MLD 11 Standings and All-Star Teams

[seventieslord]

We ended up getting votes from 12 teams and 13 GMs.

Congratulations to the division winners:

Regina Capitals & North Pole Dancers!

Congratulations to the league MVP - Viktor Konovalenko!

Here are your first and second All-star Teams:

F-Lynn Patrick - F-Dan Bain - F-Valeri Kamensky
D-Dickie Boon - D-George McNamara
G-Viktor Konovalenko
Coach-Viktor Tikhonov

F-Brian Skrudland - F-Mike Ricci - F-Bronco Horvath
D-Moose Goheen - D-Brian Engblom
G-Tom Barrasso
Coach-Lindy Ruff
​

Most of the forwards with the most votes were centers (even though votes were segregated as a rule, there seemed to just be more agreement on the centers... or maybe it's just that there were half as many to vote on) Anyway, I thought I'd start by giving you the 6 best forwards instead of going by position.

But, with a lot of varied votes coming from 13 people, we have strong enough results to create two excellent, workable 24-man rosters - which I will present later, along with the full standings.

Pay attention to these rosters - these players should ALL be graduating to the ATD if/when we go from 28 to 32 teams!

First round to begin tonight.

Click to read more...

 

[Dwight]

Is there a standings post that I'm missing?

 

[Leafs Forever]

Division Winner?

Wow..I'm honored and suprised..thanks guys.

 

[Rzeznik]

Congrats to the division winners! Both of you guys had great squads.

I'm a little confused about the way you figured out the all-star teams, but they are good none the less. Very surprised to see Konovalenko ahead of Barrasso though. I know it's only opinion, but I thought it was pretty unanimous that Tom was the better goalie. I guess not.

 

[VanIslander]

congrats but... but... neither divisional winner was top-3 in my rankings i was out to lunch,... or you guys were

or the standings were close

 

[VanIslander]

...first and second All-star Teams:

F-Lynn Patrick - F-Dan Bain - F-Valeri Kamensky
D-Dickie Boon - D-George McNamara
G-Viktor Konovalenko
Coach-Viktor Tikhonov

F-Brian Skrudland - F-Mike Ricci - F-Bronco Horvath
D-Moose Goheen - D-Brian Engblom
G-Tom Barrasso
Coach-Lindy Ruff
​

I notice four things:

i) every one of those guys are all-time greats (though I overlooked McNamara and Engblom in my voting, opps)

ii) two teams have three all-stars each, Good drafting: the Bulls (Konovalenko, Boon, Skrudland) and Titan (Kamensky, Engblom, Ruff)

iii) none of Schmidts, Three-Wheelers, Mighty Moose have all-stars (which doesn't mean the teams aren't great)

iv) Jokerit has only Bain and no Bilyaletdinov-Pervukhin (despite an argument I thought compelling)

 

[VanIslander]

What if the Soviets and Czechoslovakians got together? Could they kick some all-time butt?!!

The Iron Curtains

Viktor Tikhonov
Jan Starsi

Valeri Kamensky - Slava Bykov - Andrei Khomutov
Sergei Kapustin - Viktor Zhluktov - Vladimir Vikulov
Konstantin Loktev - Yevgeny Babich - Boris Mayorov
Bohuslav Stastny - Josef Malecek - Nikolai Drozdetsky
Josef Golonka, Ladislav Trojak

Zinetula Bilyaletdinov - Vasili Pervukhin
Yuri Fedorov - Sergei Babinov
Oldrich Machač - Miroslav Dvorak
Alexei Gusarov, Nikolai Makarov

Viktor Konovalenko
Vladimir Myshkin

 

[VanIslander]

What if the pre-NHL era guys got together? Wouldn't they be the ultimate wild card team?

The Early Era Aces

Alf Smith, coach

Jimmy Gardner - Harry Smith - Cecil Blachford
Haviland Routh - Moose Watson - Billy Gilmour
Smokey Harris - Clarence McKerrow -Jack Findlay


Dickie Boon - Moose Goheen
Clem Loughlin - Jack Campbell
George McNamara - Howard McNamara
Hamby Shore - Fred Lake

Tom Paton
Bert Lindsay

Which of the following would take the remaining five (5) spots on the team, and why:

Bruce Ridpath, Skene Ronan, Fred Whitcroft, Billy McGimsie, Frank Rankin, Alf Skinner, Fred Scanlan, Walter Smaill, Oliver Seibert, Jack Ruttan, Phat Wilson, Dolly Smith

 

[Leafs Forever]

Alf Skinner definetly should be on this team; if you asked me, above Gilmour as 2nd line RW, but we won't get into that. He's a great 4th-liner; great goal-scoring and point record, gritty player, and a retro Conn Smythe.

McGimsie could also be a great extra on the team; great speedy goal-scorer and playmaker, often amongst league leaders in offense..coming 2nd and 3rd to guys like Tommy Phillips.

 

[VanIslander]

What if the present day NHLers tried to ice an all-time great team? ... eh... anyways, and for try-outs they scrimmaged as the past-glory veterans (Sun Setters) versus those with more (or more likely have more) to prove (Sun Risers):

Sun Setters

coach Lindy Ruff
ass. coach Marc Crawford

Ryan Smyth - Saku Koivu - Todd Bertuzzi
Steve Sullivan - Craig Conroy - Jamie Langenbrunner
Jay Pandolfo - Rob Niedermayer - Darcy Tucker
Brian Rolston - Pavol Demitra - Darren McCarty

Pavel Kubina - Dan Boyle
Darryl Sydor - Jason Smith
Bryan McCabe - Bret Hedican
Sheldon Souray

Nikolai Khabibulin
Olaf Kolzig
J.S. Giguere

vs.

Sun Risers

coach Randy Carlyle
ass. coach Peter Laviolette

Rick Nash - Brad Richards - Marion Gaborik
Simon Gagne - Ryan Getzlaf - Johan Franzen
Alex Tanguay - Marc Savard - Mike Richards
Patrick Marleau - Scott Gomez - Sami Pahlsson

Dion Phaneuf - Brian Campbell
Jay Bouwmeester - Ed Jovanovski
Mike Green

Miikka Kiprusoff
Henrik Lundqvist
Cam Ward​

At least two more are needed for the Sun Risers blueline and the four remaining candidates are: Mattias Ohlund, Andrei Markov, Chris Phillips, Wade Redden. Which ones have more to prove and are likely to increase their all-time stock?

 

[Hedberg]

Dion Phaneuf - Brian Campbell
Jay Bouwmeester - Ed Jovanovski
Mike Green
[/CENTER]

At least two more are needed for the Sun Risers blueline and the four remaining candidates are: Mattias Ohlund, Andrei Markov, Chris Phillips, Wade Redden. Which ones have more to prove and are likely to increase their all-time stock?

Markov certainly should be on the team (I'd rather have him than Campbell). And even though they're the same age, Boyle is more fitting on the "sun-risers" than Jovanovski.

 

[VanIslander]

Markov certainly should be on the team (I'd rather have him than Campbell). And even though they're the same age, Boyle is more fitting on the "sun-risers" than Jovanovski.

Campbell is obviously a Sun Riser with his age and last three all-star game appearances and seven years remaining on his $50+ million contract. There's no doubt about it, even if you think he won't do anything more to be remembered for in terms of hockey history.

Markov might improve his legacy. Ohlund too might in Tampa Bay. We simply don't know. They are getting older. The clock is ticking.

Like you, I think Boyle is more likely to improve his all-time stock in the coming few years than Jovo but it's personal opinion more than age and number of opportunities behind that judgement.

Anyways, I didn't split the present day NHLers into two camps to get into a debate about the future. This is NOT the forum for PROJECTION speculation. But there were so many present day NHLers drafted that it seemed natural to consider the younger vs. older NHLers in my little 'what if?' scenarios regarding picks in this draft of the next-best in hockey history.

 

[Hedberg]

Campbell is obviously a Sun Riser with his age and last three all-star game appearances and seven years remaining on his $50+ million contract. There's no doubt about it, even if you think he won't do anything more to be remembered for in terms of hockey history.

He should definitely be on the team, I was just saying I think Markov is a better defenceman than Campbell.

 

[seventieslord]

congrats but... but... neither divisional winner was top-3 in my rankings i was out to lunch,... or you guys were

or the standings were close

A little from column A, a little from column C...

Alf Skinner definetly should be on this team; if you asked me, above Gilmour as 2nd line RW, but we won't get into that. He's a great 4th-liner; great goal-scoring and point record, gritty player, and a retro Conn Smythe.

I agree that Skinner is underrated, big time.... BUT, he's a top-6 winger. There's no way I vote for him ahead of Clint Smith, Smokey Harris, Corb Denneny, Lynn Patrick, or Valeri Kamensky. To me, those five are no-brainers.

 

[Leafs Forever]

A little from column A, a little from column C...



I agree that Skinner is underrated, big time.... BUT, he's a top-6 winger. There's no way I vote for him ahead of Clint Smith, Smokey Harris, Corb Denneny, Lynn Patrick, or Valeri Kamensky. To me, those five are no-brainers.

I agree with that..but I was referring to the fact that Skinner should be on VanIslander's Early Era Ace team, and was picking from the candidates he listed.

 

[seventieslord]

Mickey Ion Division

1. Regina Capitals
2. Amherst Ramblers
3. Mighty Moose Of Manitoba
4. Tidewater Sharks
5. Laval Titan
6. Trenton Devils
7. Winnipeg Jets

Sir Allan Montagu Division

1. North Pole Dancers
2. Belleville Bulls
3. Jokerit Helsinki
4. Weyburn Red Wings
5. Kitchener Schmidts
6. Flatrock Three Wheelers
7. Toronto Morningstars

Playoff threads to be created shortly!

 

[chaosrevolver]

What if the pre-NHL era guys got together? Wouldn't they be the ultimate wild card team?

The Early Era Aces

Alf Smith, coach

Jimmy Gardner - Harry Smith - Cecil Blachford
Haviland Routh - Moose Watson - Billy Gilmour
Smokey Harris - Clarence McKerrow -Jack Findlay


Dickie Boon - Moose Goheen
Clem Loughlin - Jack Campbell
George McNamara - Howard McNamara
Hamby Shore - Fred Lake

Tom Paton
Bert Lindsay

Which of the following would take the remaining five (5) spots on the team, and why:

Bruce Ridpath, Skene Ronan, Fred Whitcroft, Billy McGimsie, Frank Rankin, Alf Skinner, Fred Scanlan, Walter Smaill, Oliver Seibert, Jack Ruttan, Phat Wilson, Dolly Smith

Allan Cameron anybody?

 

[seventieslord]

The All-Star Game rosters

First team:

Lynn Patrick - Dan Bain - Vladimir Vikulov
Valeri Kamensky - Bronco Horvath - Corb Denneny
Rejean Houle - Brian Skrudland - Jamie Langenbrunner
Jack Findlay - Mike Ricci - Konstantin Loktev
Herb Carnegie - Skene Ronan

Dickie Boon - George McNamara
Moose Goheen - Brian Engblom
Zinetula Bilyaletdinov - Moose Dupont
Slim Halderson

Viktor Konovalenko
Tom Barrasso

Viktor Tikhonov


Second team:

Clint Smith - Billy Taylor - Bill Goldsworthy
Herb Cain - Brad Richards - Mickey Redmond
Gord Fraser - Wayne Merrick - Mush March
Don Grosso - Brian Rolston - Rabbit McVeigh
Art Farrell - Shorty Green

Hobey Baker - Hy Buller
Oldrich Machac - Hamby Shore
Vassili Pervukhin - Robert Svehla
Jay Bouwmeester

Don Edwards
Mikka Kiprusoff

Lindy Ruff
​

The following 10 selections all came quite close to the 2nd all-star team, as each were named on numerous ballots, besides the ones submitted by their own teams. All came painfully close to making the cut for the 2nd team:

1. Ron Hextall, G
2. Josef Golonka, C
3. Glen Wesley, D
4. Dan Boyle, D
5. Mike Karakas, G
6. Syl Apps Jr., C
7. Eddie Gerard, Coach
8. Billy Coutu, D
9. Slava Bykov, C
10. Frank Patrick, Coach

 

[Leafs Forever]

No Harris? Aww..oh well, nice to see Patrick, Ricci, Taylor, Edwards, March, and Coutu get appreciated.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Allan Cameron anybody?

Definitely, Allan Cameron over Jack Campbell, Howard McNamara, Hamby Shore and Fred Lake.


Sorry guys, I thought I had make a great bio on him, but I see that Tom Paton is extremely underrated. The reality is that Paton is the 3rd (we could make the argument as #1, but I won't) best goaltender in this draft, taking as the #12 goaltender. He's the steal of the draft. He accomplished and won more than any goaltender in the ATD and furthermore, was at his best at crunch time.

With out 9th selection, the 139th overall selection in this year Minor League Draft, the Kelsinki Jokerit are extremely please to select goaltender Tom Paton

Trophy Case:

Stanley Cup (1893)
Championship (AHAC) Winner (1888, 1889, 1890, 1891, 1892, 1893)
Hart Memorial Trophy (1889*)
Vézina Trophy (1888*, 1889*, 1890*, 1891*, 1893*)

Wins League Leader (1888, 1889, 1890, 1891)
Goal Against Average League Leader (1888, 1889, 1890, 1891)

- According to Ultimate Hockey, the best glove hand of the 1800's
- According o Ultimate Hockey, the finest goaltender of the 1800's

Tom Paton was one of the founding members of the MAAA, an organization born when the montreal Lacrosse and Snowshoe club merged. Paton, or ''Tommy'' as fans knew him, put in 12 seasons on the Montreal Lacrosse Club and was apparently one of the ''trickiest'' player in the Dominion. He was a stellar goalkeeper, putting together solid efforts from 1887 through 1894 season. The short time he did spent playing for the MAAA was well spent indeed. He was, simply put, a gem.
In the 1889 final match, the Triple-A bashed the Montreal Victorias 6-1, thanks in large part to Paton's work between the pipes. According to records, he single-handedly kept the MAAA in the game long enough to ensure victory.
Paton was one of the finest goalies of the pre-NHL era.

Peak Years 1888-92
In a Word WINNER


Best regular season of the 1800's

The 1888 schedule culminated in an exciting one-game playoff between the MAAA and Montreal Victorias. The former took the title, winning 2-1 on the strenght of some fine goaltending by Tom Paton.

Earliest known hockey awards, given to Tom Paton in 1885

Multiples medals won by Tom Paton in the early 1880's in snowshoeing

Medals given to Tom Paton for his championship victory in 1888

First ever Stanley Cup Ring (1893) won by Tom Paton

 

[Leafs Forever]

I do believe Don Edwards as the 10th goalie taken can contest both of those.

 

[seventieslord]

Where the F is Harris, is exactly what I thought.

I was the only one who voted for him.

Paton is OK, but keep in mind what hockey was when he played. It was worlds away from what it would be when guys like Phillips and Stuart would star, which was still quite far away from what you would have seen when the NHA and PCHA were the top leagues.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Where the F is Harris, is exactly what I thought.

I was the only one who voted for him.

Paton is OK, but keep in mind what hockey was when he played. It was worlds away from what it would be when guys like Phillips and Stuart would star, which was still quite far away from what you would have seen when the NHA and PCHA were the top leagues.

:

Clearly I should have pimped him more..although being a first all-star in MLD10 (if I'm no mistaken), I did not expect only one person to vote for him.

I will have to try and rectify that.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I do believe Don Edwards as the 10th goalie taken can contest both of those.

I would love to hear the argument. This is what I see of Don Edwards:

-In general, a good-to-great regular season goaltender, who's play deteriorate come playoff time.
-Two great regular season, following two disappointing playoffs.
- Two 2nd All-Star Team
- 3rd in Calder
- 4th in Hart once
- 2 All-Star appearances
- A Vézina shared with Bob Sauvé under the old rules (so one Jenning)
- In his entire career, one playoff series win

I'm sorry, but read post #20 on Tom Paton, and you'll easily see the excellence and greatness of Tom Paton. Paton is the best goaltender of the 1800's and the best of ALL-TIME until the HHOF Hugh ''Eagle Eye' Lehman
-------------------------------------------------------
You wanna compare Don Edwards to someone, try this guy:

-In general, a good-to-great regular season goaltender, who's play deteriorate come playoff time.
- One 1st All-Star Team
- 3rd in Calder
- 3rd in Hart once
- 4 All-Star appearances
- A Vézina under the old rules (so one Jenning)
- Won multiple playoffs series, about 6.

XXX-Don Edwards
One 1st All-Star Team <= Two 2nd All-Star Team
3rd in Calder = 3rd in Calder
3rd in Hart once > 4th in Hart once
4 All-Star appearances > 2 All-Star appearances
A Vézina under the old rules (so one Jenning) = A Vézina under the old rules (so one Jenning)
Won multiple playoffs series, about 6. > one playoff series win
----------------------------------

Pretty close, only on stats I would give the edge to XXX, but the situation is that Don Edwards played on a lesser team I'll admit.

Who's XXX? Oh yea, Pete Peeters, our backup goaltender

 

[Leafs Forever]

Let me start by saying I don't appreciate you trying to drag Edwards though the mud, and I didn't say one bad word about Paton; just that Edwards contended the claims you made on him. Paton and Peeters are two guys we were looking at when we took Edwards, and I applaud you for getting them. Now, onwards:

Looking at purely all-stars is somewhat short-sighted in this context. Allow me to direct you to a post by seventies a while back in MLD11:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=17691031&postcount=265

Note, that Edwards comes above Peeters in both lists. S% isn't perfect certainly, but all-in-all Edwards has a better all-star record than Peeters does. A 2, 2, 3 is twice as good as a 1 is. Peeters does have the better hart vote, but Edwards still showed that he could keep that high level over a longer time, even if he doesn't have the 1-year peak Peeters does. I don't care about calder trophies; so the debate becomes playoffs.

I also don't care much for counting playoff series victories. Since when did that become the standard? Especially as it takes a whole team to win a series, not just a goalie. Edwards, to my knowledge, played on good regular season teams that didn't cut it in the playuoffs; but his story is filled with playoff chokers, and the blame is very rarely meant for only one person. Two modern day examples: Ottawa and San Jose- were those teams constant playoff failure really the fault of one player? It's not entirely Edwards fault that he has only 1 playoff series victory. I awknowledge that Edwards is not a great playoff goalie; it's why I went out and got Mowers,a great goalie in his own right with much more stanley cup and playoff success than Edwards, who can fill in and backstop our team through the playoffs if need be.

Ok, now as for the other claims: best goalie of the 1800's, sure, but who was he up against? To my knowedge, real organized hocey didn't start up until the late 1800's.

Now, as seventies mentioned, the league's in those days competition level was not what it was in the days of Edwards. Hockey was in it"s very early days: who was Paton really up against as the best goaltender of the time? How many goalies were even around to compete with at the time?