Mindset of the fanbase

[hail2skins]

Just want to first say that I've been a lifetime East Coaster and have for a while been a fan of going to Las Vegas, and was excited when the city got awarded the hockey team. I've been following the team since, at least from the standpoint of being excited of seeing whether they've won or lost the previous night when I get up in the morning (don't really watch the games, because even if I could, staying up until close to 1 am East time would be quite the chore). Anyway......

I saw this post from "HanSolo" in the most recent GDT and thought it summed up the mindset of most folks (at least the takeaway I get when listening to folks like Ken Boelkhe from SinBin VEgas):

I hope this season gets them to pump the f***ing brakes on this all out to win managerial and coaching strategy. We still have to push to try to pull a cup run out of our very limited window with this core of players but no more tinkering. Get the roster under the cap, clean out the coaching staff and do proper diligence in hiring a new staff that can get results out of this core, reinvest in player development to salvage the shallow prospect pool we still have and position the team for the inevitable retool we're going to have to go through. After years of watching the Ducks make minor tweaks to their roster and slowly descend into lottery team territory, I was happy to support a team with the balls to go out there and make impact moves to try to win. But they've gone too far. We've depleted our prospect pipeline, we've spent beyond the cap in contracts. We've burned bridges with former players and completely and entirely de-emphasized player development all while being far too loyal to a coaching staff with a fundamentally broken system. We've reaped what we sowed big time.

I guess I wanted to review where we went from the beginning and had a few questions:

2017-18: obviously the magical first season that included the amazing playoff run that ended unfortunately with the loss to the Caps in 5 in the SCF. I don't remember much about the SCF series....obviously Tuch somewhat whiffing on the wide open net shot that would've sent Game 2 to OT was huge, but I also think that VGK got manhandled in the two games in Washington. Do you think some of the personnel moves made in the next offseason and during 2018-19 were all a reaction to what happened in that series? A lot of people think the team's current style isn't as exciting as it was that first season, but I'm wondering if that style change predated DeBoer.

2018-19: another good season, but one where VGK fell to 3rd place in the division with 93 points, which is probably the amount of points we are going to end up with this season (and unfortunately miss the playoffs this time). Yes, we did get screwed by the 5 minute major in game 7 in the SJS series, but it can't be overlooked that it got to a Game 7 after VGK had been up 3-1

2019-20: Gallant gets fired after 50 games where the team had 56 points. By comparison, the team had 72 points after 50 games in 2017-18 and 62 points after 50 games in 2018-19. Clearly this was a downward trend.

And then that's when it gets tough to make evaluations, because the 2020 season was cut short by covid and the shortened 2021 season was strictly played within the (altered) division. Both seasons the team won two playoff series before faltering in the third round.

I guess where I'm going with this is that are a lot of fans negative reactions to this disappointing season colored by that magical first year? I know it stings to see Gallant doing well his first season with the Rangers, but was there any guarantee that he was going to go any further than DeBoer did in the past two seasons? He didn't seem to be trending that way.

Anyway, curious to hear what people think.

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[EMcx2]

If before the first season you had told Golden Knights fans that in year 5 they would be fighting for a playoff spot despite having a massive amount of injuries to their best players; all of those fans would have been pretty happy with that. Of course, the problem now is that we got spoiled by unbelievable early success and I think some fans have totally lost perspective.

The Golden Knights have suffered through an extraordinary number of injuries to their best players yet some fans think they should still be winning the President’s trophy. Just look at Montreal to see how this season could have gone.

It’s obvious that some of the moves the organization has made have alienated some fans. They didn’t just fire Gallant; they replaced him with the guy from the hated Sharks. Then they dumped Fleury, the face of the organization, for a song. I think they were both good moves. Gallant was the perfect coach for the year 1 Golden Misfits… by midseason year 3 he had lost the team. Remember, that was the season when the Knight’s players were showing up about half way through the 2nd period. Also remember the reason the organization brought in Lehner was because Fleury was playing poorly. You know Fleury… the guy that showed his selfishness with a meme about being stabbed in the back by the Knights because he lost the #1 goalie spot. You know, Fleury… the guy who kicked the puck into his own net during the western conference finals against Montreal.

Oh that’s right; the Knights played in the western conference finals last year. You would never know it from the whining on this board. With the amount of whining on this board you would think the Knights were the Sabers and hadn’t made the playoffs in 10 years. And yet the Knights made it to the last two western conference finals coached by … Peter Deboer.

If, before the first season you had told Golden Knights fans that in year 5 they would have Mark Stone, Eichel, Pacioretty, Dadonov, Reilly Smith, Marchessault and Martinez on the roster and been to the playoffs 4 straight years…. They would be pretty happy with that…

 

[IceNeophyte]

Just want to first say that I've been a lifetime East Coaster and have for a while been a fan of going to Las Vegas, and was excited when the city got awarded the hockey team. I've been following the team since, at least from the standpoint of being excited of seeing whether they've won or lost the previous night when I get up in the morning (don't really watch the games, because even if I could, staying up until close to 1 am East time would be quite the chore). Anyway......

I saw this post from "HanSolo" in the most recent GDT and thought it summed up the mindset of most folks (at least the takeaway I get when listening to folks like Ken Boelkhe from SinBin VEgas):

I hope this season gets them to pump the f***ing brakes on this all out to win managerial and coaching strategy. We still have to push to try to pull a cup run out of our very limited window with this core of players but no more tinkering. Get the roster under the cap, clean out the coaching staff and do proper diligence in hiring a new staff that can get results out of this core, reinvest in player development to salvage the shallow prospect pool we still have and position the team for the inevitable retool we're going to have to go through. After years of watching the Ducks make minor tweaks to their roster and slowly descend into lottery team territory, I was happy to support a team with the balls to go out there and make impact moves to try to win. But they've gone too far. We've depleted our prospect pipeline, we've spent beyond the cap in contracts. We've burned bridges with former players and completely and entirely de-emphasized player development all while being far too loyal to a coaching staff with a fundamentally broken system. We've reaped what we sowed big time.

I guess I wanted to review where we went from the beginning and had a few questions:

2017-18: obviously the magical first season that included the amazing playoff run that ended unfortunately with the loss to the Caps in 5 in the SCF. I don't remember much about the SCF series....obviously Tuch somewhat whiffing on the wide open net shot that would've sent Game 2 to OT was huge, but I also think that VGK got manhandled in the two games in Washington. Do you think some of the personnel moves made in the next offseason and during 2018-19 were all a reaction to what happened in that series? A lot of people think the team's current style isn't as exciting as it was that first season, but I'm wondering if that style change predated DeBoer.

2018-19: another good season, but one where VGK fell to 3rd place in the division with 93 points, which is probably the amount of points we are going to end up with this season (and unfortunately miss the playoffs this time). Yes, we did get screwed by the 5 minute major in game 7 in the SJS series, but it can't be overlooked that it got to a Game 7 after VGK had been up 3-1

2019-20: Gallant gets fired after 50 games where the team had 56 points. By comparison, the team had 72 points after 50 games in 2017-18 and 62 points after 50 games in 2018-19. Clearly this was a downward trend.

And then that's when it gets tough to make evaluations, because the 2020 season was cut short by covid and the shortened 2021 season was strictly played within the (altered) division. Both seasons the team won two playoff series before faltering in the third round.

I guess where I'm going with this is that are a lot of fans negative reactions to this disappointing season colored by that magical first year? I know it stings to see Gallant doing well his first season with the Rangers, but was there any guarantee that he was going to go any further than DeBoer did in the past two seasons? He didn't seem to be trending that way.

Anyway, curious to hear what people think.

When gallant got fired, MAF had lost his father and it imo clearly took a toll on his play in net. I believed, and believe, that the team's record would have recovered with Turk on the bench.

The team traded for Lehner, and it worked out well that season, generally. My beef is with the way DeBoer alienated MAF in the playoffs. Nevertheless, MAF stuck with it to the point where he won the vezina the following year, and was rewarded by being traded off. Now I agree that he had to be traded off because cap and no one is going to take Lehner at 5 mil, so my beef with the GMs is with offering Lehner that contract to begin with.

More and more this year, I see play that gives me the idea that a system of positioning and accurate passing isnt being coached at all. Our PP is an embarassment and essentially has been since Spott took over.

We have traded prime prospect after prime prospect away for what we have today. I believe this team has succeeded in the past despite coaching, not because of it. I also agree that we need to develop prospects going forward and stop adding to our high salaried trophy collection. I don't think Lehner has what it takes to get us to the promised land, though some will argue. I am not completely sure about Thompson either, but his focus and mobility look better to my eye.

 

[IceNeophyte]

And stop calling criticism "whining". If you cant take your team being criticized, you are in the wrong place.

 

[mundyc3]

I think it is simple. They need more contributing players on ELCs. Imagine if Glass went in the Pacioretty trade and we had Suzuki? Next season it is going to be paramount to have guys like Brisson and Morozov to be a factor in the top 9.

Next year I expect a number of these players gone: Lehner (not because I want him gone, but I really think he requests a trade privately), Smith, Dadonov, Pacioretty, Karlsson, Martinez, Brossoit or Theodore. I point to the old men in Pacioretty, Dadonov, and Martinez as the most likely to go. Smith I think somehow stays but a lot needs to change. Brossoit is done. I just don't see how he stays on this team next year.

RFAs are really tricky. Hague, Roy, Kolesar, Howden all have a purpose but all could easily be replaced as well.

It will be a weird off-season. I am not sure if we want the same eyes on it. Whether it is looking through the lens of stylistically with a new coach or completely new eyes with a management change, I have no idea where to go.

I believe this team can be better next year with ELC help and shaving some fat.

 

[Vegas07]

If before the first season you had told Golden Knights fans that in year 5 they would be fighting for a playoff spot despite having a massive amount of injuries to their best players; all of those fans would have been pretty happy with that. Of course, the problem now is that we got spoiled by unbelievable early success and I think some fans have totally lost perspective.

The Golden Knights have suffered through an extraordinary number of injuries to their best players yet some fans think they should still be winning the President’s trophy. Just look at Montreal to see how this season could have gone.

Who are the fans saying the team should be winning the President’s Trophy? I’ve read a lot of comments from unhappy fans and never saw anybody say that.

Of course our expectations are going to change after year 1, not because we are spoiled, but because the roster turned out to be much better than anyone thought it was. Having a lot more success than expected will greatly raise the expectations of any team and it should. That’s not something that is only true with expansion teams.

 

[Vegas07]

The roster improved after Gallant left. I don’t totally disagree with his firing, but I do wonder how he would have done if he had Alec Martinez playing defense for him instead of Jon Merrill. Whitecloud wasn’t playing for him either. Eakin seemed to fall apart after game 7 at the Sharks. Stephenson didn’t join the team until December. Karlsson was playing injured when Gallant was fired. People complained about Subban constantly and we overplayed Fleury again because Gallant didn’t trust our other goalies.

PDB had much better rosters.

 

[Vegas07]

And stop calling criticism "whining". If you cant take your team being criticized, you are in the wrong place.

I don’t always like seeing negativity either but I expect it when the team loses. Of course fans are going to be pissed off with losing. Especially fans that spend money to see the team.

But I guess it makes people feel superior if they come on here, wag their finger and call people whiners. It must give them a nice ego boost.

 

[Vegas07]

It obviously wasn’t a smart move because it will piss off some of the wrong people, but I respect Fleury for wanting to play that badly in the playoffs.

The guy is a HOF goalie, a champion, a Vezina winner and he has some pride and confidence in his abilities. He is competitive and wants to go out there and fight with his team. Maybe our team today can use some of that passion.

 

[Vegas07]

You know, Fleury… the guy who kicked the puck into his own net during the western conference finals against Montreal.

 

[Vegas07]

I guess where I'm going with this is that are a lot of fans negative reactions to this disappointing season colored by that magical first year?

I would say the last couple of seasons and especially last season affected my expectations way more than the first year. The roster has changed too much since the first year to pay much attention to that.

If the team struggled the last couple of seasons I think the expectations for this season would be different and people wouldn’t be so surprised.

 

[hangman005]

When gallant got fired, MAF had lost his father and it imo clearly took a toll on his play in net. I believed, and believe, that the team's record would have recovered with Turk on the bench.

I'm not sure I believe that, but I was willing to give it more time, especially seeing as Deboer was his replacement I'd rather have given him more time.

As I said at the start of the year, I've never gone into a season with as little confidence as I did this season which was before injuries also ruined everything, and it's not just Lehner in net, most of it really has been Front Office not recognizing a fixing the problems behind the bench. Even with all the injuries, I think we could have done better than we have. I think the moves we make in the off season will decide my feelings on next season.

 

[azvgk]

I think it is simple. They need more contributing players on ELCs. Imagine if Glass went in the Pacioretty trade and we had Suzuki? Next season it is going to be paramount to have guys like Brisson and Morozov to be a factor in the top 9.

Next year I expect a number of these players gone: Lehner (not because I want him gone, but I really think he requests a trade privately), Smith, Dadonov, Pacioretty, Karlsson, Martinez, Brossoit or Theodore. I point to the old men in Pacioretty, Dadonov, and Martinez as the most likely to go. Smith I think somehow stays but a lot needs to change. Brossoit is done. I just don't see how he stays on this team next year.

RFAs are really tricky. Hague, Roy, Kolesar, Howden all have a purpose but all could easily be replaced as well.

It will be a weird off-season. I am not sure if we want the same eyes on it. Whether it is looking through the lens of stylistically with a new coach or completely new eyes with a management change, I have no idea where to go.

I believe this team can be better next year with ELC help and shaving some fat.

I agree with the last sentence, though I think getting rid of Smith, Dadanov and particularly Theodore would be a huge mistake. I also think we're going nowhere with Lehner, don't know if it's being out-of-shape or his mindset, but what I see this year is mediocre at best. I think we need to free up cap space by getting rid of Brossoit, and some of the Janmark's, Patrick's and the like, maybe even Martinez.

It does take some time to develop prospects on ELC's, but in a hard cap world you have to have a few.

 

[Vegan Knight]

I'm not sure I believe that, but I was willing to give it more time, especially seeing as Deboer was his replacement I'd rather have given him more time.

As I said at the start of the year, I've never gone into a season with as little confidence as I did this season which was before injuries also ruined everything, and it's not just Lehner in net, most of it really has been Front Office not recognizing a fixing the problems behind the bench. Even with all the injuries, I think we could have done better than we have. I think the moves we make in the off season will decide my feelings on next season.

I don't totally agree but I wouldn't be against both leaving now either.

Lehner for his own reasons because he's been treated like shit since he got here. I think if given the offseason to get healthy he could be good enough to win a Cup in net, just not here with all the baggage that goes with us.

DeBoer, I don't have as big a problem with his coaching apart from his loyalty to Spott and the abysmal powerplay. But the past few games his demeanor when it has seemed possible he could get the axe have left a sour taste to me.

If there's an option out there that makes sense a change of direction isn't the worst thing that could happen to the team. At any rate, I don't think both Lehner and DeBoer can be here next season, I think there's a rift.

There will probably be a needed change in philosophy though, to go towards our youth next season. Brisson, Morozov, Cormier should get considerable time next season to make the jump to NHL play. Leschyshyn and Rondbjerg don't look like they have it.

Thompson should get 45-ish starts if healthy. He does need at least a 1B level goalie (possibly could still be Lehner) to eat up a decent amount of starts though, whoever it is. Our fanbase is already hyping him up, ignoring struggling moments and overhyping admittedly good ones. He looks like he could turn into a good starter but we probably can't go into next season thinking he can suddenly handle over 50 games as the guy. He may get there by the end of next year but we can't assume that now.

 

[CupInSIX]

If before the first season you had told Golden Knights fans that in year 5 they would be fighting for a playoff spot despite having a massive amount of injuries to their best players; all of those fans would have been pretty happy with that. Of course, the problem now is that we got spoiled by unbelievable early success and I think some fans have totally lost perspective.

The Golden Knights have suffered through an extraordinary number of injuries to their best players yet some fans think they should still be winning the President’s trophy. Just look at Montreal to see how this season could have gone.

It’s obvious that some of the moves the organization has made have alienated some fans. They didn’t just fire Gallant; they replaced him with the guy from the hated Sharks. Then they dumped Fleury, the face of the organization, for a song. I think they were both good moves. Gallant was the perfect coach for the year 1 Golden Misfits… by midseason year 3 he had lost the team. Remember, that was the season when the Knight’s players were showing up about half way through the 2nd period. Also remember the reason the organization brought in Lehner was because Fleury was playing poorly. You know Fleury… the guy that showed his selfishness with a meme about being stabbed in the back by the Knights because he lost the #1 goalie spot. You know, Fleury… the guy who kicked the puck into his own net during the western conference finals against Montreal.

Oh that’s right; the Knights played in the western conference finals last year. You would never know it from the whining on this board. With the amount of whining on this board you would think the Knights were the Sabers and hadn’t made the playoffs in 10 years. And yet the Knights made it to the last two western conference finals coached by … Peter Deboer.

If, before the first season you had told Golden Knights fans that in year 5 they would have Mark Stone, Eichel, Pacioretty, Dadonov, Reilly Smith, Marchessault and Martinez on the roster and been to the playoffs 4 straight years…. They would be pretty happy with that…

Don't look now, but the whiners were right...Vegas is on the verge of missing the playoffs.

 

[Vegan Knight]

On a plus side, our RFAs being injured or having disappointing ends to the season means we can probably get them all signed for 6.7 or under. Or trade off some and go a different direction.

Dadonov has also been on fire, helping us with inevitably getting rid of him in the offseason. He may have played us out of giving a 2nd, with a 3rd being possible.

So at least our cap constraints should only affect our roster makeup and shouldn't become us giving away big assets for nothing, which seemed very possible since last offseason.

 

[willy702]

Talked to a few friends who buys various amounts of tickets still over last 5 days. Pretty much the mindset is well we knew it wouldn't always be crazy good. Plus they want some of that underdog magic again seen in year 1. Really agree on that, the team just got into weird state like they have been around a long time and went through some pain to get a contender, but wait they actually didn't. I think coming into the playoffs in future years as a lower seed might be a good thing, force the team to develop players and play a different style that works in the playoffs. Plus it would bring real joy to win series.

I used to follow the Sharks for many years and they were more fun to watch when they kind of sucked but would get in as an 8 seed. Never good enough to win the Cup but nothing was sweeter than knocking off a Cup favorite. They didn't have top of the league stars, but put together a hungry group of veterans who would raise their game in the postseason. Owen Nolan was about the most clutch player you ever saw in the postseason. Mike Ricci would look futile all season and then score game winners in the playoffs. Then the team got good and had star players and it kind of changed. Winning series was expected and you kind of felt relieved to see it instead of the joy that came before. And damn if it wasn't the same thing as these Knights, dominate opponents and get beat because shots on goal advantage doesn't mean you win. All those Thornton years were about skate around the opponent and get nice shots from 30 feet out that made the opposing goalie look brilliant. Wasn't until Pavelski and Couture took on major roles that the team was really getting playoff type wins.

Really will be interesting if major changes are made and the team is forced to do something similar. It's the NHL, you don't need to do a tear down rebuild unless you are cheap like the Coyotes or Sabres. Retool and get younger with the right kind of players in a different system that stresses more balance and playoff style players and this all could be a bump in the road.

 

[hail2skins]

Between #NotAMajor, MAF's flub last year late in Game 3 vs the Habs, and last night allowing the GTG at 19:59 in a game that would've allowed VGK to still control its own destiny heading into the Stars matchup, it really seems that someone sold their soul for that inaugural season run to the SCF.

 

[Vegas07]

Between #NotAMajor, MAF's flub last year late in Game 3 vs the Habs, and last night allowing the GTG at 19:59 in a game that would've allowed VGK to still control its own destiny heading into the Stars matchup, it really seems that someone sold their soul for that inaugural season run to the SCF.

As bad as that loss was, this is the least disappointing loss to me out of all the years the team existed. Losing in the playoffs hurts a lot more.

Has anybody here been excited about the possibility of making the playoffs? Is anyone feeling like we squandered a great opportunity? In other words, does anyone think this team is a serious threat to win the cup if the team can just get in?

 

[Vegas07]

Between #NotAMajor, MAF's flub last year late in Game 3 vs the Habs, and last night allowing the GTG at 19:59 in a game that would've allowed VGK to still control its own destiny heading into the Stars matchup, it really seems that someone sold their soul for that inaugural season run to the SCF.

I don’t think the mistake by Fleury changed the outcome of the series. Lehner came in and played great in game 4 and gave the team tons of momentum going into game 5. That might have been his best game as a Knight. And Montreal still owned us in games 5 and 6 (the defensive mistake by Holden in game 5 to put Montreal ahead was huge).

If we win game 3 we don’t even know if we win game 4. Remember Lehner played game 4 and had arguably his best game ever as a Knight. If we win game 3 does Lehner even play game 4? I doubt it.

Also Montreal was missing a key defensive player in game 1. After he returned our offense disappeared. We lost our next 2 home games. We couldn’t score on the power play. We couldn’t stop their breakaways.