Speculation: Mitch Marner Mega Thread Part 5 (Warning in OP)

[biotk]

Matthews getting a NMC in his 5th year of his RFA contract.

So did Stamkos, Tavares, Crosby, Malkin - everyone. You claim the opposite. You are wrong.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

But looks pretty much like it..

14th most points at his position in 2 years prior to signing, 10th highest salary. Couldn't be much more reasonable.

 

[biotk]

Sure it matters, if he doesn't feel the offer is close to his value, he doesn't have to sign it.

So?

It also matters in that if you do get him signed at something well below what he thinks he is worth than I doubt he is going to be a very happy member of your organization.

So?

Matthews is a better player, but Marner is the better producer. They came into the league at the same time and on the same team, one has 20 points more than the other one.

So? Leafs management knows far more about these two players than any of us on here. They view the one as being worth much, much more than the other over the next 5 years. They could be wrong, but they would not be doing their jobs if they said, oh well, we don't think Marner is worth close to as much as Matthews, but we are going to pay him Matthews money so he doesn't have a case of the sads.

Matthews is a player that teams build their franchise around. Marner is a player who has produced well while playing with a franchise center. If a team wants to OS him they can go right ahead.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

He can just as easily not re-sign on July 1st when his NMC kicks in and have complete control over his future. If he wants out, he can go. It was dumb to give him that.

What other franchise player got that in his final RFA season? Name them... if you can. Stamkos didn't have that. Neither did your #2C. Who?

What in the world are you talking about. Loads of players have NMC in their RFA deals. Including, Steven Stamkos.

 

[PWJunior]

So did Stamkos, Tavares, Crosby, Malkin - everyone. You claim the opposite. You are wrong.

You are correct, my mistake on Stamkos, Crosby, and Malkin.

John Tavares - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I was pretty focused on his limited NTC since that was freshest in my mind.

I wonder if Dubas gives it to Marner as well.

 

[MtoD]

What in the world are you talking about. Loads of players have NMC in their RFA deals. Including, Steven Stamkos.

RFA years cannot have NTC or NMC per the CBA, so that would be interesting.

You can sign a deal that covers both RFA and UFA years and have a NMC kick in during the UFA years, but it wouldn't exist for the RFA years.

 

[PWJunior]

RFA years cannot have NTC or NMC per the CBA, so that would be interesting.

You can sign a deal that covers both RFA and UFA years and have a NMC kick in during the UFA years, but it wouldn't exist for the RFA years.

Only the UFA years are eligible. Now that these super RFA's get UFA money, that's the only big benefit that UFA's have.

 

[MtoD]

Matthews getting a NMC in his 5th year of his RFA contract.

That's because the 5th year is a UFA year, not a RFA year.

7 accrued seasons = UFA
3 ELC + 4 RFA years = 7 seasons

You cannot have a NMC/NTC during an RFA year.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

RFA years cannot have NTC or NMC per the CBA, so that would be interesting.

You can sign a deal that covers both RFA and UFA years and have a NMC kick in during the UFA years, but it wouldn't exist for the RFA years.

Yes, I was more replying to the poster saying that no player who signed an RFA contract similar to Matthews had a NMC in their final year.

Funny looking at Malkins RFA contract with the Pens. Unless it's listed wrong, it shows a full NMC for the entire 5 years.

Evgeni Malkin - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Funk21]

With no offersheets from another team, I think he should have gotten the deal done much sooner. I highly doubt 6.9 mill was anywhere near Duba's initial offer.

They stated that they wanted a deal between Ehlers and Pasta which would have put Nylander at 6.5. Nylanders camp wanted 8.5. He got paid 250-500K too much at 6.9.

Now to avoid the terrible year that he had and the distraction it caused Dubas should have said privately we are not going above 6.5 and if you don’t think that is fair we have two options we will try to trade you or you can sit but we ain’t trading you for pennies on the dollar. It was a poor play on both parties.

 

[MtoD]

Yes, I was more replying to the poster saying that no player who signed an RFA contract similar to Matthews had a NMC in their final year.

Funny looking at Malkins RFA contract with the Pens. Unless it's listed wrong, it shows a full NMC for the entire 5 years.

Evgeni Malkin - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Yea, that's definitely incorrect on both counts. Almost all high profile RFAs get NTC/NMC during their UFA years.

Same with Malkin. Only that last year should have an NMC. Less media coverage/interest back then though.

 

[PredsHead]

So? Leafs management knows far more about these two players than any of us on here. They view the one as being worth much, much more than the other over the next 5 years. They could be wrong, but they would not be doing their jobs if they said, oh well, we don't think Marner is worth close to as much as Matthews, but we are going to pay him Matthews money so he doesn't have a case of the sads.

Matthews is a player that teams build their franchise around. Marner is a player who has produced well while playing with a franchise center. If a team wants to OS him they can go right ahead.

So he can sit out just like Nylander did if he doesn't like Dubas' offers. Also you don't think it matters that Marner would be pissed about his contract, in Toronto? How much will the Toronto media make of it every time he has anything but a smile on his face? "Is Mitch mad?" "Does he want out?" Not only would his attitude affect his play, but it could start affecting others if those things become an everyday distraction. Your coach seems to think a bit more of Marner than you do since he puts him on the ice more than your franchise center.

Rightly or wrongly, centres get paid 12% more than wingers. If production is equal, that puts Mitch at $10.2.

Not doubting the validity of that, but it needs a bit of context. Is that for all four lines or just top six players? Because these are both top line players we are comparing, so what happens between 3rd or 4th line players isn't really relevant. Does being a team's leading scorer factor in that?

 

[biotk]

Only the UFA years are eligible. Now that these super RFA's get UFA money, that's the only big benefit that UFA's have.

I don't really know why people think that younger players should be denied benefits.

 

[biotk]

So he can sit out just like Nylander did if he doesn't like Dubas' offers. Also you don't think it matters that Marner would be pissed about his contract, in Toronto? How much will the Toronto media make of it every time he has anything but a smile on his face? "Is Mitch mad?" "Does he want out?" Not only would his attitude affect his play, but it could start affecting others if those things become an everyday distraction. Your coach seems to think a bit more of Marner than you do since he puts him on the ice more than your franchise center.

You make Mitch sound terrible. Hope the Leafs trade him rather than deal with that kind of attitude.

 

[biotk]

Funny looking at Malkins RFA contract with the Pens. Unless it's listed wrong, it shows a full NMC for the entire 5 years.

Evgeni Malkin - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Even though Malkin signed and started in the NHL a year after Crosby, he like Ovechkin, were not bound to some of the new CBA rules because they were drafted a year prior. On their ELC's both Malkin and Ovi made more than Crosby was eligible to make and I believe that was why Malkin was eligible to have a NMC during his RFA years after his ELC.

 

[nyscene]

I seem to recall about a decade ago that it was revealed that the whole IB persona was fabricated by a group of folks who wanted to see how far they could get by writing fake sports rumours based on trends they saw amongst fanbases.

Surely someone else remembers what I'm referring to, was it indeed IB? This situation certainly fits the bill as the whole Marner offersheet from the Islanders thing started out right here on HFBoards last summer.

I don’t remember that but I remember an islander board making up a purposefully false rumor just to f*** with Eklund since he was taking scoops from that board.

 

[PWJunior]

I don't really know why people think that younger players should be denied benefits.

The NHL salary landscape is rapidly changing, the NHL middle class is getting squeezed hard.

While these RFA's do deserve the money based on their production, what's left for these UFA's that are slowly seeing their money decrease and being given to the kids? In a sense, the NTC/NMC protection is earned through tenure.

It might change in the future, but that'll really change the market if these kids start getting that too.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The NHL salary landscape is rapidly changing, the NHL middle class is getting squeezed hard.

While these RFA's do deserve the money based on their production, what's left for these UFA's that are slowly seeing their money decrease and being given to the kids? In a sense, the NTC/NMC protection is earned through tenure.

It might change in the future, but that'll really change the market if these kids start getting that too.

Kevin Hayes just got a 50 MILLION dollar contract. I think he’s doing quite alright. Is he not the epitome of the NHL middle class?

 

[PWJunior]

Kevin Hayes just got a 50 MILLION dollar contract. I think he’s doing quite alright. Is he not the epitome of the NHL middle class?

There are always exceptions, but he clearly benefitted from his UFA status. It's the guys on the tiers below him that are feeling it, the bottom-6'ers.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

There are always exceptions, but he clearly benefitted from his UFA status. It's the guys on the tiers below him that are feeling it, the bottom-6'ers.

I would call them the lower class, but in that case, you can refer to guys like Ben Chiarot and Brandon Tanev. Everybody is getting paid more because the cap is up.

The one big change that I see is RFAs are getting paid more and they’re also taking up more term. Everything else is how it’s always been.

 

[PredsHead]

You make Mitch sound terrible. Hope the Leafs trade him rather than deal with that kind of attitude.

Because he is unhappy with how the Leafs negotiated? I would be just as upset or more with Dubas for how he has handled this whole thing more than Marner, but thats just me. There is a reason almost everyone in hockey media has been saying since Tavares signed that this could not work long term. That signing meant that Matthews couldn't make less than $11M and Marner would have to be pretty close to that as well. Its not just a raw numbers game, you are dealing with human beings and they have emotions that have to be factored in when making these decisions. Colorado is having to deal with something similar. Rantanen should probably be making somewhere close to the $9M range, but its going to be tough for Colorado to pay him that much more than MacKinnon. They are going to have to be careful that Rantanen's new deal doesn't create a problem in the locker room.

 

[Cotton]

So he can sit out just like Nylander did if he doesn't like Dubas' offers. Also you don't think it matters that Marner would be pissed about his contract, in Toronto? How much will the Toronto media make of it every time he has anything but a smile on his face? "Is Mitch mad?" "Does he want out?" Not only would his attitude affect his play, but it could start affecting others if those things become an everyday distraction. Your coach seems to think a bit more of Marner than you do since he puts him on the ice more than your franchise center.



Not doubting the validity of that, but it needs a bit of context. Is that for all four lines or just top six players? Because these are both top line players we are comparing, so what happens between 3rd or 4th line players isn't really relevant. Does being a team's leading scorer factor in that?

Toronto media? You're reaching so hard, lol.

 

[PredsHead]

Toronto media? You're reaching so hard, lol.

You honestly think that if Marner signs a deal he is unhappy with, it wouldn't be a big story in Toronto? That the media wouldn't scrutinize over his every action to try and find some hidden motivation?

 

[Notsince67]

Jesus...he didn't cave into Nylander....

If nylander is worth 7, Marner is worth at least 11

 

[biotk]

The NHL salary landscape is rapidly changing, the NHL middle class is getting squeezed hard.

While these RFA's do deserve the money based on their production, what's left for these UFA's that are slowly seeing their money decrease and being given to the kids? In a sense, the NTC/NMC protection is earned through tenure.

It might change in the future, but that'll really change the market if these kids start getting that too.

Pretty much every terrible contract on the market is a UFA contract. Every GM knows that is the case. That is what has allowed things to shift towards a rebalancing for RFA salaries.