MLD 2015 Quarter Finals - Regina Capitals (2) - Houston Eagles (7)

[ResilientBeast]

Regina Capitals

coach: Emile Francis

Geoff Courtnall - Mike Ribeiro - Gary Dornhoefer
Shayne Corson (A) - Jason Allison - Marian Stastny
Murph Champberlain - Tomas Plekanec - Jimmy Peters
Morris Lukowich (A) - Pete Stemkowski - Jason Pominville

Jack Evans - Rick Ley (C)
Marty Burke - Bob Murray
Doug Jarrett - Pavel Kubina

Johnny Mowers
Kelly Hrudey

spares: Walter Smaill (D/F), Billy Harris (F), Martin Straka (F), Gordie Roberts (D)

PP1: Courtnall - Ribeiro - Dornhoefer - Murray - Kubina
PP2: Corson - Allison - Stastny - Ley - Pominville

PK1: Plekanec - Peters - Evans - Ley
PK2: Stemkowski - Chamberlain - Jarrett - Burke
PK3: Corson - Pominville - Murray - Kubina
​

VS​

The Houston Eagles

Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: Mattias Norstrom
Alternates: Gilles Marotte, Ray Ferraro

Alex Shibicky - Ray Ferraro - Grant Warwick
Loui Eriksson - Peter McNab - Mickey Redmond
Craig Simpson - Ulf Nilsson - Tony Gingras
Nick Libett - Bill Clement - Dallas Drake
Petr Nedved, Yuri Lebedev

Gilles Marotte - Jyrki Lumme
Garry Galley - Mattias Norstrom
Mark Streit - Marty McSorley
Sami Salo, Jeff Beukeboom

Reggie Lemelin
Niklas Bäckström

PP 1: Craig Simpson, Ulf Nilsson, Mickey Redmond, Garry Galley, Mark Streit
PP 2: Loui Eriksson, Ray Ferraro, Grant Warwick, Gilles Marotte, Jyrki Lumme

PK 1: Nick Libbett, Bill Clement, Gilles Marotte, Mattias Norstrom
PK 2: Loui Eriksson, Dallas Drake, Mark Streit, Jykri Lumme​

Click to read more...

 

[Elvis P]

Ulf Nilsson was a playoff MVP, 2 time 1st team All Star, a 2nd team All Star, and won 2 Cups. In Career WHA stats he was 1st in APG, 4th in assists, 10th in points, and 13th in goals created. He brings offense, a playoff MVP, and 2 Cups to our 3rd line.

Awards
1975-76 WHA WHA Playoff MVP

Honors
1975-76 WHA WHA All-Star Team (1st)
1976-77 WHA WHA All-Star Team (2nd)
1977-78 WHA WHA All-Star Team (1st)

Championships
1976 Winnipeg Jets (WHA)
1978 Winnipeg Jets (WHA)

Assists
Career WHA 344 (4)

Points
Career WHA 484 (10)

Goals Created
Career WHA 169.9 (13)

Assists Per Game
Career WHA 1.15 (1)

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nilssul01.html

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Is Ulf Nilsson Houston's best center?

 

[Iceman]

Is Ulf Nilsson Houston's best center?

I think so... I even have him ranked on my MLD all star voting but not the other 2 guys.

 

[seventieslord]

I'll try to be brief:

- Emile Francis is going to coach Lindy Ruff into the ground. Francis is a man among boys in this MLD, Ruff is just "meh" among this group.

- Goaltending isn't going to win or lose this series.

- Is this perhaps where the leadership void takes its toll on Houston? Norstrom is a really good start but there's a sharp dropoff from there.

- Top lines are built pretty similarly. I think Dornhoefer and Warwick are about even in what they will accomplish. But Ribeiro and Courtnall are just much more productive versions of Ferraro and Shibicky.

- McNab is not really close to Allison as a producer. Given the benefit of a full career to post a better 7-year VsX score, he still fails. Based only on best 5 seasons, Allison is a full 30% stronger a scorer. Redmond is not in Stastny's league as a scorer either, and though Eriksson brings Corson's two-way game and similar offense (better peak, worse longevity) he, and the rest of the line, lack the toughness and puckwinning ability Corson brings. The second line matchup is one that will be key to Regina's victory.

- On the third lines, as strong as Ulf Nilsson's offense appears to be, after you convert it from WHA numbers he's actually only about equal to Tomas Plekanec, a vastly superior two-way player. Simpson is marginally better at scoring than Chamberlain, but lacks all the rest that Chamberlain brings. Gingras and Peters? Tough to compare without going into a lot of detail, but does it even matter? Regina's third line is definitely better suited to play a two-way game more than Houston's.

- Houston's 4th line isn't bad at all. Pretty good mix of skills. I don't think it's quite as good as Regina's, but they can play with us.

- With all due respect to Houston's defense corps, which I think is really good at the top, it can't compare to Regina, who has the best 1-6 defense corps in the draft. Ley and Marotte are comparable as all-around #1s but from there:
- Evans is a Norstrom who received much more significant all-star recognition
- So is Burke, for that matter
- Jarrett was not the PP producer Galley was, but was much more recognized in his era as an all-around player nonetheless
- Murray could be likened to a Mark Streit with a longer NHL career for better teams, better defensive ability and more playoff success.
- Kubina is McSorley minus heavyweight fighting plus a brain

- Houston definitely has the better group of PP defensemen, but the jury's out on their PP as a whole, and the overly offensive nature of those four (minus Marotte, who is very good defensively) will haunt Houston on more than one occasion in this series.

- I think after Clement/Plekanec which is about a wash for PK ability, the PK comparison goes sharply in Regina's favour. Our 2nd unit, for example, features Jarrett and Burke, whose defensive play earned them all-star votes. Theirs features offensive specialists Streit and Lumme.

 

[MadArcand]

The second line matchup is one that will be key to Regina's victory.

Obviously, since I can't help but look at Regina's top 6 and think "Why is the line that's better at every position being used as second line?"

 

[seventieslord]

Obviously, since I can't help but look at Regina's top 6 and think "Why is the line that's better at every position being used as second line?"

Well, I don't agree with that but honestly, it's not a Completely unreasonable position.

 

[Hobnobs]

I'll try to be brief:

- Emile Francis is going to coach Lindy Ruff into the ground. Francis is a man among boys in this MLD, Ruff is just "meh" among this group.

- Goaltending isn't going to win or lose this series.

- Is this perhaps where the leadership void takes its toll on Houston? Norstrom is a really good start but there's a sharp dropoff from there.

- Top lines are built pretty similarly. I think Dornhoefer and Warwick are about even in what they will accomplish. But Ribeiro and Courtnall are just much more productive versions of Ferraro and Shibicky.

- McNab is not really close to Allison as a producer. Given the benefit of a full career to post a better 7-year VsX score, he still fails. Based only on best 5 seasons, Allison is a full 30% stronger a scorer. Redmond is not in Stastny's league as a scorer either, and though Eriksson brings Corson's two-way game and similar offense (better peak, worse longevity) he, and the rest of the line, lack the toughness and puckwinning ability Corson brings. The second line matchup is one that will be key to Regina's victory.

- On the third lines, as strong as Ulf Nilsson's offense appears to be, after you convert it from WHA numbers he's actually only about equal to Tomas Plekanec, a vastly superior two-way player. Simpson is marginally better at scoring than Chamberlain, but lacks all the rest that Chamberlain brings. Gingras and Peters? Tough to compare without going into a lot of detail, but does it even matter? Regina's third line is definitely better suited to play a two-way game more than Houston's.

- Houston's 4th line isn't bad at all. Pretty good mix of skills. I don't think it's quite as good as Regina's, but they can play with us.

- With all due respect to Houston's defense corps, which I think is really good at the top, it can't compare to Regina, who has the best 1-6 defense corps in the draft. Ley and Marotte are comparable as all-around #1s but from there:
- Evans is a Norstrom who received much more significant all-star recognition
- So is Burke, for that matter
- Jarrett was not the PP producer Galley was, but was much more recognized in his era as an all-around player nonetheless
- Murray could be likened to a Mark Streit with a longer NHL career for better teams, better defensive ability and more playoff success.
- Kubina is McSorley minus heavyweight fighting plus a brain

- Houston definitely has the better group of PP defensemen, but the jury's out on their PP as a whole, and the overly offensive nature of those four (minus Marotte, who is very good defensively) will haunt Houston on more than one occasion in this series.

- I think after Clement/Plekanec which is about a wash for PK ability, the PK comparison goes sharply in Regina's favour. Our 2nd unit, for example, features Jarrett and Burke, whose defensive play earned them all-star votes. Theirs features offensive specialists Streit and Lumme.

Ray Ferraro was a very productive scorer at ES. I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss him.

tbh after looking at peoples comments I think most of you are underrating Ferraros career a lot.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Well, I don't agree with that but honestly, it's not a Completely unreasonable position.

I think preferring Allison to Ribeiro is pretty unreasonable, to be honest.

 

[MadArcand]

I think preferring Allison to Ribeiro is pretty unreasonable, to be honest.

Better peak? Check.
INFINITELY better awards voting recognition? Check.
Better points, goals & assists finishes? Check.
Better in the playoffs? Check.
Better goalscorer? Check.
Better playmaker? Check.
More physical? Check.
MUCH better character? Check.

Sure looks unreasonable.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Better peak? Check.
INFINITELY better awards voting recognition? Check.
Better points, goals & assists finishes? Check.
Better in the playoffs? Check.
Better goalscorer? Check.
Better playmaker? Check.
More physical? Check.
MUCH better character? Check.

Sure looks unreasonable.

For someone who complains when others put too much emphasis on "almighty peak," you're sure putting a lot of stock into Allison's 2000-01. Because beyond that one season, we have Riberio with a 7 year VsX score of 74.1 and Allison with a 7 year VsX score of 65.9.

And both absolutely stink without the puck right?

I guess the argument for Allison is that he was better for a few years when healthy?

 

[MadArcand]

For someone who complains when others put too much emphasis on "almighty peak," you're sure putting a lot of stock into Allison's 2000-01. Because beyond that one season, we have Riberio with a 7 year VsX score of 74.1 and Allison with a 7 year VsX score of 65.9.

And both absolutely stink without the puck right?

I guess the argument for Allison is that he was better for a few years when healthy?

I really, really, really dislike how VsX is the new sacred cow here.

Even without the 2000-01 season for Allison...
- he owns Ribeiro in awards recognition (4th & 6th in AST, 9th in Hart, 15th in Selke vs. NOTHING)
- has better top 3 assists finishes (2nd, 6th, 8th vs. 5th, 7th, 9th)
- has a top 10 in goals (Ribeiro has none)
- has a better top-10 finish in points still (9th vs. 10th in the shortened season)
- is still better in playoffs, more physical and lacking massive character issues that Ribeiro has

Ribeiro only has longevity edge, but longevity as a mediocre 1st/2nd line tweener & prototypical bad team scorer? Please...

EDIT: really, we all saw both their careers. Allison was a star player that was done in by injuries, while team with Ribeiro as their top center isn't going anywhere.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I really, really, really dislike how VsX is the new sacred cow here.

Even without the 2000-01 season for Allison...
- he owns Ribeiro in awards recognition (4th & 6th in AST, 9th in Hart, 15th in Selke vs. NOTHING)
- has better top 3 assists finishes (2nd, 6th, 8th vs. 5th, 7th, 9th)
- has a top 10 in goals (Ribeiro has none)
- has a better top-10 finish in points still (9th vs. 10th in the shortened season)
- is still better in playoffs, more physical and lacking massive character issues that Ribeiro has

Ribeiro only has longevity edge, but longevity as a mediocre 1st/2nd line tweener & prototypical bad team scorer? Please...

-VsX is hardly a sacred cow, but a 10 spot difference is very large.
-You do have a good point about the awards voting, though again, that's based entirely off of two seasons, most of it based of one single season.
-Looking at only top 10 finishes (rather than at least top 20) for MLD level players is silly.
-prototypical bad team scorer? What do you think Allison was? I guess Allison's playoff record is a little better, but he also has a smaller sample

 

[Hobnobs]

-VsX is hardly a sacred cow, but a 10 spot difference is very large.
-You do have a good point about the awards voting, though again, that's based entirely off of two seasons, most of it based of one single season.
-Looking at only top 10 finishes (rather than at least top 20) for MLD level players is silly.
-prototypical bad team scorer? What do you think Allison was? I guess Allison's playoff record is a little better, but he also has a smaller sample

tbh I like Allison better too. In an all time sense I think hes less "flawed" than Ribeiro. Could be a wash tho with Ribeiros last season.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

tbh I like Allison better too. In an all time sense I think hes less "flawed" than Ribeiro. Could be a wash tho with Ribeiros last season.

Meh, I think this is a case of nitpicking the active player while glossing over the flaws of the guy who has now been retired long enough to apparently forget about them. 5 years ago, Allison was the poster child of the modern player whose flaws were constantly picked out.

 

[Hobnobs]

Meh, I think this is a case of nitpicking the active player while glossing over the flaws of the guy who has now been retired long enough to apparently forget about them. 5 years ago, Allison was the poster child of the modern player whose flaws were constantly picked out.

Nah not for me. I never liked Allison but I think he was less flawed. Even a when he was washed up and completely out of it he managed to put up points. Even if you think its sille Allisons peak with 2 top-10 scoring finishes is nothing to scoff at specially since Ribeiro has what? Two top-20s to brag about? One of them being top-10 in a shortened season.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Nah not for me. I never liked Allison but I think he was less flawed. Even a when he was washed up and completely out of it he managed to put up points. Even if you think its sille Allisons peak with 2 top-10 scoring finishes is nothing to scoff at specially since Ribeiro has what? Two top-20s to brag about? One of them being top-10 in a shortened season.

Ribeiro has 3 top 20s. I assume he probably has quite a few 21st-30th seasons (though I'm not going to bother calculating them myself), considering how much times he breaks a VsX score of 70.

 

[Hobnobs]

Ribeiro has 3 top 20s. I assume he probably has quite a few 21st-30th seasons (though I'm not going to bother calculating them myself), considering how much times he breaks a VsX score of 70.

Allison has four top-20s including two in the top-10, four top-10s assists and one top-10 in goal scoring and top-10 in PPG during his prime. Yet he is supposed to be worse than Ribeiro offensively?

Now add playoffs, physical and character to that.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Allison has four top-20s including two in the top-10, four top-10s assists and one top-10 in goal scoring and top-10 in PPG during his prime. Yet he is supposed to be worse than Ribeiro offensively?

Now add playoffs, physical and character to that.

It depends on how you look at it. Allison basically has 4 years as a relevant player (Benn for example has 5), then nothing really outside of it.

I probably was over-relying on 7 year vsX, but again, a 10 point difference by that metric is huge and really shows how little Allison accomplished outside of 4 years.

And when did Allison become noted for "playoffs, physical, and character?"

 

[Hobnobs]

It depends on how you look at it. Allison basically has 4 years as a relevant player (Benn for example has 5), then nothing really outside of it.

I probably was over-relying on 7 year vsX, but again, a 10 point difference by that metric is huge and really shows how little Allison accomplished outside of 4 years.

And when did Allison become noted for "playoffs, physical, and character?"

Compared to Ribeiro?

he uses his incredible strength to fend off opponents while swoops in the scoring positions.

howed only brief moments of his outstanding strength and skill before being hampered by a badly sprained wrist late in the season

a leader who is capable of dominating games while facing the opposition's number one checking line

A spirited, all around power pivot and superb playmaker, Allison has matured into one of the league's most dominant down low forces due to his prodigious strength on the puck and gifted stickhandling abilities

Turned in an inspired playoff showing, dragging himself onto the ice for the Colorado finale despite a severe Charlie horse… It is his competitiveness and determined bids to upgrade his skating and first step quickness that put him over the top

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

yeah, he was big and strong and used that strength to score. Where's the quote about his physical play... I guess calling him a "power pivot" is something.

I mean, I totally get your point - even if Allison provides nothing but offense, he doesn't have the negatives of Ribeiro. It's just that... that's kind of how Allison was viewed 5 years ago.

 

[MadArcand]

But that's not really true. Allison's problem was that he was rather slow and oft injured, and those injuries eventually led to him becoming a total slug, turning him into PP specialist and eventually out of the league. Still a far cry from super-soft sleazy *********.

 

[tony d]

My apologies for not participating more, I was on vacation and didn't get on as much as I figured. Also Re: All Star Voting, it's best that you move on without my votes. Don't want to hold things up any further.

 

[seventieslord]

- has better top 3 assists finishes (2nd, 6th, 8th vs. 5th, 7th, 9th)
- has a top 10 in goals (Ribeiro has none)
- has a better top-10 finish in points still (9th vs. 10th in the shortened season)

you act like vsx doesn't mean anything, but then you tout the above as though it is way more important. Both demonstrate the same thing which is how close they were to being the best scorer in the game and how often they were that close. VsX does it in a way that is much more granular and doesn't introduce arbitrary cutoffs that serve no purpose other than to exclude one player to the benefit of another.

FWIW, the Allison I remember was definitely better than Ribeiro at his best - and I'm referring to 98, 99, 01 and 02, though in 00, 03 and 04, he was just as good, but not playing very often if at all. There's actually a very good case to be made that he's the best four-season player in this entire draft. But Ribeiro has put together enough strong seasons that he's clearly a more reliable all-time player. His three best seasons are reasonably close to Allison's three best, but his 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th best are all as good as Allison's 4th. Having seven relevant seasons compared to four is a big thing, that's nearly double. Allison was about a 14% better scorer over his three best seasons, but that doesn't make up for Ribeiro being relevant for nearly twice as many games.

and I agree with everything that's said about the intangibles about these two guys - Allison gets crapped on rather unfairly and doesn't have Ribeiro's negatives, but in the end he's not a scale-tipping defensive or physical player, he's more or less one dimensional. Ribeiro by now has to be the better bet to score in an all-time setting.

 

[MadArcand]

^ you do realize the numbers you quoted are with Allison's best season completely ignored, right?

Anyway, Allison's 4th best season statistically is 1998-99, when he had 86 adjusted points, 0.93 PPG & 6th in assists.

Ribeiro's 4th best season is 2010-11 with 77 adjusted points, 0.95 PPG & 7th in assists.

Reasonably comparable, even if Allison's still better. But Ribeiro's 5th, 6th & 7th seasons are nowhere near that level! 75, 69, 68 adjusted points? 0.80, 0.85, 0.76 PPG? No top-10s? That's not 'same level'.

Allison was always the better player, it's just that his 5th+ seasons are all injury-shortened.