MLB Regular Season Thread - part 2

[Elvis P]

Wins may have limited use in baseball such as comparing 2 pitchers from equally good teams or making an argument for a good pitcher who may be Hall worthy, but may not get in. Mussina (123 ERA+) has a nice 270-153 .638 record and although it may not prove he's better than someone else, I don't mind it as a secondary argument for his Hall status.

 

[robert terwilliger]

they're too dependent on team success to measure an individual. it's like giving more credit to guys with large rbi totals.

to earn a win simply stay in for five innings and leave with a lead. any lead. 1-0 or 8-7. they're not an indicator of talent but a by-product of the quality of your team.

 

[542365]

Dan Winkler's injury was gruesome. That was really hard to watch.

 

[darko]

He clearly doesn't have the will to win.

I've been questioning his will to win since his debut.

 

[darko]

Wins may have limited use in baseball such as comparing 2 pitchers from equally good teams or making an argument for a good pitcher who may be Hall worthy, but may not get in. Mussina (123 ERA+) has a nice 270-153 .638 record and although it may not prove he's better than someone else, I don't mind it as a secondary argument for his Hall status.

I just find wins a silly argument full stop.

McHugh won 19 games last season with ERA a shade under 4. Soony Gray and DeGrom won 14 games each with ERAs in mid 2s.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Jose Quintana's middle initials are "ND"

 

[gopherman23]

How has Sano looked anyway?

Also is anyone concerned about Archer? His back half splits last year were not great, and this year he's been definitely having trouble to start.

Sano has been pressing lately. He needs to just be patient. The same thing can be said about pretty much the entire lineup sans Joe Mauer and Eduardo Escobar. If you would have told me, before the start of the season, that Joe Mauer's obp would be .519 6 games in and our starting pitching was actually pretty good through the first 6 as well, I would have thought that our record woukd have been at least .500.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

I can't bump the quote since the thread is locked but @Curtinho, I defended the Reds early when some were saying they'd be in the worst team conversation so I don't think most of us around here thought they'd lose 100 games. But I do agree with the others when they say "legit" means a playoff type contender, not that they'll finish 4th in the division. They'll certainly be competitive though.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=113904407&postcount=50

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah and to be clear I didn't necessarily mean everyone around here. I meant more the general discussion on the Reds from pundits and other websites (including RedsZone) seemed to be pretty negative and bunching them in with the worst teams in the league going into this season.

While I don't expect them to make the playoffs the upside is there from the young pitchers and there's enough bounceback potential from guys like Mesoraco, Bruce and Bailey to give them an outside shot at the wildcard, IMO. That's all, though they're obviously in a tough division.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Took my 5 year old son to the Braves/Cards game yesterday. He was legit in tears because of how bad the Braves are.


Awesome. Long season ahead.

 

[TootooTrain]

Jose Quintana's middle initials are "ND"

If we're going to have a layman's stat that can appeal everyone, quality starts should be more mainstream.

Wins and losses look nice when you're in the hall of fame as a cherry on top. But from season to season they should remain where they belong, in the standings.

 

[Shrimper]

Verlander at 55 pitches through 2 innings. Pirates making him work.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

Gallardo having trouble in the 1st.

 

[DougieSmash]

LOL, Gallardo...

 

[Pwnasaurus]

While I don't expect them to make the playoffs the upside is there from the young pitchers and there's enough bounceback potential from guys like Mesoraco, Bruce and Bailey to give them an outside shot at the wildcard, IMO. That's all, though they're obviously in a tough division.

Even at outside shot at the WC is a bit aggressive for me. If I were a fan, I'd use this season as an interested look at the young pitching, the rise of the Southbound Suarez and a hope that Bruce plays himself into some type of return at the deadline.

 

[Shrimper]

100 pitches up for Verlander, only in the 5th.

 

[DougieSmash]

Bases loaded for Crush.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

The Reds are not good. If they get to playoff contention, it's because lots of guys over performed.

 

[DougieSmash]

Trumbo goes deep. HR or nothing.

 

[rangerssharks414]

If we're going to have a layman's stat that can appeal everyone, quality starts should be more mainstream.

Wins and losses look nice when you're in the hall of fame as a cherry on top. But from season to season they should remain where they belong, in the standings.

The problem with quality starts is... is 3 ER in 6 IP (4.50 ERA) really a quality start? Yes, technically, it is, but is it really? And why is that a quality start when 4 ER in 9 IP (4.00 ERA) not a quality start if a start with a 4.50 ERA could be?

I hate pitcher wins, but quality starts has its flaws as well.

 

[YNWA14]

'Ace' pitchers getting blown up all over the place this year.

The Reds are not good. If they get to playoff contention, it's because lots of guys over performed.

There's a lot of unknowns on the team. Most of the young guys that they'll be playing this year, and there'll be a lot, are fairly highly regarded prospects. What makes them a bad team? Mostly inexperience. The guys they need to carry their offence really are Suarez, Votto and Bruce while there will be others that chip in and have performed well at different points, or at different levels.

The real question mark is surrounding the pitching staff and bullpen. The bullpen is probably the scariest part of the team, but the rotation with some combination of Bailey, Raisel, Disco, Finnegan, Lamb, Simon, and probably Stephenson and eventually Reed has a lot to offer.

But I guess it depends on semantics again. Do you mean a young player playing well is overperforming just because people expect the team to be bad? Anyway, even if the young guys don't step up there's still a pretty decent floor for the team IMO, but there's also a pretty decent upside if they do.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

'Ace' pitchers getting blown up all over the place this year.



There's a lot of unknowns on the team. Most of the young guys that they'll be playing this year, and there'll be a lot, are fairly highly regarded prospects. What makes them a bad team? Mostly inexperience. The guys they need to carry their offence really are Suarez, Votto and Bruce while there will be others that chip in and have performed well at different points, or at different levels.

The real question mark is surrounding the pitching staff and bullpen. The bullpen is probably the scariest part of the team, but the rotation with some combination of Bailey, Raisel, Disco, Finnegan, Lamb, Simon, and probably Stephenson and eventually Reed has a lot to offer.

But I guess it depends on semantics again. Do you mean a young player playing well is overperforming just because people expect the team to be bad? Anyway, even if the young guys don't step up there's still a pretty decent floor for the team IMO, but there's also a pretty decent upside if they do.

A young player overperforming is completely dependent on the young player. A guy like Finnegan being a back end arm is not over performing. That said, the Reds don't have the guys that you'd expect to be high level performers out of the gate. Hell, not many are even high ceiling guys.

 

[DougieSmash]

They are simply not that good to overcome a lot of above average teams that contend for Wild card. You count way too much in Homer Bailey (after injury) or Alfredo Simon (good #5, nothing more). Or Jay Bruce: second worst MLB player in last two seasons.

 

[TootooTrain]

The problem with quality starts is... is 3 ER in 6 IP (4.50 ERA) really a quality start? Yes, technically, it is, but is it really? And why is that a quality start when 4 ER in 9 IP (4.00 ERA) not a quality start if a start with a 4.50 ERA could be?

I hate pitcher wins, but quality starts has its flaws as well.

True enough. A Win simply has more baggage. All good points.

 

[Muston Atthews]

This Orioles outfield... Lol