Mini ATD CHAMPIONSHIP (1 player per franchise): New Orleans Brass vs. Quebec Bulldogs

[VanIslander]

20 players from 20 different teams in hockey history:

The "Mini-ATD" Championship Final Series:

coach Hap Day

"Get the puck out of our zone, then be creative"

Cy Denneny - Bobby Clarke (C) - Charlie Conacher
Sweeney Schriner - Sergei Fedorov - Andy Bathgate
Clark Gillies - Mike Modano - Jari Kurri
Jiri Holik - Anze Kopitar - Theoren Fleury

Scott Stevens (A) - Bobby Orr
Rod Langway (A) - Slava Fetisov
Moose Johnson - Pierre Pilote

Jacques Plante
Tom Barrasso​

PP1: Cy Denneny, Bobby Clarke, Charlie Conacher, Scott Stevens, Bobby Orr
PP2: Clark Gilles, Mike Modano, Andy Bathgate, Slava Fetisov, Pierre Pilote

PK1: Sergei Fedorov, Anze Kopitar, Rod Langway, Slava Fetisov
PK2: Bobby Clarke, Jari Kurri, Scott Stevens, Bobby Orr

Ice time: Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens, Slava Fetisov and Bobby Clarke ought to have the most ice time, in that order, given their roles on both special teams
(I tried to talk Orr into letting Moose have the 2nd PK time but Bobby made a helluva career insisting on being out there in all game situations).
Pilote and Johnson are excellent special teams substitutes in case of injury, penalty or suspension on the blueline.


vs.


Les Bulldogs De Québec

Coach: Toe Blake

Ted Lindsay (A) - Mark Messier (C) - Guy Lafleur
Johnny Bucyk - Sidney Crosby - Sergei Makarov
Frank Mahovlich - Eric Lindros - Bryan Hextall Sr
Craig Ramsay - Rod Brind'Amour - Dave Taylor


Denis Potvin (A) - Sprague Cleghorn
Duncan Keith - Chris Pronger
Harvey Pulford - Sergei Zubov

Martin Brodeur
Roberto Luongo

PP1: Makarov - Messier - Lafleur - Potvin - Cleghorn
PP2: Lindsay - Crosby - Mahovlich - Zubov - Pronger
PP3: Bucyk - Lindros - Hextall Sr

PK1: Brind'Amour - Ramsay - Pronger - Potvin
PK2: Messier - Lindsay - Cleghorn/Keith - Pulford/Keith
PK3: Crosby - Taylor

Estimated ice-time:

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Messier | 13.5 | 3 | 2 | 18.5
Lafleur | 13.5 | 5 | 0 | 18.5
Lindsay | 13.5 | 2 | 2 | 17.5
Crosby | 13.5 | 3 | 1 | 17.5
Makarov | 13.5 | 3| 0 | 16.5
Mahovlich| 13.5 | 2 | 0 | 15.5
Bucyk | 12.5 | 1| 0 | 13.5
Lindros | 12.5 | 1| 0 | 13.5
Hextall Sr| 12.5 | 1 | 0 | 13.5
Brind'Amour| 6.5 | 0 | 4| 10.5
Ramsay| 6.5 | 0 | 4 | 10.5
Taylor| 6.5 | 0 | 1| 7.5
TOTAL | 138 | 21 | 14 | 173

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Potvin | 19 | 5 | 3 | 27
Cleghorn | 19 | 3 | 2 | 24
Pronger | 17 | 2 | 3 | 22
Keith | 17 | 1 | 3 | 21
Pulford| 10.5 | 0 | 3 | 13.5
Zubov | 9.5 | 3 | 0 | 12.5
TOTAL | 92 | 14 | 14 | 120

​

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[jarek]

Hard to imagine a situation where New Orleans doesn't win.

 

[seventieslord]

Hard to imagine a situation where New Orleans doesn't win.

Why? At first glance, every single player in Quebec's top six is better than their New Orleans counterpart. That says nothing about the overall makeup of the teams but it's a large, immediately obvious advantage that will have to be overcome in other areas.

 

[seventieslord]

I'd call the third lines even. Quebec has better players (aside from at RW), but New Orleans has better bottom-six suited players as a whole.

I prefer Quebec's 4th line. New Orleans has it at RW though.

On defense, it's only a marginal New Orleans edge on the first pairing, a noticeable edge on the 2nd (keith is better than langway by now, but fetisov has a sizeable edge on pronger), and the 3rd (it's a bloodbath on the third pairings, yikes)

In net, New Orleans has the sure advantage with plante, but Brodeur is not going to lose any games by himself, either. Quebec helps make up for that with better coaching.

It's quite easy to imagine a scenario where New Orleans loses. If Quebec overpowers them with their superior top-end talent at forward they take this series. This is by no means to conclusively say they have the better team or should win, but reading your statement I expected to see a New Orleans team that was better in every imaginable way, but that's far from the case.

 

[jarek]

I'd call the third lines even. Quebec has better players (aside from at RW), but New Orleans has better bottom-six suited players as a whole.

I prefer Quebec's 4th line. New Orleans has it at RW though.

On defense, it's only a marginal New Orleans edge on the first pairing, a noticeable edge on the 2nd (keith is better than langway by now, but fetisov has a sizeable edge on pronger), and the 3rd (it's a bloodbath on the third pairings, yikes)

In net, New Orleans has the sure advantage with plante, but Brodeur is not going to lose any games by himself, either. Quebec helps make up for that with better coaching.

It's quite easy to imagine a scenario where New Orleans loses. If Quebec overpowers them with their superior top-end talent at forward they take this series. This is by no means to conclusively say they have the better team or should win, but reading your statement I expected to see a New Orleans team that was better in every imaginable way, but that's far from the case.

Here's where Quebec will sink and New Orleans will float on the clouds: the PK.

Good luck, Quebec. You've run into a better PK than even mine was.

 

[BenchBrawl]

My apologies for missing most of what happened in the last two weeks.

Hard to imagine a situation where New Orleans doesn't win.

You lack imagination.

Why? At first glance, every single player in Quebec's top six is better than their New Orleans counterpart. That says nothing about the overall makeup of the teams but it's a large, immediately obvious advantage that will have to be overcome in other areas.

It's the first thing that came to my mind too.

Messier > Clarke
Crosby > Fedorov
Lafleur > Conacher
Makarov > Bathgate
Lindsay > Denneny
Bucyk > Schriner

Extending this to the 3rd line, we get:

Lindros > Modano
Mahovlich > Gillies
Taylor < Kurri

That's one win for The Brass against eight for Quebec.That's a simplistic comparison but it still demonstrate that Quebec has am uch better forward group then The Brass.This is made worst by the fact Quebec's forward group aren't a bunch of weak soft unidimensional players in general.It's a heavy, physical Top 9.

I'd call the third lines even. Quebec has better players (aside from at RW), but New Orleans has better bottom-six suited players as a whole.

I guess that's fair if you prefer defense to physicality in a 3rd line.I went for physicality which is covered by Lindros and Hextall Sr.

Mahovlich, while not physical, brings size as a physical third wheel but an offensive cornerstone for the line.

On defense, it's only a marginal New Orleans edge on the first pairing, a noticeable edge on the 2nd (keith is better than langway by now, but fetisov has a sizeable edge on pronger), and the 3rd (it's a bloodbath on the third pairings, yikes)

The 3rd pairing edge is tremendous for the Brass, but it's limited by the time of ice this edge will exist.

In net, New Orleans has the sure advantage with plante, but Brodeur is not going to lose any games by himself, either. Quebec helps make up for that with better coaching.

Agreed.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This series is basically a Forward vs Defense battle.

Quebec dominates at forward while The Brass dominates at defense.

 

[jarek]

I don't find these rudimentary comparisons of player x > player y to be useful in any way, shape or form. I'm far more interested in the overall offense that the players bring (VsX7, Vs2, whatever metric you want to use), as well as the compositions of each line and how that's going to affect the series.

Quebec has great offense on the team, absolutely, however, Hap Day was a great defensive coach and the team he has to work with fits perfectly for him. I don't think it will be very easy to score on this team.

More than that, I find once again that Quebec is mismatched on special teams (and I'm starting to wonder if anyone actually cares). NOB's PK units as they are currently setup is somewhat puzzling, but I believe they have an edge at forward and a huge edge on D, for many of the same reasons as I had an advantage in our series. The major troubling factor for NOB is that Clarke is going to spend some time in the box himself and that will certainly present an issue.

And once again, I am really interested in seeing a VsX7 comparison between these two teams. I really doubt the different is that significant.

And lastly, once again, if my Cleghorn - Cameron pairing in the main draft had issues, how does Potvin - Cleghorn not have similar issues?

 

[seventieslord]

I don't find these rudimentary comparisons of player x > player y to be useful in any way, shape or form. I'm far more interested in the overall offense that the players bring (VsX7, Vs2, whatever metric you want to use), as well as the compositions of each line and how that's going to affect the series.

Quebec has great offense on the team, absolutely, however, Hap Day was a great defensive coach and the team he has to work with fits perfectly for him. I don't think it will be very easy to score on this team.

More than that, I find once again that Quebec is mismatched on special teams (and I'm starting to wonder if anyone actually cares). NOB's PK units as they are currently setup is somewhat puzzling, but I believe they have an edge at forward and a huge edge on D, for many of the same reasons as I had an advantage in our series. The major troubling factor for NOB is that Clarke is going to spend some time in the box himself and that will certainly present an issue.

And once again, I am really interested in seeing a VsX7 comparison between these two teams. I really doubt the different is that significant.

And lastly, once again, if my Cleghorn - Cameron pairing in the main draft had issues, how does Potvin - Cleghorn not have similar issues?

What was the issue and how could this possibly be the same thing?

 

[jarek]

What was the issue and how could this possibly be the same thing?

I'm surprised you missed it. There was probably 3 or 4 pages of talk about it dedicated to just that in the assassination thread.

Long story short, Cleghorn and Cameron both liked to rush the puck, so one of their offense would suffer at even strength, and if it was Cleghorn rushing, Cameron's alleged defensive ineptitude would cause serious issues defensively.

Potvin is better than Cameron defensively obviously, but wouldn't the other point apply here? Wouldn't one of them somehow suffer offensively at even strength? I never bought the argument but apparently everyone else did..

 

[tony d]

Voted.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Quebec wins in 7 Games

3 Stars
1) Bobby Orr
2) Dennis Potvin
3) Guy Lafleur

 

[ResilientBeast]

Congrats to the Quebec Bulldogs!

 

[BenchBrawl]

VanI's team was very strong, just as deserving of the championship than mine.

It was clear almost nobody's heart were in the playoffs debates, mine included.

The drafting part of the draft was awesome though, so I'm still glad I won despite the abysmal (playoffs) participation.

The format was very good.

 

[VanIslander]

Congrats BB.