

Edit: I mean sadly in the sense that there wont be any debates.

Why? I hope your grandfather is OK and it's not health-related.

 

[Hobnobs]

Why? I hope your grandfather is OK and it's not health-related.

Nah its related to someone else running things here...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't know what universe we'd have to be in for Dave Manson to be a better overall player than anyone in that top-5. I had him last year (on a corps with Ellett and Gibbs) - and the quotes and numbers definitely place him firmly below guys like that.

as for the vsx, try this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28241305/ALLLEAGUES.xls

and use this as a supplement if you like: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28241305/USSR.xls

I'm assuming those spreadsheets are using your system, which you created yourself, using a formula that nobody else has had a chance to review and contribute to?

This is the actual VsX thread, using the formula that took contributions and suggestions from the ATD board, so it's somewhat "peer reviewed:" See posts 156-157 for the latest numbers: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1361409&highlight=vsx&page=7

 

[seventieslord]

There's no "formula", only a different benchmark used in less than 10% of seasons. (Basically due to a fundamental difference of opinion on the merits of comparing to the second highest number versus the actual second best scorer)

...but yes.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

There's no "formula", only a different benchmark used in less than 10% of seasons. (Basically due to a fundamental difference of opinion on the merits of comparing to the second highest number versus the actual second best scorer)

...but yes.

So it isn't VsX then

 

[seventieslord]

So it isn't VsX then

Right. Sorry if I made it appear that I meant to represent it as such.

 

[seventieslord]

what kind of role is Carter playing on a third line, anyway?

 

[MadArcand]

what kind of role is Carter playing on a third line, anyway?

Offensive one.

 

[seventieslord]

Offensive one.

Was there anything else about Carter that you liked when selecting him, or was the goal to take the best scoring center to get a third line with punch?

 

[MadArcand]

Was there anything else about Carter that you liked when selecting him, or was the goal to take the best scoring center to get a third line with punch?

Exceptional playoff performer who's above-average defensively, can help my PP, right shot...? There's a lot to like about Carter. My 4th line is more of a shutdown line than my 3rd (which is a two-way line) anyway.

 

[seventieslord]

Does anyone else think Carter is above average defensively?

And why is 0.65 points per game in the playoffs exceptional?

 

[MadArcand]

Does anyone else think Carter is above average defensively?

I suppose he got his Selke votes for being below average?

And why is 0.65 points per game in the playoffs exceptional?

So leading the playoffs in goals, or coming within a point of leading it in points (while winning the Cup on both occasions) is not exceptional at all?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Does anyone else think Carter is above average defensively?

And why is 0.65 points per game in the playoffs exceptional?

I don't know if he is in an all-time sense, but I think he's above average defensively today.

In addition to getting a handful of Selke votes a few times, he did play on Team Canada's checking line in the last Olympics, right? (Albeit as the worst defensive player on the line, but still)

 

[seventieslord]

Carter has ten selke votes in his entire career - an average of one per season. And they all came in years where he had by far the highest +/- of his career. can we really trust that to be a reliable indicator of anything more than stat-based voting? In both of those seasons (2009, 2011) he was not even his own team's top defensive center, so should he have received votes at all?

as for playoffs, if his overall PPG over a very large sample is 0.65 and you're able to cherrypick instances of strong offensive output, then there is also very weak offensive output to offset it. For example, he had just 21 points in his first 47 playoff games. Is either of those two cherrypicked examples more important than the bigger picture? The bigger picture is that he's averaged 0.65 PPG which isn't that great.

And I'm still not sure how/why he made team Canada... though he did play well.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Carolina wins in 5 games