Toggle sidebar

MLB Houston Astros accused of high tech sign stealing during World Series season 2017

LadyStanley

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
106,484
19,516
Sin City
Exclusive: MLB hands down unprecedented penalties for Astros...

Paywall. My, my, my, my, my!

The penalties, according to sources with knowledge of Manfred’s decision, include:

• A one-year suspension for general manager Jeff Luhnow.

• A one-year suspension for manager A.J. Hinch.

• The forfeitures of first- and second-round draft picks in both 2020 and ’21.

• A fine of $5 million, the maximum allowed under MLB’s constitution.

• The placement of former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on baseball’s ineligible list.
...
No players were disciplined. MLB instead chose to issue penalties to those who were in positions of authority. Taubman was disciplined for “his inappropriate conduct toward one or more female reporters at the American League Championship Series post-game celebration,” rather than involvement in the sign stealing, according to MLB’s report.
Click to expand...

Pretty severe penalty. Longest suspension since Pete Rose's lifetime ban in 1989. (Don't know if they can or will appeal suspensions.)

How they did it? Routed center field camera to just inside dugout, decoded signal, and banged on trash can to identify pitch.

Big black eye on baseball.
 
93LEAFS

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
33,959
21,029
Toronto
LT Dan said:
they should strip the championship as well
Click to expand...
No, NA sports league is ever going to strip a team of a championship. The MLB went a level below the furthest they would ever go, which is forced sale due to the belief of how ownership knew and reaped massive benefits. The MLB report went out of its way to clear Crane. Its one of the earliest statements in the report (not that I'm sure he should be forced to sell, just saying that is the furthest a Big 4 league in NA would go).
 
Lt Dan

Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
Sep 13, 2018
10,960
17,796
Bayou La Batre
youtu.be
93LEAFS said:
No, NA sports league is ever going to strip a team of a championship. The MLB went a level below the furthest they would ever go, which is forced sale due to the belief of how ownership knew and reaped massive benefits. The MLB report went out of its way to clear Crane. Its one of the earliest statements in the report (not that I'm sure he should be forced to sell, just saying that is the furthest a Big 4 league in NA would go).
Click to expand...
Remember that the all time hits leader is permanently banned from the game for betting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vegeta and dukeofjive
Jumptheshark

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,867
13,848
Somewhere on Uranus
93LEAFS

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
33,959
21,029
Toronto
Cyclones Rock said:
Rose was banned from baseball for betting on baseball while manager of the Reds not while he was playing.
Click to expand...
I know what he did. It was in response to someone saying they banned Rose for life in response to me saying that a big 4 league in NA would never strip a team of a title. They will never open that pandora's box. It's like they'll never strip McGwire or A-Rod of their home runs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cyclones Rock
Jumptheshark

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,867
13,848
Somewhere on Uranus
With Rose there is one big thing to remember-while he denied he bet on games his team was involved in, the people and evidence contradicted him. I remember a few years ago watching a special and one of the FBI guys explained that they had enough evidence to prove he bet on games the Red were involved in and that he bet against them
 
93LEAFS

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
33,959
21,029
Toronto
jumptheshark said:
With Rose there is one big thing to remember-while he denied he bet on games his team was involved in, the people and evidence contradicted him. I remember a few years ago watching a special and one of the FBI guys explained that they had enough evidence to prove he bet on games the Red were involved in and that he bet against them
Click to expand...
Even if he only bet for the Reds, he should be banned for life. Main reason is, if you are a manager of a team and you've bet on your own team, you may do things that are short-term more likely to win you the game, but damage your team long-term. Most of it is related to pitching staff usage, but here are two examples (one wasn't common view though at the suspension).

First, you are pitching your ace, and he's over 110 pitches, but he's throwing a shutout in the 8th. General knowledge from trainers or medical staff, is that guy shouldn't pitch anymore (this is a hypothetical, just picking a high pitch count number). You use that pitcher past the advised amount and risks a serious injury or does get injured. Any judgment on that is called into question.

Another, which was known at the time. You overuse your ballpen damaging the chances of using them to their capabilities in the next couple of games.

To not be viewed as terribly wrong, he would have to essentially prove he had no financial incentive to prioritize one game over the next, which is almost impossible given how it is almost impossible to equally bet on each game (because Moneyline will constantly give different returns or spreads are differing amount). If you are betting spread, you may have an interest in prioritizing getting one run over the long-term advantage if you after trailing by .5 against the spread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hynh and Tarantula
KevFu

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,184
3,413
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
LadyStanley said:
Here's why MLB didn't punish any players in Astros sign-stealing scandal
MLB believed Astros players could claim they didn't know using technology to steal signs was wrong.

Really? :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Two reasons:
1. The MLBPA would have put up a fight, so they quickly cut a deal of Immunity for the players in exchange for honest information about exactly what happened.

2. The victims of the sign stealing were 20 other teams in baseball and the 2017 Astros players in question are now spread out over 18 different teams. Penalizing the players involved would mean suspending players from the victim teams, like the Dodgers, Blue Jays, Rays, etc. The Mets got swept in Houston with banging on cans being easily heard as some guy teed off on a monster HR off a rookie. And because the Astros cheated, the Mets lost their manager, and if players were suspended, would lose their LF/3B and CF? Hardly seems fair.


Also, the Rose comparisons are ridiculously stupid. The MLB rulebook says certain things are illegal, but only lists the full penalties for two things: PEDs/Drugs, and gambling. It's not like scuffing a baseball, or just being a jerk, or even PEDs with Bonds and company cheating pre-rule changes. It's the most cut and dry thing in the history of baseball:

For the last 98 years the rule has been "Gamble and you're permanently banned forever." It was the rule for 67 years when Rose got busted. MLB makes big signs that say "TO PLAYERS AND MANAGERS
THIS IS PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL RULE 21, REGARDING GAMBLING, etc. Read it Carefully" and they are posted in multiple places in every MLB and Minor League clubhouse, and have been every single day at every single facility Pete Rose ever set foot in. For the entirety of his 30 years in baseball.

Any defense of Pete Rose's suspension from baseball is stupid. He was told "Gamble and you're banned for life" multiple times a day for 30 consecutive years, and he did it anyway.
 
LadyStanley

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
106,484
19,516
Sin City
MLB report: Red Sox sign-stealing 'far more limited in scope and impact' than Astros

Major League Baseball on Wednesday docked the Boston Red Sox their second-round draft pick and suspended a low-level team employee for systematically stealing catchers’ signs through technological means during the 2018 season, the second time in 2 ½ years the franchise has been disciplined by the commissioner’s office for similar infractions.

The investigation did not find evidence that the organization’s front office, manager Alex Cora or his coaching staff were aware of the actions of that employee — J.T. Watkins, who operated the club’s in-game replay system. Also, according to the investigation, the Red Sox scheme did not include direct communication between the dugout and the batter’s box (as in the case of the Houston Astros) and was limited to the 2018 regular season. The 15-page report called Watkins a “key participant” during a 2017 episode in which the Red Sox were found to have communicated with the replay room via an Apple watch.
Click to expand...

Red Sox fired him after being identified as part of Houston sign-stealing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom