MLD2014 Prelminary Round - Mickey Ion - (4) SF Seals vs. (5) Alberta Golden Bears

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,190
7,332
Regina, SK
sf-seals_whl_logo_x150.png


San Francisco Seals
1963 and 1964 Lester Patrick Cup Champions

Home Rink: Cow Palace, Daly City, CA
GM: papershoes
Coaches: Dave King, John Muckler
Captain: Harry Mummery
Alternates: Harry Trihey, Dickie Boon, Dustin Brown

Don Lever - Harry Trihey (A) - Yevgeny Babich
Fred Scanlan - Aleksandr Almetov - Carson Cooper
Loui Eriksson - Mike Fisher - Stu Barnes
Tomas Holmstrom - Orest Kindrachuk - Dustin Brown (A)
extras: Skene Ronan, Billy Breen

Harry Mummery (C) - Dickie Boon (A)
Doug Bodger - Dave Langevin
Scott Hannan - PK Subban
extras: Eric Brewer

Seth Martin
Bill Ranford

Powerplay:
PP1: Tomas Holmstrom - Harry Trihey - Yevgeny Babich - Dickie Boon - Doug Bodger
PP2: Fred Scanlan - Mike Fisher - Carson Cooper - PK Subban - Harry Mummery

Penalty Kill:
PK1: Don Lever - Aleksandr Almetov - Harry Mummery - Dave Langevin
PK2: Loui Eriksson - Orest Kindrachuk - Dickie Boon -Scott Hannan

VS

Alberta Golden Bears
logo-alberta_golden_bears.jpg


Coach : Marc Crawford

Thomas Vanek - Claude Giroux (A) - Keith Crowder
Venjamin Alexandrov - Victor Shuvalov - Konstantin Loktev
Shawn Burr - David Backes - Rich Preston
Milan Lucic - Todd Marchant - Rob Niedermayer
Ex : Fred "Steamer" Maxwell, Ron Duagay


Pekka Rautakallio - Lars Bjorn
Walt Buswell - Mike Green
Fredrik Olausson - Alex Levinsky
Ex : Jason Smith, Tom Hooper

Wilf Cude
Pekka Rinne

Power Play

PP1

Thomas Vanek - Claude Giroux - Keith Crowder

Fredrik Olausson - Mike Green

PP2

Venjamin Alexandrov - Victor Shuvalov - Konstantin Loktev

Pekka Rautakallio - Lars Bjorn

Penalty Kill

PK1
Todd Marchant - Rich Preston

Walt Buswell - Alex Levinsky

PK2
David Backes - Shawn Burr

Pekka Rautakallio - Lars Bjorn
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
Alright let's compare top lines

Don Lever - Harry Trihey (A) - Yevgeny Babich

Don Lever looks to be an excellent glue guy and good defensively to at least baby sit for your top line. It's impossible to get a read on how Trihey stands up amongst the other players in this format. Vanislander seems to believe is worthy of a being a top line center here so I'll go with that. Now Babich, was someone I was heavily considering, his accolades are definitely MLD top line/ ATD spare material. But my big concern with him is even though he had over a goal per game in the Soviet League his international scoring is very disappointing at only 19 Goals in 60 Games Played. Based on reports he'd fit this line well by chemistry wise.

Thomas Vanek - Claude Giroux - Keith Crowder

Comparing glue guy to glue guy, Crowder is probably a little worse than Lever hard for me to tell maybe a more experienced ATDer could advise there, but they will both fill there roles adequately in protecting the skill players. Giroux compared to Trihey, I have to consider a win for Giroux, they both play a similar style and will mesh well with the lines created. I strongly believe that this may be the last year Giroux falls to MLD, his record at the highest level of hockey is one of the best in the entire draft, even if he's only part the way through his career. Now Vanek is a ridiculously consistent scorer who would mesh extremely well with this line.

I think with the question marks surrounding Babich and the difference between Trihey and Giroux makes this a clear advantage for The Golden Bears.


For the second lines comparing each player directly.

Shuvalov < Almetov

Almetov has a similar trophy case in a more competitive era of soviet hockey (60s) compared to Shuvalovs in the 50s. Both have nearly equal goal scoring records despite the 10 year gap, showing an advantage towards Almetov.

Old bios indicate that Almetov was a more explosive offensive force, compared to Shuvalov who was a more conscious defensive presence. Clear victory Almetov

Fred Scanlan =< Konstantin Loktev

Hard to compare the two but I feel Loktev is most likely better than Scanlan. Both are sort of the glue guys on these lines providing a little physicality if required. But based on what I've read from the Bios I feel Loktev has an advantage since he will be providing more offence.


Carson Cooper = Venjamin Alexandrov

At best I think the offense these two will provide to there respective teams are fairly equal. Cooper had 3 years of note offensively where he was an offensive force. Alexandrov won his first USSR All Star in 1958 and his last ten years later showing that as the soviet game matured Alexandrov managed to adapt being relevent in Soviet hockey for that entire time.

Alexandrov has a excellent international record 161 GP 119 Goals against hockey powers of Sweden, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Finland and the USA Alexandrov's record switches to 119 GP and 71 Goals.

Against Everyone 0.739 GPG
Against Hockey Countries 0.596 GPG

Which is a noticeable difference but not damning, still showing he was an offensive presence against tougher opponents.

I think my second line is better even though my ratings end up in a tie on the basis of chemistry. Sources indicate how strong the historical line of Alexandrov - Almetov - Loktev was and I did my best to recreate some of the chemistry present in that line. As mentioned before Shuvalov was not the offensive Dynamo that Almetov was but I believe he'd serve the line a similar purpose.
 
Last edited:

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
Now third lines, comparing what appear to be shut down lines.

Backes > Fisher

This matchup is a clear win for Backes. In Backes's first 8 seasons in the league and 568 games played he recorded 357 points. In Fisher's entire career in Ottawa he played 675 in 11 years and recorded 348 points. Now offence isn't the best way to compare 3rd line shutdown players but in terms of depth scoring my 3rd line center seems to be able to contribute to the offense better than yours.

Now comparing notable Selke Voting Records

Fisher

2005-06 3rd
2006-07 5th
2011-12 7th

All of Fishers other finishes are past 16 and not worth considering

Backes

2010-11 7th
2011-12 2nd
2012-13 5th
2013-14 4th

Another advantage Backes has over Fisher here is his size, there are some large forwards in this format and will allow him to contain them and throw his weight around like he does in the current NHL. Not something really to consider when comparing, but when you factor in the competition in this draft something that shouldn't be ignored as a whole.

Clear victory for Backes here, the only advantage Fisher has might be longevity but it's not enough to penalize Backes.

Clear victory Backes

Eriksson > Burr

Eriksson has a clear advantage in offense with 4 consecutive seasons at 60+ points. While being known as a defensive forward his Selke voting has been underwhelming (maybe someone else could chime in why that is) Burr has 2 top 5 finishes in selke voting and no spectacular scoring finishes.

Advantage Eriksson

Preston = Barnes

Barns has no Selke finishes according to Hockey Reference (If they're missing please msg me and I'll reevaluate.) Preston has two finishes of note however.

1978-79 WHA Playoff MVP
1979-80 4th Selke

Barnes had a far longer career and that does detract from Preston's standing in this matchup. But this is the playoffs and Preston's WHA Playoff MVP as part of a winning team in the WHA sticks out to me in this matchup. Barnes had better scoring in the playoffs, but never won anything. Winning isn't everything but in this depth role Preston knows what it takes for his team to win and advance to the next round.

Equal, since Barns is a well known defensive presence, had better longevity and comparable scoring over a longer period of time. Compared to the more recognized defense of Preston and winning of championships and MVP awards.

Overall, the large gap between Backes and Fisher tips the matchup in my favour I believe.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
The line matchup that matters the least 4th lines

Holmstrom > Lucic

Both are big guys there to protect more skilled players and make some room on the ice. Both have been good in the playoffs generally, Holmstrom to date has been more consistent.

Advantage Holmstrom,

Kindrachuk < Marchant

Kindrachuk peaked higher offensively while Marchant for his entire career was used more a defensive center who spent a lot of the time on the penalty kill. Using the imperfect tool of adjusted points, the points gap shrinks and Marchants selke record along with his greater longevity (Nearly twice as long) tips this matchup in my favour.

Advantage Marchant


Brown > Niedermayer

Both forwards to grind the opponent down, Brown had superior offence.

Advantage Brown
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,190
7,332
Regina, SK
I will if you vote for me :sarcasm:

:laugh:

well, to be honest, I would tend to lean towards your squad in the absence of arguments, and so far you've put forth a few good ones, so you're on the right track. Hopefully papershoes makes an appearance and helps to swing the pendulum the other way. I want to see a good series.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
:laugh:

well, to be honest, I would tend to lean towards your squad in the absence of arguments, and so far you've put forth a few good ones, so you're on the right track. Hopefully papershoes makes an appearance and helps to swing the pendulum the other way. I want to see a good series.

If you see anything I've said that you disagree please chime in, that's how I'm gonna get better.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,190
7,332
Regina, SK
Alright let's compare top lines

Don Lever - Harry Trihey (A) - Yevgeny Babich

Don Lever looks to be an excellent glue guy and good defensively to at least baby sit for your top line. It's impossible to get a read on how Trihey stands up amongst the other players in this format. Vanislander seems to believe is worthy of a being a top line center here so I'll go with that. Now Babich, was someone I was heavily considering, his accolades are definitely MLD top line/ ATD spare material. But my big concern with him is even though he had over a goal per game in the Soviet League his international scoring is very disappointing at only 19 Goals in 60 Games Played. Based on reports he'd fit this line well by chemistry wise.

Thomas Vanek - Claude Giroux - Keith Crowder

Comparing glue guy to glue guy, Crowder is probably a little worse than Lever hard for me to tell maybe a more experienced ATDer could advise there, but they will both fill there roles adequately in protecting the skill players. Giroux compared to Trihey, I have to consider a win for Giroux, they both play a similar style and will mesh well with the lines created. I strongly believe that this may be the last year Giroux falls to MLD, his record at the highest level of hockey is one of the best in the entire draft, even if he's only part the way through his career. Now Vanek is a ridiculously consistent scorer who would mesh extremely well with this line.

I think with the question marks surrounding Babich and the difference between Trihey and Giroux makes this a clear advantage for The Golden Bears.


For the second lines comparing each player directly.

Shuvalov < Almetov

Almetov has a similar trophy case in a more competitive era of soviet hockey (60s) compared to Shuvalovs in the 50s. Both have nearly equal goal scoring records despite the 10 year gap, showing an advantage towards Almetov.

Old bios indicate that Almetov was a more explosive offensive force, compared to Shuvalov who was a more conscious defensive presence. Clear victory Almetov

Fred Scanlan =< Konstantin Loktev

Hard to compare the two but I feel Loktev is most likely better than Scanlan. Both are sort of the glue guys on these lines providing a little physicality if required. But based on what I've read from the Bios I feel Loktev has an advantage since he will be providing more offence.


Carson Cooper = Venjamin Alexandrov

At best I think the offense these two will provide to there respective teams are fairly equal. Cooper had 3 years of note offensively where he was an offensive force. Alexandrov won his first USSR All Star in 1958 and his last ten years later showing that as the soviet game matured Alexandrov managed to adapt being relevent in Soviet hockey for that entire time.

Alexandrov has a excellent international record 161 GP 119 Goals against hockey powers of Sweden, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Finland and the USA Alexandrov's record switches to 119 GP and 71 Goals.

Against Everyone 0.739 GPG
Against Hockey Countries 0.596 GPG

Which is a noticeable difference but not damning, still showing he was an offensive presence against tougher opponents.

I think my second line is better even though my ratings end up in a tie on the basis of chemistry. Sources indicate how strong the historical line of Alexandrov - Almetov - Loktev was and I did my best to recreate some of the chemistry present in that line. As mentioned before Shuvalov was not the offensive Dynamo that Almetov was but I believe he'd serve the line a similar purpose.

- Re: Trihey: players should be judged on their own merits. Please try not to defer to the vets, and especially not to just one vet. It's ok to not know one way or another, especially on a player like Trihey. We're here to learn!

- Babich's competition level is questionable as well. It appears that, unlike Bobrov, Sologubov and Tregubov, he wasn't an international star, merely a domestic star and international team member. So he's really tough to judge. My instinct - on a first line, very suspect.

-Lever won't "protect" star players physically, if that was what you were implying in the second paragraph. Good defensive valve though. Crowder is the physical wrecking ball type. Mellanby on roids.

- good point on Shuvalov vs. Almetov.

- Re: Cooper, don't forget he was a very dominant force in the OHA too. Back when senior hockey was worth talking about. Not saying he's a HHOFer, but I think he'd be a better HHOFer than Harry E. Watson, at least.

-
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,190
7,332
Regina, SK
Now third lines, comparing what appear to be shut down lines.

Backes > Fisher

This matchup is a clear win for Backes. In Backes's first 8 seasons in the league and 568 games played he recorded 357 points. In Fisher's entire career in Ottawa he played 675 in 11 years and recorded 348 points. Now offence isn't the best way to compare 3rd line shutdown players but in terms of depth scoring my 3rd line center seems to be able to contribute to the offense better than yours.

Now comparing notable Selke Voting Records

Fisher

2005-06 3rd
2006-07 5th
2011-12 7th

All of Fishers other finishes are past 16 and not worth considering

Backes

2010-11 7th
2011-12 2nd
2012-13 5th
2013-14 4th

Another advantage Backes has over Fisher here is his size, there are some large forwards in this format and will allow him to contain them and throw his weight around like he does in the current NHL. Not something really to consider when comparing, but when you factor in the competition in this draft something that shouldn't be ignored as a whole.

Clear victory for Backes here, the only advantage Fisher has might be longevity but it's not enough to penalize Backes.

Clear victory Backes

Eriksson > Burr

Eriksson has a clear advantage in offense with 4 consecutive seasons at 60+ points. While being known as a defensive forward his Selke voting has been underwhelming (maybe someone else could chime in why that is) Burr has 2 top 5 finishes in selke voting and no spectacular scoring finishes.

Advantage Eriksson

Preston = Barnes

Barns has no Selke finishes according to Hockey Reference (If they're missing please msg me and I'll reevaluate.) Preston has two finishes of note however.

1978-79 WHA Playoff MVP
1979-80 4th Selke

Barnes had a far longer career and that does detract from Preston's standing in this matchup. But this is the playoffs and Preston's WHA Playoff MVP as part of a winning team in the WHA sticks out to me in this matchup. Barnes had better scoring in the playoffs, but never won anything. Winning isn't everything but in this depth role Preston knows what it takes for his team to win and advance to the next round.

Equal, since Barns is a well known defensive presence, had better longevity and comparable scoring over a longer period of time. Compared to the more recognized defense of Preston and winning of championships and MVP awards.

Overall, the large gap between Backes and Fisher tips the matchup in my favour I believe.

- I don't really think it's that definitive in favour of Backes. I don't think Backes has the edge at all, to be honest. They have a very similar offensive prime - 5 seasons with 47+ points - with Backes having slight pure peak and goal scoring edges. Defensively, their top-end selke finishes are more or less equal. I think the eye test has them reasonably close defensively, too. But Fisher has played at that level for 56% longer. Backes has a size and physicality edge and is a captain, but Fisher is no less a leader. The big difference is in the playoffs. Backes' record is currently terrible despite being on an excellent team that should have done very well. Fisher's Sens tended to underachieve but they won enough games to get to a final and to a 3rd round game 7 with him playing an important role, and for him to have 97 career playoff games and 39 points, totals Backes hasn't even amassed 1/3 of.

- I think you're probably right about Preston vs Barnes. First of all, he's at an incorrect position (he was mostly a C with some LW) - second, he's not the kind of guy who I would look at in the MLD if I was looking for a scorer for my third line, a pure defensive guy, or a reasonable mix of both. He's kind of in no man's land - an honest, serviceable, passable player but the AAA draft is chock full of those. Preston has a couple of standout features to him, at least.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,190
7,332
Regina, SK
The line matchup that matters the least 4th lines

Holmstrom > Lucic

Both are big guys there to protect more skilled players and make some room on the ice. Both have been good in the playoffs generally, Holmstrom to date has been more consistent.

Advantage Holmstrom,

Kindrachuk < Marchant

Kindrachuk peaked higher offensively while Marchant for his entire career was used more a defensive center who spent a lot of the time on the penalty kill. Using the imperfect tool of adjusted points, the points gap shrinks and Marchants selke record along with his greater longevity (Nearly twice as long) tips this matchup in my favour.

Advantage Marchant


Brown > Niedermayer

Both forwards to grind the opponent down, Brown had superior offence.

Advantage Brown

- I don't think Holmstrom "protects" anyone, he's not that kind of player. He's best known for being a mule in front of the net but isn't a policeman type. Lucic was, obviously. He already has three seasons as good offensively as Holmstrom's best, while being a devastating hitter and fighter. He is also approaching 100 playoff games and over 60 points at such a young age. Still, the whole "being a valuable cog on a perrennial contender" thing is a trait Holmstrom almost has the ATD market cornered on.

Interesting note, we're talking about two players whose NHL careers almost miss overlapping in age. Lucic has played from 19-25, Holmstrom from 24-39. I don't really know who I think has the edge as an all-time player currently. One was certainly much more prominent around the league, the other has impressive longevity. Two very different players, too. Stylistically you can't compare them, only contrast.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad