MLD11 Sir Allan Montagu Finals: North Pole Dancers (1) vs. Jokerit Helsinki (3)
- Thread starter seventieslord
- Start date
When I joined this, I did not at all think I'd make it this far. Glad I was wrong.
Good luck Helsinki; this is going to be a good one.
Good luck Helsinki; this is going to be a good one.
Lynn Patrick - Billy Taylor - Yevgeny Babich vs Steve Vickers - Dan Bain (C) - Carson Cooper
1. Lynn Patrick vs Steve Vickers- Easy edge Patrick. Vickers is unimpressive in the playoffs with a couple of top 20's and top 15's in the playoffs here and there; Patrick, on the other hand, has a few top 10's and top 5's. Problem for Jokerit is that Vicker's is the 2nd best playoff scorer on their top-line.
2. Billy taylor vs Dan Bain- A lot closer than Patrick vs Vickers is. Billy Taylor has 2 top-10's in playoff points (including a top-5) and 3 top-10's in playoff assists (including a 2nd and a 3rd). Is that really far off of Bain scoring well in 3/5 of his stanley cup challenges, if at all? Where did Bain place amongst his fellow players in these years? Either way, the difference betweeen Bain and Taylor is a lot closer than that of Patrick and Vickers.
3. Yevgeny Babich vs Carson Cooper- If this is the regular season, this would be obvious. As it is actually the playoffs, I think it is fairly obvious as well; only going the other way. As good a regular-season scorer Carson Cooper is, at 7 playoff games and 0 points, his playoff scoring is non-existent. While Babich is nothing special offensively, he brings a lot more in the other aspects of the game than Cooper does, and for that, I'd give Babich an edge.
Overall: I think my top-line is the better in this series; as good as Dan Bain is, he is almost on his own in the playoffs, or at least a lot less than Lynn Patrick is. The two stars in this matchup in Lynn Patrick and Dan Bain are at least even (I'd say Patrick is better), but Billy Taylor blows any other player on the Jokerit first line out of the water, and will be able to compliment Patrick as well as he did in the regular season, something Dan Bain's main complimentary player (Carson Cooper) won't do.
Shutdown Lines: How shall they fair?
Baldy Cotton-Mike Ricci-Mush March against Vickers-Bain-Cooper
vs
Lorne Henning-Clarence McKerrow-Leo Labine against Patrick-Taylor-Babich
As far as which line will be scoring more, I'm fairly confident that will be mine. Labine is a good scorer, but in the playoffs, March puts up quite a number of more points than he does. McKerrow is likely the better offensive player than Ricci, but Ricci does have a top-10 in playoff points to his credit, and I can not seem to find much info on exactly how well McKerrow scored in the playoffs. Baldy Cotton also holds a signifigant edge over Henning in the playoff scoring.
As good as Bain is, he's up against a guy who is arguably the best defensive forward and defensive centre in the MLD in Mike Ricci, and I am quite confident Ricci will be able to shutdown Bain a lot better than Labine will be able to shutdown my star forward in Patrick, or more than McKerrow will shutdown Taylor to do the centre matchup.
I think March should be able to take care of Vickers better than Labine can do for Patrick. They both play the rough and tough game, but March has a much easier assignment and is a more famed for it.
Neither Babich or Cooper are great offensive players in the playoffs, making Cotton's offensive edge Henning all the more valuable. Both were known for penalty killing , but it seems to me that Cotton was the tougher player, as he was said to be "very willing to mix it up" and was a "persistent checker", not something I think Henning was known for. I'd give the overall edge to Cotton here.
All-in-all, I think my third-line will be able to handle the Jokerit first-line better than the Jokerit third-line can handle the North pole first-line, and my third-line should provide more offence.
1. Lynn Patrick vs Steve Vickers- Easy edge Patrick. Vickers is unimpressive in the playoffs with a couple of top 20's and top 15's in the playoffs here and there; Patrick, on the other hand, has a few top 10's and top 5's. Problem for Jokerit is that Vicker's is the 2nd best playoff scorer on their top-line.
2. Billy taylor vs Dan Bain- A lot closer than Patrick vs Vickers is. Billy Taylor has 2 top-10's in playoff points (including a top-5) and 3 top-10's in playoff assists (including a 2nd and a 3rd). Is that really far off of Bain scoring well in 3/5 of his stanley cup challenges, if at all? Where did Bain place amongst his fellow players in these years? Either way, the difference betweeen Bain and Taylor is a lot closer than that of Patrick and Vickers.
3. Yevgeny Babich vs Carson Cooper- If this is the regular season, this would be obvious. As it is actually the playoffs, I think it is fairly obvious as well; only going the other way. As good a regular-season scorer Carson Cooper is, at 7 playoff games and 0 points, his playoff scoring is non-existent. While Babich is nothing special offensively, he brings a lot more in the other aspects of the game than Cooper does, and for that, I'd give Babich an edge.
Overall: I think my top-line is the better in this series; as good as Dan Bain is, he is almost on his own in the playoffs, or at least a lot less than Lynn Patrick is. The two stars in this matchup in Lynn Patrick and Dan Bain are at least even (I'd say Patrick is better), but Billy Taylor blows any other player on the Jokerit first line out of the water, and will be able to compliment Patrick as well as he did in the regular season, something Dan Bain's main complimentary player (Carson Cooper) won't do.
Shutdown Lines: How shall they fair?
Baldy Cotton-Mike Ricci-Mush March against Vickers-Bain-Cooper
vs
Lorne Henning-Clarence McKerrow-Leo Labine against Patrick-Taylor-Babich
As far as which line will be scoring more, I'm fairly confident that will be mine. Labine is a good scorer, but in the playoffs, March puts up quite a number of more points than he does. McKerrow is likely the better offensive player than Ricci, but Ricci does have a top-10 in playoff points to his credit, and I can not seem to find much info on exactly how well McKerrow scored in the playoffs. Baldy Cotton also holds a signifigant edge over Henning in the playoff scoring.
As good as Bain is, he's up against a guy who is arguably the best defensive forward and defensive centre in the MLD in Mike Ricci, and I am quite confident Ricci will be able to shutdown Bain a lot better than Labine will be able to shutdown my star forward in Patrick, or more than McKerrow will shutdown Taylor to do the centre matchup.
I think March should be able to take care of Vickers better than Labine can do for Patrick. They both play the rough and tough game, but March has a much easier assignment and is a more famed for it.
Neither Babich or Cooper are great offensive players in the playoffs, making Cotton's offensive edge Henning all the more valuable. Both were known for penalty killing , but it seems to me that Cotton was the tougher player, as he was said to be "very willing to mix it up" and was a "persistent checker", not something I think Henning was known for. I'd give the overall edge to Cotton here.
All-in-all, I think my third-line will be able to handle the Jokerit first-line better than the Jokerit third-line can handle the North pole first-line, and my third-line should provide more offence.
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Going down to, perhaps, playoff top-15s for post-expansion players might be relevant, interesting, and fun. There were more teams, more games, more goals. Better sample size to formulate a larger leaderboard with any meaning.
But beyond the top-10 for anything pre-1967, I just don't see the point. I know because I've analyzed the top-10 playoff placements of many of my players and those of my opponents in the past, and I've found that in the 1920s and 30s especially, you'll end up having a 5-way tie for 10th place in goals, with each guy having two. So then the next 11 guys who each have 1 goal, are in a big tie for 14th. It's marginal.
But beyond the top-10 for anything pre-1967, I just don't see the point. I know because I've analyzed the top-10 playoff placements of many of my players and those of my opponents in the past, and I've found that in the 1920s and 30s especially, you'll end up having a 5-way tie for 10th place in goals, with each guy having two. So then the next 11 guys who each have 1 goal, are in a big tie for 14th. It's marginal.
Smokey Harris - Billy McGimsie - Alf Skinner vs Gerard Gallant - Ray Ferraro - Cliff Koroll
1. Smokey Harris vs Gerard Gallant- Smokey Harris is far and away the best player on either line (and probably gives me 3/4 of the best top-6 forwards in this series) A four-time PCHA First All-Star, 2 time assist leader, and great playoff performer too, he's much better than Gerard Gallant.
2. Billy McGimsie vs Ray Ferraro- After what I stated on Dan Bain, I suppose it wouldn't be fair to not note McGimsie falls under that same boat to an extent. Ray Ferraro is largely unimpressive in the playoffs other than that head-scratching '93 year. I'll see whether I can get stats from dreak on McGimsie, but McGimsie does have a decent 3 goals in 2 games during his first stanley-cup challenge. That '93 year might be enough to give Ferraro a slight edge, until I can find more stats that is, but either way I don't think it's as anywhere near as big a difference between Harris and Gallant
3. Alf Skinner vs Cliff Koroll- Skinner and his retro conn smythe need no introduction it seems (Was suprised to see him as a second star in my last series, but pleased). Leading the playoff in scoring that conn smythe year and a couple of other good playoff performances in addition to his gritty play gives him an edge over Koroll, with only two years of much note, where he was top-10 in points, assists, and goals once, and another year where he was top-15 in points and assists.
Overall: With Harris and Skinner having fairly signifigant edges against their counterparts, I'd say our 2nd line is the better of the two.
1. Smokey Harris vs Gerard Gallant- Smokey Harris is far and away the best player on either line (and probably gives me 3/4 of the best top-6 forwards in this series) A four-time PCHA First All-Star, 2 time assist leader, and great playoff performer too, he's much better than Gerard Gallant.
2. Billy McGimsie vs Ray Ferraro- After what I stated on Dan Bain, I suppose it wouldn't be fair to not note McGimsie falls under that same boat to an extent. Ray Ferraro is largely unimpressive in the playoffs other than that head-scratching '93 year. I'll see whether I can get stats from dreak on McGimsie, but McGimsie does have a decent 3 goals in 2 games during his first stanley-cup challenge. That '93 year might be enough to give Ferraro a slight edge, until I can find more stats that is, but either way I don't think it's as anywhere near as big a difference between Harris and Gallant
3. Alf Skinner vs Cliff Koroll- Skinner and his retro conn smythe need no introduction it seems (Was suprised to see him as a second star in my last series, but pleased). Leading the playoff in scoring that conn smythe year and a couple of other good playoff performances in addition to his gritty play gives him an edge over Koroll, with only two years of much note, where he was top-10 in points, assists, and goals once, and another year where he was top-15 in points and assists.
Overall: With Harris and Skinner having fairly signifigant edges against their counterparts, I'd say our 2nd line is the better of the two.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Well, hey, I'm not your boss or anything; just giving my opinion (based on experience)
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
A few added comments:
- A four-time PCHA All-star doesn't automatically constitute greatness. For example, Alf Skinner is just a good top-6 MLD forward and Ran McDonald was just drafted in the AAA draft. But, with Harris, it is definitely a sign of greatness. His offensive credentials, in playmaking, and to a lesser extent, goalscoring, are, to me, the best in this draft. I don't have his exact placements all handy, but based on my consistency in goalscoring and playmaking research, he comes out with one top-10 in goals and seven top-20s in a simulated consolidated league. In assists, he comes out with two top-2s, four top-10s, and again, seven top-20s. No one in this draft really touches those credentials. Keep in mind that this system is meant to "smooth out" the "splinter league" factor to not overvalue placing 7th in one league when that really places you about 14th between both. I agree that the system sometimes looks out of whack in comparison to later players, but check out how Harris compares to some other great pre-merger players:
Goals
Fredrickson|1|3|3|6|7
Foyston | 0 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 7
Hyland | 0 | 2 | 5 | 7 | 7
G.Hay | 0 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 7
Co.Denneny | 0 | 0 | 4 | 6 | 7
E.Oatman | 0 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 7
S.Harris | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 7
J.Adams | 1 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 6
B.Morris | 1 | 3 | 5 | 6 | 6
J.McDonald | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 6
B.Stanley | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 6
F.Taylor | 1 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5
Broadbent | 1 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 5
D.Kerr | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 5
A.Skinner | 0 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 5
Assists
F.Taylor | 6|7|7|8|8
Lalonde |2|3|3|6|8
S.Cleghorn |1|2|3|5|8
Keats |1|1|6|7|8
Harris |2|3|4|6|7
Fredrickson |1|5|6|6|7
Gerard |1|4|4|6|7
R.Crawford |0|0|4|5|7
Cy Denneny |2|3|5|6|6
B.Morris |1|5|5|6|6
Malone |1|2|4|5|6
G.Hay |0|2|5|5|6
Dunderdale |0|1|3|5|6
L.Patrick |0|1|3|3|6
Ja.McDonald |0|0|1|3|6
Co.Denneny |1|1|3|2|5
Cameron |1|2|4|4|5
Randall |0|1|2|3|5
- Your offensive analayses are basically right, however, Helsinki's 2nd line is a puck winning MACHINE. The big ball of hate and the big ball of heart are going to make life difficult for those three. I can buy Skinner being gritty but the other two, I don't think, have it in them. Reminds me of my 2nd round matchup with GBC last time. I had vastly superior talent there, but no puckwinners and his line was all glue. Not saying this is going to be your downfall, but don't dismiss that line too quickly either.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
The PCHA was a three and sometimes four team league.
Top-15 and Top-20 scoring stats are insignificant, misleading, because if anything, to finish outside top-10 in scoring shows how a player was not a primary scorer (on average, on any team) in the league.
Harris like Oatman was never top-5 in goal scoring. Harris was only once top-10 in scoring. In a 3-team league that means little.
Harris was three times top-5 in assists. That is significant. It reflects the top scoring line he was on more than his ability, as he played with all-time greats on that line. Three good seasons as part of the offense of one of the 3 or 4 teams in the league.
Top-15 and Top-20 scoring stats are insignificant, misleading, because if anything, to finish outside top-10 in scoring shows how a player was not a primary scorer (on average, on any team) in the league.
Harris like Oatman was never top-5 in goal scoring. Harris was only once top-10 in scoring. In a 3-team league that means little.
Harris was three times top-5 in assists. That is significant. It reflects the top scoring line he was on more than his ability, as he played with all-time greats on that line. Three good seasons as part of the offense of one of the 3 or 4 teams in the league.
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
If you want to debate the merits of certain players and why/how they finished where/as often as they did, be my guest. That would be highly relevant and interesting. But I think you are missing the point of my study.
I do not want to give credit for just being in the top-15 or top-20 in one little league.
The general basis of my studies of the pre-merger era, is that the overall top-20 is more or less constituted of the top-10 from each league. The overall top-10, then, would me more or less constituted of the top-5 from each league.
So, just to clarify, the three top-5s for assists that you refer to for Harris, are top-5s in a simulated merged league. Not just top-5 in the PCHA. I don't have his exact placements handy, but this means he was top-3, possibly top-2, in the PCHA three times.
Similarly, the one top-10 in goals you are referring to is top-10 in a simulated merged league, not just the PCHA. He was top-10 in the PCHA seven times, though closer to 10th most times.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Because he was three times top-5 in assists in a 3 team league?
Over a 4-year span, Gallant scored 147 goals and notched 942 PIM. That combination is impressive.
Gallant brings intangibles, Harris brings question marks.
Did Harris kill penalties? Was he a renowned forechecker? How was his work ethic? Did he fight or stand up for teammates?
The stats alone don't give sufficient indication of Harris' value. He was not a HHOFer but he played on lines with HHOFers. How is he head and shoulders above Gallant and others in this series?
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
SIMULATED STATS?
How many times was he even top-6 in a 3-team league? ACTUALLY. Seriously, we should go back to the actual stats.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Because he was three times top-5 in assists in a 3 team league?
Over a 4-year span, Gallant scored 147 goals and notched 942 PIM. That combination is impressive.
Gallant brings intangibles, Harris brings question marks.
Did Harris kill penalties? Was he a renowned forechecker? How was his work ethic? Did he fight or stand up for teammates?
The stats alone don't give sufficient indication of Harris' value. He was not a HHOFer but he played on lines with HHOFers. How is he head and shoulders above Gallant and others in this series?
I'm pretty sure Harris was more of a finesse player, and I alluded to that when I suggested he had no grit. But the offensive credentials are far beyond adequate for 2nd line MLD duty.
Didn't you say this?
Are you now arguing that Smokey Harris isn't worthy of our praise because you don't like his stats and you haven't read more about him?
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
All I'm doing is questioning whay Harris is considered so much better than every other forward in this series.
I praised him in my post. Three times he had significant assist stats. He seems to belong in this draft. But IS HARRIS SO MUCH ABOVE THE OTHERS IN THIS SERIES?
I'm sorry. I don't see him on the all-star teams:
No Harris anywhere. So if one is going to claim that Harris is so much better then the burden of proof falls heavily on the Dancers GM to show it.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
No, NOT simulated stats. Simulated leaderboards, based on the actual stats. Have you read my threads at all?
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=614595&highlight=consistency
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=633070&highlight=consistency
Example using a random, pretend year:
PCHA goals leaders
Player A: 25
B: 24
C: 22
D: 20
E: 14
F: 14
G: 13
H: 13
NHA goals leaders
Player I: 46
J: 38
K: 33
L: 30
M: 26
N: 25
O: 20
P: 15
Conclusion: Player I was the most dominant goalscorer of this season, outscoring the next-best in his league by 8, and 3rd-best by 13. Next best would probably be player J. Players A,B,C would round out the top-5. Players D, K, L, M, N would round out the top-10... and so on.
It's not rewriting history, or simulating phony games. It's an honest attempt to formulate what a consolidated leaderboard would look like if the two leagues were not separate, based on the knowledge that the top players in each league were always of very comparable talent.
Keep in mind, as well, that my goal was never to place every player in a definite hole and say "ok, this guy was 3rd in the PCHA, and therefore.... 7th overall." The conclusions drawn are not meant to be definite, hence the "top-2, top-5, top-10, top-15, top-20 ranges" I can't purport to know that Smokey Harris was exactly the game's 2nd, 4th, and 5th-best playmaker in three separate seasons. But it is a reasonable conclusion based on what is known, to say he was top-5 three times.
I hope this clarifies the matter for you.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Fair enough. That's up to them. I am aware that very little exists on the way he plays. I've noticed this about many decent non-hhof PCHA players, no matter where I look. (a few HHOF players, too) That is something they'll have to accept, and it's a very real hurdle to Harris getting any more credit or jumping up to the main draft.
The competition for top-6 winger spots was very tough. But if you ask me, he could have taken Vikulov, Redmond, or Goldsworthy's spot with ease.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
You mentioned that Harris got only one vote and it was from you. That means that the GM who drafted him didn't even list him among his team's top-3 picks when we submitted our votes.
So, however "tough" the competition was for top-6 spots, Harris was not even in the running, practically speaking. It was not a horse race he lost by a nose or anything.
Because he was three times top-5 in assists in a 3 team league?
Over a 4-year span, Gallant scored 147 goals and notched 942 PIM. That combination is impressive.
Gallant brings intangibles, Harris brings question marks.
Did Harris kill penalties? Was he a renowned forechecker? How was his work ethic? Did he fight or stand up for teammates?
The stats alone don't give sufficient indication of Harris' value. He was not a HHOFer but he played on lines with HHOFers. How is he head and shoulders above Gallant and others in this series?
Since when do career totals matter more than being an elite player? Gallant has only one top-10 finish in the playoffs, that's in goals. A couple of top 20's in other areas if you want to include them.
I won't deny Gallant brings good intangibles, and I'm not trying to sell Harris as a great defensive or tough player; I'm selling Harris as a fantastic offensive player and playmaker. He led the playoffs in scoring a couple times according to his LOH bio. He might be better offensively than anyone in your top-6 (Bain, I suppose, is arguable).
He was a first-team all-star in MLD10 to my knowledge. Why he didn't make the all-star teams in this MLD, I don't know; I guess I just didn't pimp him enough.
Edit: And for the record, I am pretty sure i did put Harris on our top-5 picks from our own team.
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Thanks for the Harris pimping by the way; I was waiting for dreak to provide stats, but he hasn't been around
Helsinki's 2nd line may provide puckwinning and intangibles, but are they really going to be able to do much with the puck when they get it?
Skinner can carry the load I think, and when my 2nd line has the puck, with Harris feeding Skinner, they'll get things done with it.
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VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Part of the effectiveness of offensive lines is having the defense get them the puck, then working from the point to keep the puck in, and get shots on net.
Jokerit has a competitive advantage in this regard in that its second pairing of star defensemen Clem Loughlin and Jack Campbell are better at it than the Dancers second pairing of Gord Fraser and Bob Rouse.
Jokerit has a competitive advantage in this regard in that its second pairing of star defensemen Clem Loughlin and Jack Campbell are better at it than the Dancers second pairing of Gord Fraser and Bob Rouse.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
...aside from his own team.
No. But that is not Harris' fault. Anyone who voted for Babich, Khomutov, Deadmarsh, Gilmour, Tanguay, Amonte, Nash, Smyth, Gardner, or Gallant, among others, should really come in here and explain how they would be better ATD scoring line call-ups.
Everyone had to submit 5 selections, and I think four of them should have been givens - Patrick, Kamensky, Smith and Denneny. that didn't leave many votes to go around for the rest.
Bob Gracie - Andy Blair - Bill Fairbairn vs Butch Keeling - Saku Koivu - Bruce Ridpath
1. Bob Gracie vs Butch Keeling- Ok, I can't deny Keeling is the better offensive player; he has one heck of a playoff resume, probably better than almost everyone in your top-6. I know Keeling played some 3rd-line duty; I haven't seen much specifically mentioned on his intangibles, while I know that Gracie was on a third-line that played a "peppery" or "aggressive" game. I'd still give the edge to Keeling though, if I am being honest.
2. Andy Blair vs Saku Koivu- It's hard not to like the hard working, heart player in Saku Koivu, but he does not provide so much on offence, or at least not as much as Blair. Koivu's lone top-15 finish that I can find in playoff scoring is a top-15 in assists. Blair, on the other hand, led the playoffs in goals and points once (Tied with Keeling in both of those interestingly enough- but Blair played two less games), and Blair also has two top-10's in assists.
As far as intanibles in this though, Koivu might have an advantage in that we have seen them. Blair, like Gracie, was apart of the "Pepper Boys" third-line known for it's aggressive style of play, but I suppose I'd give an edge to Koivu in intangibles still. However, I don't think the edge Koivu has is as large as Blair's offensive edge, and for that I give the overall edge to Blair in this matchup.
3. Bill Fairbairn vs Bruce Ridpath- I'll give the edge to Ridpath. Seems like quite a better scorer than Fairbairn was, and although I think that Fairbairn has more in the intangible department which shortens the gap, I'll still give it to Ridpath.
Overall: Despite the chemistry points my fourth-line might get with Blair and Gracie teamed up, I'll concede the fourth-line to Helsinki. Don't think mine is too far off however.
1. Bob Gracie vs Butch Keeling- Ok, I can't deny Keeling is the better offensive player; he has one heck of a playoff resume, probably better than almost everyone in your top-6. I know Keeling played some 3rd-line duty; I haven't seen much specifically mentioned on his intangibles, while I know that Gracie was on a third-line that played a "peppery" or "aggressive" game. I'd still give the edge to Keeling though, if I am being honest.
2. Andy Blair vs Saku Koivu- It's hard not to like the hard working, heart player in Saku Koivu, but he does not provide so much on offence, or at least not as much as Blair. Koivu's lone top-15 finish that I can find in playoff scoring is a top-15 in assists. Blair, on the other hand, led the playoffs in goals and points once (Tied with Keeling in both of those interestingly enough- but Blair played two less games), and Blair also has two top-10's in assists.
As far as intanibles in this though, Koivu might have an advantage in that we have seen them. Blair, like Gracie, was apart of the "Pepper Boys" third-line known for it's aggressive style of play, but I suppose I'd give an edge to Koivu in intangibles still. However, I don't think the edge Koivu has is as large as Blair's offensive edge, and for that I give the overall edge to Blair in this matchup.
3. Bill Fairbairn vs Bruce Ridpath- I'll give the edge to Ridpath. Seems like quite a better scorer than Fairbairn was, and although I think that Fairbairn has more in the intangible department which shortens the gap, I'll still give it to Ridpath.
Overall: Despite the chemistry points my fourth-line might get with Blair and Gracie teamed up, I'll concede the fourth-line to Helsinki. Don't think mine is too far off however.
Ok, I'm unsure of what you're saying here.
Are you saying that Loughlin and Campbell are better at keeping the puck in the offensive zone, and that gives your team an advantage? Well you're only looking at one-pairing in that context it seems. And although your defence may be good in that context, are your top-6 forwards going to do as much as mine when your defence gets them the puck? I think not.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
While the Jokerit top duo of Bilyaletdinov and Pervukhin played in the MLD11 all-star game, the unheralded top pairing on the Dancers Coutu and Babych are near equals. The former was on the top pairing of the Canadiens for a decade and the latter had the highest career scoring numbers of any dman in this draft. The Helsinki duo is faster and more proven in clutch competition at the highest levels of playoff hockey, but Coutu has the edge in terms of physicality and Babych in terms of powerplay scoring.
There is a clear advantage to Helsinki in terms of top-4 blueline, if not a big one.
There is a clear advantage to Helsinki in terms of top-4 blueline, if not a big one.
Thanks, this is something I can pretty much agree with. I don't think top-pairings will be the deciding factor of the series.
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