MLD 2014 Quarterfinals - Mickey Ion - (2) Pittsburgh vs. (3) Clarenville

[seventieslord]

Pittsburgh Yellow Jackets

Coach: Emile Francis

Brian Bellows - Harry Smith - Eddie Wiseman
Nikolai Drozdetsky - Billy Taylor - Mush March
Pud Glass (A) - Jaroslav Holik - Jason Pominville
Nick Libett (A) - Pete Stemkowski - Bill Fairbairn
Spares: Johnny Gagnon, Buzz Boll

Paul Shmyr (C) - Bingo Kampman
Doug Jarrett - Lubomir Visnovsky
Joe Watson - Bob Murray
Spares:Gordie Roberts, Udo Kiessling

Roger Crozier
Tomas Vokoun

PP 1: Bellows-Smith-Wiseman-Visnovsky-Murray
PP 2: Drozdetsky-Taylor-March-Shmyr-Pominville

PK 1: Glass-Fairbairn-Watson-Kampman
PK 2: Stemkowski-Libett-Jarrett-Shmyr

VS

Clarenville Caribous

Head Coach: Herb Brooks
Captain: Rick Ley
Assistant Captains: Gerard Gallant, Rick Meagher

ROSTER

Gerard Gallant - Marc Savard - Stephane Richer
John Ogrodnick - Peter McNab - Dave Christian
Murph Chamberlain - Rick Meagher - Gary Dornhoefer
Harry "Moose" Watson - Dave Gagner - Petr Sykorahttp://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=55474521&postcount=4
David Krejci

Rick Ley - Dmitry Yushkevich
Petr Svoboda - Mike O'Connell
Keith Yandle - Pavel Kubina
Rick Green

Jiri Kralik
Tom Paton

Spares:
Rick Green, D
David Krejci, C
Jack Marks, F/D
Anton Stastny, RW

PP 1: John Ogrodnick, Marc Savard, Stephane Richer, Mike O'connell, Peter Mcnab
PP 2: gerard Gallant, Dave Gagner, Dave Christian, Keith Yandle, Dmitri Yuskevich
PK 1: Murph Chamberlain, Rick Meagher, Rick Ley, Dmitri yushevich
PK 2: Dave Gagner, gary Dornhoefer, Petr Svoboda, Pavel Kubina
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[Velociraptor]

Best of luck, Rob.

Mod, could you make these necessary changes in our lineup? Thanks. Will try to add some insight in the coming days.

Gerard Gallant - Marc Savard - Stephane Richer
John Ogrodnick - David Krejci - Peter McNab
Murph Chamberlain - Rick Meagher - Gary Dornhoefer
Harry "Moose" Watson - Dave Gagner - Dave Christian

Rick Ley - Dmitry Yushkevich
Petr Svoboda - Mike O'Connell
Keith Yandle - Pavel Kubina

Jiri Kralik
Tom Paton

Spares:
Rick Green, D
Petr Sykora, RW
Jack Marks, F/D
Anton Stastny, RW

PP 1: John Ogrodnick, Marc Savard, Stephane Richer, Mike O'Connell, Keith Yandle
PP 2: Gerard Gallant, Dave Gagner, Dave Christian, Pavel Kubina, Dmitri Yuskevich
PK 1: Murph Chamberlain, Rick Meagher, Rick Ley, Dmitri Yushkevich
PK 2: Dave Gagner, Gary Dornhoefer, Petr Svoboda, Pavel Kubina

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Good luck guys, I'll start trying to compare our first lines.

Savard is still a great top liner in the MLD following a smaller ATD. He's in rare company cracking a score of 70 for seven year weighted VsX scores.

Rank|Name|VsX score
1|Nicklas Backstrom|75.68
2|Marc Savard|73.88
3|Mike Ribeiro|71.94
4|Dennis Maruk|71.7

Smith is harder to get a pulse on considering his constant league-hopping. He did have some great showings in the leagues we're most familiar with though.

ECAHA goal finishes: 1st (1906 - ahead of Bowie, McGee, and Ernie Russell)
4th (1907 - behind Ernie Russell, Bowie, and Blair Russel)
NHA goal finish: 2nd (1910) behind E. Russell

SIHR has him on the ECAHA 1st AST in 1907 at center (E. Russell and Bowie were on the team as rovers, and B. Russel at rw)

Iain Fyffe's point allocation system has him ranked highly among MLDers.

|
Harry Oliver|105.3
Bob McDougall|98.2
Harry Smith|95.5
Carson Cooper|88.5
Allan Cameron|86.1
Tom Paton|84.5
Barney Stanley|83.6

I have a really hard time suggesting who was better, is this a push? Do Savard's efforts in the top league in the world put him ahead of Smith's years traveling? Does Smith's superior playoff record put him ahead?
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The other two comparisons involve pairs of NHLers so they're easier to digest.

Stephane Richer and Eddie Wiseman are the two scoring wingers on our lines.

Wiseman has a big edge in regular season scoring compared to Richer.

Seven year weighted VsX score
Wiseman: 72.5
Richer: 57.8

Richer did lead a Stanley Cup winner in scoring, finishing second in playoff scoring. Wiseman was second in scoring on a Stanley Cup winner, finishing second in playoff scoring and leading the playoffs in goals. I don't think Richer closes the gap considering playoffs.

Richer became a respectable two-way player in NJ, but it wasn't to the point of garnering Selke consideration. Wiseman was undersized, but he seems to have been feisty. I don't think either player is devoid of intangibles, but neither was a standout.
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Gallant and Bellows are the physical members of our lines.

Bellows had the superior peak season finishing 3rd in goal scoring and making the 2nd AST in 1990. He was more skilled than Gallant and put up better numbers. Gallant's scores are hurt by the amount of time he missed.

Seven year weighted VsX
Bellows: 64.9
Gallant: 48.5

In terms of the playoffs, Bellows led the North Stars in scoring when they made the SC finals and finished 4th in the playoffs overall. Bellows later won a Stanley Cup in Montreal, finishing third on the team in scoring but was outside of the top 10 overall.

Gallant finished second in scoring for the Wings in a 1987 Conference finals loss which was didn't crack the top 10 of playoff scoring.

In terms of a scoring ability Bellows had a good advantage.

Physical advantage would seemingly be a sweep for Gallant, but I was surprised how much the scouting reports praised Bellows's physical game.

Here are some snippets, including a claim that he is tougher than Gallant.

Bellows is a mucker and grinder. He's gaining strength as he gets older and he's using it better. He's become stronger along the boards and more able to take men off the puck and that complements his finesse game well, because Brian can certainly make plays after he has the puck. He will lean into opposition and hit, and Bellows will take the rough going for his plays.

Bellows combines tremendous scoring ability with excellent physical ability as one of the NHL's best-if unsung-power forwards...That strength and balance makes him almost unbeatable along the boards, his stride driving him through checks and his balance keeping him upright to continue making plays.

The media out of the midwest is one reason why people don't know how good a player Bellows is. He's tougher than Gallant and a better scorer than Tocchet, yet is virtually unmentioned when discussions rages about the League's best power forwards.

With this in mind, I think it's fair to say Bellows's offensive advantage gives him a good advantage over Gallant.
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All in all, I think Pittsburgh has the superior top line. The centers could go either way, but Pittsburgh's wingers are superior and provide a noticeable edge in offensive production.

 

[seventieslord]

Bellows really shouldn't fall to the MLD anymore, should he? He is definitely more physical that anyone gave him credit for. A capable 4th liner in the ATD, not as tough as the all-time toughies, but a much better scorer than most of them.

I'd say the same about Dubbie Kerr, though he's even more offensive and less physical. And hextall would be a good example of a guy on the other end of the spectrum from Kerr. Certainly there are three players these three can replace.

 

[tony d]

Sorry, been AWOL thus far, busy with work and had my birthday last week, will try to post something today or tomorrow.

 

[tony d]

Bellows vs. Gallant is an equal matchup; Bellows will provide more playmaking but I like Gallant's grit game a bit more and being that he more of an all grit guy that could come in handy for me.

Smith vs. Savard is a battle between the 2 catlysts of the top lines. I think Savard was the better player but injury concerns will hurt him.

Wiseman vs. Richer is a battle between the 2 goal scorers.I agree Wiseman is the better scorer but Richer offers a better all around game.

I think your 1st line is better offensively but my line is better overall all around.

Looking forward to a further rebuttal from you, Rob.

 

[seventieslord]

Richer has an all around game??

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Richer has an all around game??

He was a pretty good two-way player in NJ for a few years.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Bellows vs. Gallant is an equal matchup; Bellows will provide more playmaking but I like Gallant's grit game a bit more and being that he more of an all grit guy that could come in handy for me.

Smith vs. Savard is a battle between the 2 catlysts of the top lines. I think Savard was the better player but injury concerns will hurt him.

Wiseman vs. Richer is a battle between the 2 goal scorers.I agree Wiseman is the better scorer but Richer offers a better all around game.

I think your 1st line is better offensively but my line is better overall all around.

Looking forward to a further rebuttal from you, Rob.

I can see Richer's development into a good two-way guy later into his career making your line better defensively, but the gap created by this seems much smaller than offensive gap so I can't buy your line being better all around.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

For second lines

Here are the VsX 7 for our centers
Taylor 66.8
Krejci 55.2

Taylor has a short career like Krejci, but he was the more prolific regular season scorer by a decent margin. Krejci has the advantage in the playoffs leading them in scoring twice, Taylor finished 4th in playoff scoring the year he won the Stanley Cup. Krejci has picked up Selke votes and Taylor seems to have been just a scorer. Taylor's placement among pre-expansion centers is higher than Krejci's placement among post-expansion guys so I think Taylor gets the edge.
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Ogrodnick and Drozdetsky are the goal-scoring wingers on our lines. Ogrodnick has the nice peak making a 1st AST and finishing 3rd in AST voting another year. His VsX scores overall aren't that impressive outside of his peak however with a VsX 7 of 61.6.

Drozdetsky has a nice peak winning the Soviet POTY in 1982, but also lacked longevity. He finished 3, 3, 6, and 10 in the Soviet league for his four top ten finishes.

In terms of the playoffs, Ogrodnick scored 26 points in 41 games. 13 of those came in one year, and 9 in another. He scored 2 points (1 goal) in 7 games following the years he made the 1st and 3rd ASTs.

In terms of international competitions, Drozdetsky finished 4th in scoring in two World Championships and 3rd in the Olympics.

I think Drozdetsky gets the advantage here with the Soviet league success being carried into international competitions.
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VsX 7 for our glue guys
McNab 66.5
March 61.8

McNab has the offensive advantage over March in regular season performance. McNab also scored 82 points in 107 playoff games, including 2nd overall in the 1978 playoffs tied with Guy Lafleur as the Bruins lost in the finals. March's best finish was 5th in playoff scoring as the Hawks won the Stanley Cup in 1938. Again McNab gets the nod offensively.

As these are glue guys, I tried to dig up quotes from the Complete Handbook of Pro Hockey guides about McNab received Byng votes six times, including a second place finish and the scouting reports suggest he was a big man who used his size for goal scoring rather than dishing out punishment. There is also a mention that he was a solid two-way player.

1979
"One of his problems is a lack of aggressiveness for his size."

1981
"Size makes him difficult to move out near the goal crease...Suspended and fined last season for involvement in Madison Square Garden fracas started by unruly Rangers fans..."I'm not the type of person who believes in violence but when I saw my teammates being attacked by fans I reacted and went to their aid instinctively," McNab says of incident...Has only 61 penalty minutes in seven NHL seasons"

1982
"Hard to take out of play...Not fast but uses his size and bulk well in front of net..."

1983
"Husky Peter McNab who does his best work in close to the net...Solid all-around center who will always find a way to put puck in net."

1986
"Accurate shooter who uses size to score frequently from close to net..."

March's disadvantages seem to be the opposite. He was very aggressive, but he was small even for his era. The praise for his two-way game seems to be louder as well.

I think March brings the stronger intangibles, but McNab is the more potent offensive force here.
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I think Pittsburgh claims an advantage in second lines as well. McNab seems the only area the Caribous have an offensive edge.

 

[tony d]

As to the 2nd lines:

Ogrodnick vs. Drozdetsky: I think these 2 are pretty equal. Ogrodnick had some nice goal scoring finishes in the NHL as did Drozdetsky in the Russian leagues, who is better here depends on which of the playmaking centres does better in getting their goal scorer the puck.

Krejci vs. Taylor: Yeah, Taylor's a better player here. Krejci has the playoff advantage but overall Taylor's a better centre and may be better than some #1 centre's here.

Mcnab vs. March: Mcnab is better offensively but I agree with March's glue game being better than Mcnab's.

Overall this is a close battle, Krejci may bring my 2nd line down a bit especially going vs. someone like Taylor. Be interesting if Mcnab's offensive game outweights March's glue game.

 

[seventieslord]

Marsh is so close to McNab offensively that it's splitting hairs, anyway.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Moving to defense, Shmyr and Ley should make for a straight forward comparison.

WHA All-Star Teams
Shmyr: 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd
Ley: 1st, 2nd
Both won the WHA's Norris once

Shmyr received more all-star with two additional 1st AST nods and was the better player considering they both did their best work in the WHA.

AST votes for the rest of Pittsburgh's defense (using TDMM's method where it applies)
Kampman: 6, 7, 8
Jarrett: 7, 11, 14
Visnovsky: 4, 18

Clarenville:
O'Connell: 7, 10
Svoboda: 9, 13
Yandle: 5, 10

 

[tony d]

Shmyr is the best defenseman in this series IMO so no argument there. Ley should be able to hold his own though. Kampman's pretty good too but Yuskevich should match up well with him.

Visnovskys a good 1 and a guy me and Velo where targeting, in hindsight not picking him might be one of our biggest regrets from this draft. I like our defense but not getting Visnovsky stings.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Pittsburgh wins in 5 games