Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Larcos_Unal]

Just in case, he should wear some depends.

Mitch is just a nice kid, he doesn't want to hurt anyone, he just wants to dangle between the legs and rip it top titty

 

[Stephen]

Hope he sleeps well tonight and is not getting too anxious.

I get the feeling of a lot of apathy setting into the fanbase about this playoffs. Like here we go again, whatever whatever. Maybe the players have a bit of that too: with all the expectations and nervous energy burned off they can just play their game properly and not get the annual stage fright when it matters. Just play free and eff it.

 

[Nineteen67]

I get the feeling of a lot of apathy setting into the fanbase about this playoffs. Like here we go again, whatever whatever. Maybe the players have a bit of that too: with all the expectations and nervous energy burned off they can just play their game properly and not get the annual stage fright when it matters. Just play free and eff it.

I think most fans see the Leafs as a middle of the pack team. Although there is a lot of hype and attention around the Leafs, they are similar to Nashville. Some really good players on both teams, yet it would take a Cinderella run to get to the SCF. That can happen, and we’ve seen it before when a guy like Kampf or Dewar gets hot.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I get the feeling of a lot of apathy setting into the fanbase about this playoffs. Like here we go again, whatever whatever. Maybe the players have a bit of that too: with all the expectations and nervous energy burned off they can just play their game properly and not get the annual stage fright when it matters. Just play free and eff it.

How can the fans or even many of the players feel differently when the same core cast are still there?

Marner and/or Nylander should have been moved in the offseason. Free up valuable Cap Space and bring in more of what is needed.

Nothing against Marner, but his skill is designed for the regular season. I've seen this show many times before, I think the Leafs beat a far better skilled Sens team four straight seasons in the playoffs? Well, we are now the Sens...

There is a major difference this playoff which could be a difference maker. Matthews has a new constituted First Line and one of Nylander and JT will have easier match ups. The back end is far stronger and Reaves brings a "I've got your back" level of protection. He will also forecheck and go to the net without any fear.

The greatest athletes thrive under pressure. Someone convince me that our best players, including Marner; can and will.

 

[ToneDog]

I get the feeling of a lot of apathy setting into the fanbase about this playoffs. Like here we go again, whatever whatever. Maybe the players have a bit of that too: with all the expectations and nervous energy burned off they can just play their game properly and not get the annual stage fright when it matters. Just play free and eff it.

I like Tyson's quote. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. I want to see what 16, 34 and 88 do after the Bruins punch them in the face. We know what 91 will do; skate away but he will not disappear.

 

[m1ker]

There is a major difference this playoff which could be a difference maker. Matthews has a new constituted First Line and one of Nylander and JT will have easier match ups. The back end is far stronger and Reaves brings a "I've got your back" level of protection. He will also forecheck and go to the net without any fear.

100%. I think it all comes down to Sammy this year

 

[DarkKnight]

I like Tyson's quote. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. I want to see what 16, 34 and 88 do after the Bruins punch them in the face. We know what will do; skate away but he will not disappear.

You know the Bruins are going to go after those guys, they’ve seen it work in the past. Keefe must prepare them for this fact, that’s Boston’s game plan and they have to push back or stay focused. There is nothing more maddening than watching these guys turtle when we know what is coming. I’d be happy with a saw off 5 v 5, decent PP production, and then have some our depth step up. I do believe we have more depth potential this year and that’s important to take some focus off simply stopping the big guys, game over.

 

[Stephen]

You know the Bruins are going to go after those guys, they’ve seen it work in the past. Keefe must prepare them for this fact, that’s Boston’s game plan and they have to push back or stay focused. There is nothing more maddening than watching these guys turtle when we know what is coming. I’d be happy with a saw off 5 v 5, decent PP production, and then have some our depth step up. I do believe we have more depth potential this year and that’s important to take some focus off simply stopping the big guys, game over.

I like my playoff hockey old school so I’d love nothing more than the Leafs to instigate all the trouble if I had it my way…

But as playoff success is often dictated by the team that can force a certain play style, I often wonder if turtling and turn the cheek hockey to get those special teams advantages is actually the way to go for this group of core guys… they can match intensity with other teams but I think it throws them off their rhythm and comfort level and they end up short circuiting their mid tempo puck possession comfort level.

Also what’s up with these 2 vs 1 scrum calls? The whole idea that the Leafs get an extra penalty for a post whistle face wash session is not legit. NHL you’ve been called out.

 

[Stephen]

I think most fans see the Leafs as a middle of the pack team. Although there is a lot of hype and attention around the Leafs, they are similar to Nashville. Some really good players on both teams, yet it would take a Cinderella run to get to the SCF. That can happen, and we’ve seen it before when a guy like Kampf or Dewar gets hot.

I don’t think we’re a middle of the pack team at all. I think we’re a poorly calibrated high end collection of top of the roster skill, a lot of psychological problems and emotional maturity issues. They’re both a resilient team, but also resilient because of their own fragility.

The idea of the team playing the meaningless games card, being done with the regular season and then failing on all their individual milestones under the spotlight. Just makes me think our star guys have too much of the stage fright and they make the moment too big for themselves.

Behaviourally I think most fans would be happy if we just had a minimum standard and some consistent work ethic and compete level like a Nashville.

 

[DarkKnight]

I like my playoff hockey old school so I’d love nothing more than the Leafs to instigate all the trouble if I had it my way…

But as playoff success is often dictated by the team that can force a certain play style, I often wonder if turtling and turn the cheek hockey to get those special teams advantages is actually the way to go for this group of core guys… they can match intensity with other teams but I think it throws them off their rhythm and comfort level and they end up short circuiting their mid tempo puck possession comfort level.

Also what’s up with these 2 vs 1 scrum calls? The whole idea that the Leafs get an extra penalty for a post whistle face wash session is not legit. NHL you’ve been called out.

That sounds like Babcock, when he said our toughness is our PP. I agree about turning the other cheek at times, but I really think we need to show we will go through adversity, not curl away. Last year for example, Matthews against Florida couldn’t get rid of the puck fast enough, the moment they closed on him. Mitch went to the outside, never cut in, then got rubbed out on the wall. Nylander curling away, JT disappearing. They don’t have to punch back ( but we have others that will), just keep fighting through, instead of moving away. That’s all I ask, it’s going to be a tough series and they will be challenged, fail, but have to show the mental fortitude to persevere, especially Mitch and Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

That sounds like Babcock, when he said our toughness is our PP. I agree about turning the other cheek at times, but I really think we need to show we will go through adversity, not curl away. Last year for example, Matthews against Florida couldn’t get rid of the puck vast enough, the moment they closed on him. Mitch went to the outside, never cut it, then got rubbed out in the wall. Nylander curling away, JT disappearing. They don’t have to punch back ( but we have others that will), just keep fighting through, instead of moving away. That’s all I ask, it’s going to be a tough series and they will be challenged, fail, but have to show the mental fortitude to persevere, especially Mitch and Matthews.

I think it comes down to Auston. He’s a 6’4” 220 pound number one elite center who is supposedly a Selke level forward who gives you 70 goals. If he took up the space on the ice, went into traffic and was physically assertive, that’s the lead alpha we need to be in the big moments and dominant each shift. The formula stops working when the goals go away in moderately difficult situations and he starts turning over pucks to guys like Barkov that cripple the team.

Everyone needs to follow his lead but my concern is the moment and spotlight gets too overwhelming for him.

Mitch is just Mitch. Let him contribute in his own way or course, but he doesn’t have the build or the will to get into the heat of the battle.

 

[Notsince67]

That sounds like Babcock, when he said our toughness is our PP. I agree about turning the other cheek at times, but I really think we need to show we will go through adversity, not curl away. Last year for example, Matthews against Florida couldn’t get rid of the puck vast enough, the moment they closed on him. Mitch went to the outside, never cut it, then got rubbed out in the wall. Nylander curling away, JT disappearing. They don’t have to punch back ( but we have others that will), just keep fighting through, instead of moving away. That’s all I ask, it’s going to be a tough series and they will be challenged, fail, but have to show the mental fortitude to persevere, especially Mitch and Matthews.

 

[stickty111]

Marner is the big question. If he can become what his talent suggests in the playoffs, it changes the entire team.

 

[ToneDog]

I think it comes down to Auston. He’s a 6’4” 220 pound number one elite center who is supposedly a Selke level forward who gives you 70 goals. If he took up the space on the ice, went into traffic and was physically assertive, that’s the lead alpha we need to be in the big moments and dominant each shift. The formula stops working when the goals go away in moderately difficult situations and he starts turning over pucks to guys like Barkov that cripple the team.

Everyone needs to follow his lead but my concern is the moment and spotlight gets too overwhelming for him.

Mitch is just Mitch. Let him contribute in his own way or course, but he doesn’t have the build or the will to get into the heat of the battle.

Reading this going into their 8th playoffs tells me these guys do not have what it takes to win in the playoffs, when they play for keeps, no matter what Shanny and the fanboys say. Sorry, can't change the spots on a leopard. Seeing Willie doing his famous flybys and avoiding contact, Mitch skating everywhere in the O zone except to the dirty areas is more than enough to confirm it. But hey let's see if anything changes in their 9th playoff series.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I actually think Marner is still lingering from that injury and he'll be pretty ineffective come playoff time.

Keefe is best to use him for his special teams' abilities and try to shelter him against top lines 5 on 5, playing a third line role, so that he drive depth scoring play.

JMO

 

[authentic]

I actually think Marner is still lingering from that injury and he'll be pretty ineffective come playoff time.

Keefe is best to use him for his special teams' abilities and try to shelter him against top lines 5 on 5, playing a third line role, so that he drive depth scoring play.

JMO

Unfortunately I believe this to be the case... Would love to be wrong on this one but I do not see any signs of him being near his actual best. He's not scoring 11 points like he did last year against Tampa let's put it that way.

 

[666]

Great post.

"Look at the reaction. This isn't just about winning a game, it's about a moment as a teammate."

Who on earth wouldn't want Marner on their team?

 

[Nineteen67]

I don’t think we’re a middle of the pack team at all. I think we’re a poorly calibrated high end collection of top of the roster skill, a lot of psychological problems and emotional maturity issues. They’re both a resilient team, but also resilient because of their own fragility.

The idea of the team playing the meaningless games card, being done with the regular season and then failing on all their individual milestones under the spotlight. Just makes me think our star guys have too much of the stage fright and they make the moment too big for themselves.

Behaviourally I think most fans would be happy if we just had a minimum standard and some consistent work ethic and compete level like a Nashville.

I think you just gave a synopsis of one of the reasons why they are a middle of the pack team.

 

[Nineteen67]

We all thought they had something great when he did that, but for some reason that level of commitment hasn’t been the norm for this core.

 

[Notsince67]

We all thought they had something great when he did that, but for some reason that level of commitment hasn’t been the norm for this core.

We need a positive response from the third and 4th lines. As long as they net to zero, the leafs have a good chance

 

[Lightsol]

The greatest athletes thrive under pressure. Someone convince me that our best players, including Marner; can and will.

We played Boston in the playoffs twice before with this core. Both series, one of the Big 3 stepped up and killed them until the Andersen Game 7 meltdowns, and a lot of people have entirely forgotten that the first series it was Mitch Marner... Because he was playing with Kadri and was mostly ignored by the Bruins, who were focused on shutting down Matthews. And in the second series, Boston focused on shutting down Tavares and Marner, and it was Matthews that killed them.

Also, their two keys to shutting down the Leaf offense in those series were Zdeno Chara and Patrice Bergeron. And they're both retired.

 

[ToneDog]

We all thought they had something great when he did that, but for some reason that level of commitment hasn’t been the norm for this core.

Agreed was going to ask, when was the last time since have we seen such commitment. Was thinking first thing the other 3 said to him was "WTF were you thinking?".

 

[Gary Nylund]

How many months was it before you flipped and how many times since have you flopped? I doubt you even know.

Players don't sign two month contracts because most people know that they aren't robots.

At least you have to give some credit to the guys who really don't like Marner. They at least have integrity for sticking to their guns even if they are wrong.

Again, when these playoffs are over Marner (and the other core players), will be the same players that they are today. Either you comprehend that or you don't. Think.

It's a team sport. It won't be up to Marner (or any other individual) to win it or lose it. No matter what happens, Conn Smythe or four and out, he's getting re-signed at somewhere between Nylander and Matthews because that's his value. Constantly flip-flopping and whining about it wont change a thing.

I believe I've answered your questions many times over over the last few years. Feel free to read my old posts over again if you've forgotten, not sure what else to tell you.

 

[Antropovsky]

all this talk about Tavares disappearing in the playoffs. He operated similarly in the 2023 playoffs as he did in the season. I think that should be our minimum expectations...for players to play similar to the way did in the season.

Meanwhile... Marners game changed substantially as you can see from the analysis done by the sportsnet author. Once one player changes their game substantially (operating further from the net), it affects all the teammates and linemates whi need to adapt.

Ask yourself this:

Do you want the 11 million player in the 2023 playoffs who took twice as many inner slot shots then his next linemate?

Or the 11 million player with the worst slot shots amongst the forwards in the playoffs (by more than 10%) and player taking shots 10' further from the net then season, and furthest away amongst the core 4 (40')?

Sportsnet article below:

But still, everyone is shooting from farther way (measured in average feet from the net per shot).

Average shooting distance
Imagine tacking two, or four feet, on to every shot you take in the regular season and expecting the same results. Let alone nearly 10.

Another way to look at this is by “portion of shots from the slot.” This is just compared to themselves — are they getting the same quality looks they usually get per shot? The answer, outside of Matthews, is a pretty clear “no.”

Percentage of shots from the slot
Marner’s “portion of shots from the slot” percentage was last on the Leafs in the playoffs by over 10 per cent. Michael Bunting, another important forward for them, saw his percentage drop from 63.5 per cent (second best in regular season) to 57.1 percent.
And second, in terms of successful (as in, they landed on net) shots taken from the inner slot in the playoffs, John Tavares had twice as many as the next best Leafs player with 20 in just 11 games. That he only had four playoff goals is crazy; he’s the only guy who can really make a claim to have gotten “unlucky” with his post-season output (his secondary assists also dried up, which is partially bad luck).

 

[Leafsfan74]

all this talk about Tavares disappearing in the playoffs. He operated similarly in the playoffs as he did in the playoffs. I think that should be our minimum expectations...for players to play similar to the way did in the season.

Meanwhile... Marners game changed substantially as you can see from the analysis done by the sportsnet author. Once one player changes their game substantially (operatonf further from the net), it affects their linemates and the team.

Sportsnet article below:

But still, everyone is shooting from farther way (measured in average feet from the net per shot).

Average shooting distance
Imagine tacking two, or four feet, on to every shot you take in the regular season and expecting the same results. Let alone nearly 10.

Another way to look at this is by “portion of shots from the slot.” This is just compared to themselves — are they getting the same quality looks they usually get per shot? The answer, outside of Matthews, is a pretty clear “no.”

Percentage of shots from the slot
Marner’s “portion of shots from the slot” percentage was last on the Leafs in the playoffs by over 10 per cent. Michael Bunting, another important forward for them, saw his percentage drop from 63.5 per cent (second best in regular season) to 57.1 percent.

I didn't even need this data, the eye test tells me all I need to know.

It is why I have been pushing for certain change and Brad was too new here, the corporation too rigid, the market perhaps too light, (the desire to appease Matthews too strong?) to make the necessary changes.

This is the post season where players can put their reputations to bed. Some players can help a borderline team make the playoffs. What Leafs need is a performer for a team that MAKES the playoffs perennially.