Missing the Playoffs would cause a shift in philosophy.

[BinCookin]

I see alot of negativity on these boards whenever we lose, maybe thats just what HF is.

I however think we have a pretty good team (not great) and since alot of posters here want GREAT or nothing...

I pose this simplistic question:

IF we missed the playoffs, do you think this would cause a philosophy change towards more of a rebuild, or just "continue with the plan"? Would you think this is a good thing? (Have to realize, teams very rarely "rebuild" while they are playoff teams, you usually have to miss the playoffs at least once to get this culture change)

Click to read more...

 

[HockeyinHD]

Ordinarily, it would.

Two years out from a new building? It won't. It can't.

Detroit can't open a new building with a garbage team. It is not a possibility. You cannot fleece a moribund city for hundreds of millions of dollars and then say hello with a 25 win monstrosity. They can open a building with a playoff team.

The new building now sets the strategy for the organization for AT LEAST the next 5 years.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I doubt holland does it. But if he misses he probably retires anyway

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If the Wings miss by 1-2 points? No. Ken Holland could spin that 50 different ways which would absolve him of responsibility.

The way i see it, the Wings are already tanking. They are just doing it really inefficiently. The bottom is going to fall out by the end of next season. Might as well get it over with.

 

[Frk It]

If the Wings miss by 1-2 points? No. Ken Holland could spin that 50 different ways which would absolve him of responsibility.

This x 100

That said, I wouldn't hate a pick in the 10-14 range. Unless Mrazek steals a series we are looking at another stomping like Boston in 14' or Nashville in '12.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I doubt holland does it. But if he misses he probably retires anyway

Possibly in 2 years when his contract is up, I don't see Holland retiring but he could go elsewhere.

 

[GMR]

A change of philosophy would have to begin from the top.

For starters, Ilitch will have to care again. Forget about the Tigers for a minute and focus on the Wings. I get the impression the Ilitch family are not putting a lot of pressure on Holland to build a contender. We've been a mediocre team for the last 5 years, but ownership seems to understand we don't have the horses anymore. Still, ownership needs to put more pressure on Kenny to get the horses. If you're going to paste "Hockeytown" on your center ice logo, it better represent a team that is above average.

Also, Holland has been in Detroit forever. Do you expect him to suddenly change his philosophy after all this time? I don't. Especially if there's no pressure from ownership as stated above. Holland is trying, but he's set in his ways and knows he won't be fired. He has immunity at his job.

The coach is even less important. Changing coaches can sometimes bring about drastic changes, but coaches aren't usually the top of an organization's food chain. Also, as we've discovered, Blashill is not much different than Babcock in his philosophy. I don't see Kenny bringing in someone who's going to upset our normal way of doing things.

I don't believe missing the playoffs this year would immediately result in Ilitch putting his foot down or Holland doing things differently. If anything, Blashill will likely become the scapegoat and be fired. Read above why that by itself won't likely change much in the long run.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

We definitely need to start building a team around both Larkin and Mrazek, And i know that's easier said then done. We need to revamp our D When you've Richards and Helm on your 2nd line you know you're in big trouble when's Blashill going to realize it's not working once the season is done and we're barely a bubble team just can't figure him out sometimes. But i agree we can't afford to go into our new building next year with a mediocre team and unless the cap rises i see some more ELCs on the team next year like AA possibly Mantha.

 

[Winger98]

If you mean rebuild in the sense that we essentially ditch the idea of winning and shoot for top-5 picks, I don't think that happens regardless of where we finish. To fall to that level of futility I think we'd have to sell off a TON of assets for essentially no return outside of futures. Something I'm not sure why we would want to do under any circumstances.

Regardless of whether or not we make the playoffs, I think we'll see the same off-season. Teams won't be interested in trading for Smith/Kindl, so at least one of them will just be buried. We won't have the cap space to re-sign Quincey, Helm, or to pursue one of the bigger free agents, so we won't get help that way. We'll see some promotions from within, and some re-working of the lines.

Maybe the cap will go up and it'll give us some breathing room, but between not being able to unload some contracts and raises to Dekeyser and Mrazek, I still doubt we'll have the cap space to go after a legit upgrade to the club.

 

[ap3x]

Considering that it's been a while that we went deep in the playoffs, but didn't miss them for ages though,
I'm not really sure how missing them would influence our "philosophy". As cool as that streak is, not really a
fan of being in between both scenarios for that long anyways (more or less limping in and 1st round exit or missing them
completely).

U wasted lots of time and energy for nothing, while missing out on greater picks that could compensate for being out
of the frame once. Not to mention that time's running against us, as our valuable core (Z, Dats, Kronner) is having less and less left in their tank.

Not expecting Holland to change much, as long as we don't miss as a team at the bottom of the division after 82 games played...

 

[mindfly]

Richards and Green must regret their decision signing here.. They must have had 07-09 wings in their mind still when making that decision.

 

[InjuredChoker]

This x 100

That said, I wouldn't hate a pick in the 10-14 range. Unless Mrazek steals a series we are looking at another stomping like Boston in 14' or Nashville in '12.

picking in the 10-14 range is the worst thing in pro sports.

 

[Frk It]

picking in the 10-14 range is the worst thing in pro sports.

Picking in the 10-14 range, or 15-20 range after getting demolished in 5 games in the playoffs...

Which would you rather?

 

[Pavels Dog]

IF we missed the playoffs, do you think this would cause a philosophy change towards more of a rebuild, or just "continue with the plan"?

Wait... what do people think Holland is doing? I mean we've been in rebuild-mode for almost 5 years now.

I think when people say "rebuild", they mean "tank". Is that right? Becasue no, I don't think missing the playoffs would lead Holland to try and tank this team. That would require trading away Mrazek and Larkin and possible a few other important players. There's no need to do that.

"The plan" is to stay competitive while rebuilding. Missing the playoffs would only give us a better draft pick to spend on good talent that helps us become more competitive more quickly. We're not going to force a tank just because of some fan-made idea that it's the only way to be successfull.

Picking in the 10-14 range, or 15-20 range after getting demolished in 5 games in the playoffs...

Which would you rather?

How many times in the last 24 years have we been "demolished" in 5 games in the playoffs? A handful? I'll take a 15-20 pick and a chance in the playoffs over a 10-14 pick, no playoffs and maybe a 1% better chance at a good player in the draft.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Picking in the 10-14 range, or 15-20 range after getting demolished in 5 games in the playoffs...

Which would you rather?

i'm not so big on the playoff streak as i used to be but i'd probably still prefer to make the playoffs. that would be more attractive for other players who wings might trade for/sign. plus i like many of the players on the team and would like to see them make it.

but pick in the 10-14 range if it's better for long-term. draft is a bit of a crapshoot and i don't know if the prospects at 15-20 range are close to as good as 10-14 range. and missing the playoffs might force some changes that are better for the wings long-term.

but since that is not certain, yeah, i'd prefer to make the playoffs.

Wait... what do people think Holland is doing? I mean we've been in rebuild-mode for almost 5 years now.

I think when people say "rebuild", they mean "tank". Is that right? Becasue no, I don't think missing the playoffs would lead Holland to try and tank this team. That would require trading away Mrazek and Larkin and possible a few other important players. There's no need to do that.

"The plan" is to stay competitive while rebuilding. Missing the playoffs would only give us a better draft pick to spend on good talent that helps us become more competitive more quickly. We're not going to force a tank just because of some fan-made idea that it's the only way to be successfull.

they aren't rebuilding. they keep trading more picks than they acquire. they sign 30+ year old guys, in some cases to multi-year deals and guys like abdelkader to 7 year contract. rebuilding teams don't do that.

 

[Frk It]

Wait... what do people think Holland is doing? I mean we've been in rebuild-mode for almost 5 years now.

I think when people say "rebuild", they mean "tank". Is that right? Becasue no, I don't think missing the playoffs would lead Holland to try and tank this team. That would require trading away Mrazek and Larkin and possible a few other important players. There's no need to do that.

"The plan" is to stay competitive while rebuilding. Missing the playoffs would only give us a better draft pick to spend on good talent that helps us become more competitive more quickly. We're not going to force a tank just because of some fan-made idea that it's the only way to be successfull.


How many times in the last 24 years have we been "demolished" in 5 games in the playoffs? A handful? I'll take a 15-20 pick and a chance in the playoffs over a 10-14 pick, no playoffs and maybe a 1% better chance at a good player in the draft.

2 times in the last 4 years.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Wait... what do people think Holland is doing? I mean we've been in rebuild-mode for almost 5 years now.

I think when people say "rebuild", they mean "tank". Is that right? Becasue no, I don't think missing the playoffs would lead Holland to try and tank this team. That would require trading away Mrazek and Larkin and possible a few other important players. There's no need to do that.

"The plan" is to stay competitive while rebuilding. Missing the playoffs would only give us a better draft pick to spend on good talent that helps us become more competitive more quickly. We're not going to force a tank just because of some fan-made idea that it's the only way to be successfull.

You can't rebuild and make the playoffs. Drafting one elite player every ten years isn't going to work.

 

[Frk It]

they aren't rebuilding. they keep trading more picks than they acquire. they sign 30+ year old guys, in some cases to multi-year deals and guys like abdelkader to 7 year contract. rebuilding teams don't do that.

Yup. We're firmly in no-man's land. "Rebuilding on the fly" is such an oxymoron.

 

[ap3x]

It most certainly is. Explain that to Holland. Guess he saw that ad way too often in the last years.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

2 times in the last 4 years.

2 in 4 does not a certainty make.

 

[Frk It]

2 in 4 does not a certainty make.

We've scored 2 goals or less in what... Half the games we've played this year? Our defense can't even get us out of our zone without soiling themselves.

Not a "certainty", no. But I'm not one of those "miracles happen" people who thought we could take down Boston without a healthy Dats and Z, either.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Picking in the 10-14 range, or 15-20 range after getting demolished in 5 games in the playoffs...

Which would you rather?

Always making the playoffs. Always. Because once in a while you don't get demolished in the first round... and the playoffs are lotto tickets. You get in and see what happens.

That's meaningless, though. The building sets the strategy. All the rest of this thread is just people who want to bash Holland having their 2,000th opportunity in a thread to do so.

The organization likes the playoff streak.
The organization wants to open a new building with a playoff team.

You guys can rail against Holland as the alleged brainchild of those positions, or just as the face of their implementation, or just as the fumbling buffoon who just steadfastly refuses to do what you want, or all three... but it is what it is.

They don't want what we want, they don't particularly care what we want, they get to make all the calls, and will do so forever.

If that wrecks your ability to enjoy watching/supporting the team, then it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

We've scored 2 goals or less in what... Half the games we've played this year? Our defense can't even get us out of our zone without soiling themselves.

Not a "certainty", no. But I'm not one of those "miracles happen" people who thought we could take down Boston without a healthy Dats and Z, either.

I think if where we pick doesn't change a great deal, I'd rather enjoy some potential playoff moments instead of miss out on the show entirely.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I question the fans who support KH while also saying outside larkin and mrazek we have nobody else of value to other teams that could be used to improve our own team(backend)

I mean how can anyone support KH if after 6 years of rebuilding on the fly all he has to show for it are larkin and mrazek, its an oxymoron

I simply do not support KH's reluctance to never ever ever think outside the box

the team is decent it really is, but it is way too one dimensional and very very easy to play against

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I think you can potentially build on the fly if you are more aggressive in your tactics. Holland has made some very questionable decisions at the deadline to try and keep the team afloat instead of making moves to help the team long-term, moves that I don't think really changed the Red Wings chances of making the playoffs and were at the end of the day kinda pointless.