Mike Modano, a Hall of Famer?

[overpass]

First of all Modano does get alot of credit for being a two way forward and deserves most of it. But Do not say that Hawerchuk was not good defensively. In Winnipeg he was the Jets biggest name player. When the Jets were playing the Oilers who was going against Gretzky the most? Hawerchuk was. The Winnipeg Jets never won a series without Hawerchuk. When Hawerchuk went to Buffalo he became a 2nd line center. Lafontain was the number 1 center. Hawerchuk's role in Buffalo was as a all round center. In St Louis he was a 3rd line center as well in Philadelphia and was an important part in the Flyers getting to the Finals in 1997. Hawerchuk even in juniors was good at faceoffs

Did anyone here watch the Jets a lot in the 80s? I'm curious what role Hawerchuk played. Was he taking the tough matchups? Or was that Thomas Steen's line or Laurie Boschman's line?

The reason I'm curious is because Hawerchuk was a minus player in Winnipeg. And his teams weren't that bad - other star players have been plus players on worse teams. Steen was basically even over the same years.

For Winnipeg from 1982-89 at even strength, Hawerchuk's GF/GA ratio was 0.96. Steen's was 1.00. With neither on the ice, it was 0.81. I'd like more context for those numbers if anyone can provide it.

You also know better though.

In the 80's, offensive players who were responsible defensively didn't get many Selke votes or awards for the most part. No one scoring like a Hawerchuk won the Selke until Gilmour.

Troy Murray.

 

[seventieslord]

You also know better though.

In the 80's, offensive players who were responsible defensively didn't get many Selke votes or awards for the most part. No one scoring like a Hawerchuk won the Selke until Gilmour.

no, none won it, but Modano didn't win it, either.

Some offensive stars who were top-6 in the 80s: John Tonelli, Bobby Clarke, Jari Kurri, Bryan Trottier, Rick Middleton.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Troy Murray.

Murray was a career defensive player who had one career year offensively and got the Selke for his efforts. He was still considered a "defense first" player. I absolutely agree that you can't compare Selke voting in the 80s with the 90s.

(I also think using Selke voting as more than a rough guide to a player's defensive ability is dubious in general, but luckily nobody is doing that here).

 

[BraveCanadian]

Orr was 19. Should that year be considered indicative of his best performance? I know he won the norris, but still. That was the 2nd-worst full season of his career.

That wasn't the point. The point was you were trying to insinuate that Orr was responsible for "making" Espo.

Those two seasons show this to be untrue.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Did anyone here watch the Jets a lot in the 80s? I'm curious what role Hawerchuk played. Was he taking the tough matchups? Or was that Thomas Steen's line or Laurie Boschman's line?

The reason I'm curious is because Hawerchuk was a minus player in Winnipeg. And his teams weren't that bad - other star players have been plus players on worse teams. Steen was basically even over the same years.

For Winnipeg from 1982-89 at even strength, Hawerchuk's GF/GA ratio was 0.96. Steen's was 1.00. With neither on the ice, it was 0.81. I'd like more context for those numbers if anyone can provide it.

Hawerchuk and the Winnipeg Jets could pretty much be used interchangeably. That was his role.

You're probably going to find that his gf/ga can be explained similarly to the reasons Gretzky underwhelmed by that metric in LA.

The difference being that Hawerchuk relied more on the powerplay than Gretzky.. so he was in minus territory too.

Steen was pretty decent two ways as well but was often a minus player too because... the Jets simply weren't a very good team.

 

[seventieslord]

That wasn't the point. The point was you were trying to insinuate that Orr was responsible for "making" Espo.

Those two seasons show this to be untrue.

Make a thread about it if you like. I would love to see some number crunching on the matter. Two things should be agreed on by all:

1) Esposito was a great player.

2) Orr made Esposito much greater.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Make a thread about it if you like. I would love to see some number crunching on the matter. Two things should be agreed on by all:

1) Esposito was a great player.

2) Orr made Esposito much greater.

I do agree with that. That was my point exactly.

You were the one who said:

Orr made him the highest-scoring center of all-time.

Which is not true on the basis of Espo's first couple seasons in Boston. He was starting to peak around that time on his own and he and Orr enhanced each other as they both improved individually.

Not to mention the league environment changed drastically post expansion.. 100 point scorers for the first time that year and 3 of them at once can attest to that.

As usual, a combination of factors.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I do agree with that. That was my point exactly.

You were the one who said:



Which is not true on the basis of Espo's first couple seasons in Boston. He was starting to peak around that time on his own and he and Orr enhanced each other as they both improved individually.

Not to mention the league environment changed drastically post expansion.. 100 point scorers for the first time that year and 3 of them at once can attest to that.

As usual, a combination of factors.

I think you are looking at the comment the wrong way. He's not saying Orr made Esposito a great player, he's saying he made him the highest scoring center of all time.

The guy behind him was Stan Mikita, who ended up scoring 123 fewer points than Esposito. Esposito and Orr played together for 9 seasons in which Orr played 570 games. Esposito did not miss many games, so for arguments sake let's just assume they played 570 games together...

In order for that statement to be true Orr would have had to only be responsible for one extra Esposito point every 4.63 games they played together. That is certainly a realistic possibility.

 

[JackSlater]

Modano and Hawerchuk top 10 finishes with European players excluded:

Hawerchuk: 2, 4, 6, 6, 9, 10

Modano: 5, 5, 6, 6, 6,

Pretty close, but with a slight edge to Hawerchuk. Factor in Gretzky/Lemieux and players who benefitted from playing with them and Hawerchuk's edge grows. Modano had the highest non-European ppg in 1997-98 but missed 30 games, so that likely would have been a high top ten finish. Hawerchuk just missed the non-European top 10 a few times.

 

[Blades of Glory]

Modano's 1999 playoff run is often overlooked, even though it is one of the greatest all-around performances by a forward in recent history. This is what I wrote about it a year ago in a comparison thread. If Modano had won the Smythe that year, as he should have, I doubt people would argue against his HOF candidacy.

I still can't believe Nieuwendyk won the Smythe in 1999. Don't get me wrong, he was a beast that year and came up with a ton of clutch goals for the Stars, but it was simply a case of voters looking at the GWG totals and deciding that since Nieuwendyk had more than everyone else, he must have been the most valuable player. He wasn't even the best center on the team that postseason. Mike Modano was playing 24 minutes per game, compared to Nieuwendyk's 16, and was doing it playing in every situation. Modano anchored their top PK unit, their top PP unit, their top forward line, everything. He broke his wrist in Game 3, missed one game (Nieuwendyk scored the GWG), and came back to set up every single Stars goal in Games 5 and 6. If that isn't a Conn Smythe-worthy performance, I don't know what is. Ed Belfour easily should have gotten it over Nieuwendyk too. I think he lost points because he played behind Ken Hitchcock's suffocating defensive system, but he went head-to-head with the guy who is widely considered the greatest goalie of all-time IN HIS PRIME, and went save for save with him. And beat him.
.

 

[Starchild74]

Thank you for the open-mindedness.



Hawerchuk was not a 3rd line center in St. Louis. He actually scored more points as a St. Louis center that year than anyone else, despite leaving at the deadline.



I agree. Many say he should have been penalized, but he wasn't, so good for him. that is one play though.



Modano was the one going up against the other team's best. Not Carbonneau. And we know for sure Lehtinen made an impact on Modano's goals against. But that should be obvious; he was the best defensive forward in the league; even better than Modano. Judging the best defensive forwards is subjective business and things like goals against rarely come into play. Modano was 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 6th in voting during his prime. (rightfully behind Lehtinen three of those times)

I get your point, there's no doubt Lehtinen had an impact, but other players didn't get votes just for being on Carbonneau's line, or Francis' line, or Rick Meagher's line. So give Modano the credit he deserves there.



Of course it's not easy.

But I don't see you making any actual points here.



that's subjective tripe. There's nothing to actually support that. The league got better, not worse, after 1990 when the league expanded and imported a lot of Europeans. There were fewer bad players to exploit and less opportunity to put up massive point totals. Face it! The only reason some value the 80s so much is because some players had gaudy point totals.



OK, I get it. Modano at 19-23 was not as good as Hawerchuk at 26-30. You win!



Yep, actually he was.

Here is the list of all-star voting placements each player received, in which they got at least three separate votes:

Hawerchuk: 2nd, 3rd, 6th
Modano: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th, 5th, 8th.



I never said there weren't any.



That's completely unsubstantiated.

I've shown in many different ways that the offensive results both players achieved were very similar. Hawerchuk has a small edge there, at best. Hawerchuk never received a single Selke vote. Modano was top-6 in voting four times. You mean to tell me they're closer defensively than offensively? Do you have a straight face right now?

It's not about being open mided or not. It is just that some players are not comparible. Hawerchuk and Modano aren't. One was an elite player and during his peak years was considered the best center not name Gretzky. Modano was never considered the second best center in the game. The only problem with Modano is that he never had an amazing year he was just consistent. He had the skill to do more just never did. Hawerchuk used his skill and became one of the greatest players in his day not just centers.

My point about Hawerchuk in the Canada Cup is that Hawerchuk did so much in his career that went unoticed. He played in Winnipeg and over shadowed in his division by Gretzky. No one ever poised the wuestion how did Hawerchuk do it with the team he was on. He made everyone better. Everytime other players in the league made a great play it was noticed. Now of course you could kind of say the same thing about Modano. I mean some didn't notice how good he was becasue he played in Dallas. It was just that with the lack of television in the 80's people didn't realize too much that Hawerchuk was decent defensively. When he went to Buffalo people were amazed that Hawerchuk was able to play defensively. He always could but in the 80's it was all about points, how Hawerchuk produced because if he didn't usually the Jets lost. If Hawerchuk made good defensively plays and didn't score it didn't matter. Whereas in the 90's and now with all the tv and more respect and understanding of defensive play it is more noticed and talked about and apreciated

Modano did go up against the oppositions best but not on every shift. Not every game. Just like I believe it was you that mentioned Modano's minutes in the playoffs. He wasn't playing all those minutes just becasue he was going up against the oppositions best it was actually a strategy that Hithcock had. Usually a team tries to get the checking line agianst the oppositions best line. What Hitchcock did was say ok if you want to play let's say the Draper line against Modano and that is your matchup. I will put Modano out there as much as possible. The more the Draper line is out there the less Yzerman or Federove is out there. Now I am just using this as an example of course. But that is what Hitchcok did. He new that eventually they opposition would have to put that number 1 line against Modano's. it worked to perfection against teams like Edmonton, St Louis, Buffalo etc.... Modano's line could take the checking and still score. That is a main reason why Modano's minutes went up. Also having guys like Carbonneau etc.. make a team better because they can teach a team quite a bit. Carbonneau's line did play against the oppositons best at times. Not always but to say that Modano always played against the best is pure B.S.

I never said Modano was or is not good defensively. I am just saying that at their best. Mike Modano was not the 2nd best defensive forward on the team. He was their best all round player though.

The point I am trying to make is that just because a player played in the 80's doesn't mean that getting points were easy. Either a player is good or not, however the greats are great no matter when they played.

See you like to use stats to try and show that Modano is almost as good as hawerchuk and then say that Hawerchuck's numbers are a reflective of inflation scoring in the 80's and that Modano's numbers were just as good relatively speaking. When Hawerchuk was 18 he was a premier player in the league. It wasn't until Modano was 22 when he became a good player and maybe even elite. When Hawerchuk was 22 he was getting more points then guys like Dionne or Statsny etc.. When Modano was 22 he was not on top or near the top of the league. Now of course I am not trying to compare directly Hawerchuk at 30 and Modano at 22. The point is even Modano was good he was not at the top. Only later when some of the centers like Yzerman etc.. were getting older did he start catching up to them.

I don't care about award votings or all star team voting. That is very subjective. When I say Modano was never a top 2 center I mean that almost every year he played guys like Yzerman, Sakic, Lindros, Forsberg were above him then some years it was guys like Gilmour, Federov, Roenick were better then him. At no time would he be considered the 2nd best center in the game. Hawerchuk was. it might have been a short time but from I would say 84-86 Hawerchuk was probably the 2nd best center in the game. Now of course I have not done a top 5 list for centers so this is subjective but Modano was just not elite enough

How is it not substantiated. I have seen both play. I am not saying that Hawerchuk is equal to Modano defensively. I am just saying that Hawerchuk showed he could play deensively and make defensive plays and win alot of faceoffs in his own end. If Modano was a 10 defensively Hawerchuk would probably be a 7 or an 8. However if Hawerchuk was a 10 offensively then Modano would be a 6.

No I do not value any era more then any other era. Nor do I take away from what a player does in any era. Has the NHL gotten better yes. Is it because of the full influsion of Europeans including Russian etc... yes but lets also be honest too. Canadian and American have gotten better too. Players are bigger and stronger then they ever were. However there are still bad players in the NHL today. There are still bad goalies. There are bad teams as well.

Hawerchuk had amazing totals in the 80's but in the early 90's despite recovering from some injuries he still put up some good numbers as a number 2 center so it is not like his number fell when he played in the 90's. Your arguments that Hawerchuk's numbers are more to do with the 80's is not true. Now your points might be true for some other players but just not Hawerchuk

Let me put it this way. Offensively Roenick is a better centerman then Modano. truthefully he quite a bit more of an offensive centerman then Modano as far as skill or when heatlhy. Now if Modano i sbehind Roenick how could he be even close to Hawerchuk.

If you want to compare Modano to a player that played in the 80's or part of his career in the 80's is Doug Gilmour

 

[Rhiessan71]

Modano was more of a north/south center who played more of a speed game and was more of a shooter than a playmaker.

Dale on the other hand was an east/west center who like Gretzky, was more about finesse and guile and was much more of a playmaker than Madano ever was.

 

[Big Phil]

It's not like saying take out Gretzky and Lemieux. That just bumps Hawerchuk up one spot in 1982, 1983, 1984, and 1985, and then up two in 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, and 90. The effect of Europeans on a ranking-based judgment of Modano is more profound than that. Just knock off 100% of Soviets and 60% of other europeans each season and see where he falls.

I think the talent pool from the 1990s to the 1980s was the same. Think about it. While there were some Euros in the NHL in the 1980s there were more Canadians. Then in the 1990s there were less Canadians and more Euros, maybe a few more top notch Americans too. So you get what I am saying right? Take a top notch Canadian out and add a European, its the same thing. The bottom line is that regardless of their place of birth there were top notch players around both Hawerchuk AND Modano. If anything the forward talent in the 1980s is second to none. There were a lot of HHOFers to wade through in Hawerchuk's time and he still came out smelling like roses.

Plus there were Euros in the 1980s too. Kurri, Stastny come to mind.

If you wrote that book, you'd come out and say it... right?

Sure would. Its a favourite of mine though among others. I don't think anyone would be afraid around here to admit to writing a book. But I certainly do agree with the sentiment. Hawerchuk can easily be in the discussion of most underrated player.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think the talent pool from the 1990s to the 1980s was the same. Think about it. While there were some Euros in the NHL in the 1980s there were more Canadians. Then in the 1990s there were less Canadians and more Euros, maybe a few more top notch Americans too. So you get what I am saying right? Take a top notch Canadian out and add a European, its the same thing. The bottom line is that regardless of their place of birth there were top notch players around both Hawerchuk AND Modano. If anything the forward talent in the 1980s is second to none. There were a lot of HHOFers to wade through in Hawerchuk's time and he still came out smelling like roses.

Plus there were Euros in the 1980s too. Kurri, Stastny come to mind.




Sure would. Its a favourite of mine though among others. I don't think anyone would be afraid around here to admit to writing a book. But I certainly do agree with the sentiment. Hawerchuk can easily be in the discussion of most underrated player.

You're basically saying that the number of talented Canadians went down in the 1990s when the Europeans came over. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Big Phil]

You're basically saying that the number of talented Canadians went down in the 1990s when the Europeans came over. That doesn't make sense to me.

In the later 1990s. This is why we had the Hockey Summit in Canada in 1999. We got lazy in how we coached and trained our players. We saw the fruits of this come out in the late 1990s not to mention some horrible international results. Thankfully we came around. It wasn't a HUGE issue, but for example the highest goal scoring Canadian in 1998 was Joe Nieuwendyk with 39. In 1999 it was Sakic with 41. No doubt there was a bad transition for us at one time. Then again, stars like Bure, Selanne, Jagr, Forsberg and even (choke) Yashin took the place.

But even then, in the 1980s there was Gretzky, Lemieux, Kurri, Stastny, Savard, Messier, Yzerman etc.....

This is why I don't care what part of the world they came from there was insane competition in the 1980s. Especially in the mid to later part of the decade. There was no expansion for a long time, the talent had caught up with the number of teams......And with Modano's era you can make good points too. Which is why it makes no sense to talk about Euros. The 1990s didn't have any more elite players than the 1980s.

 

[JackSlater]

I think the talent pool from the 1990s to the 1980s was the same. Think about it. While there were some Euros in the NHL in the 1980s there were more Canadians. Then in the 1990s there were less Canadians and more Euros, maybe a few more top notch Americans too. So you get what I am saying right? Take a top notch Canadian out and add a European, its the same thing.

It isn't the same thing though. You weren't taking top notch Canadians out and replacing them with top notch Europeans; you were taking middling Canadians out and replacing those players with top notch Europeans... which makes the talent level in the NHL increase. Unless you think the number of top notch Canadians suddenly dropped a great deal in the span of a small number of years of course.

 

[Starchild74]

There was a time in the NHL mind you it was a small time that there weren't too many great Canadian players coming into the NHL

Now of course not taking anything away from the European players or making it sound as though they were only great because the canadian players weren't but there were some years where the new Canadian talent was not as high as before. It seemed we were still producing the grinders and good players but the elite players were for the most part European

If you look at the drafting or players signed as free agents(never drafted)and the differences between the 80's and 90's there are way more amazing Canadians that were drafted in the 80's then in the 90's just like in the last 5 years there have been more highly skilled canadian players then there has been for a while maybe in all the 1990's

In the 80's just from the top of my head you have guys like Ray Bourque, Michel Goulet, Ray Bourque, Cam Neely, Adam Oates, Pierre Turgeon, Dale Hawerchuk, Dino Ciccarelli, Doug Gilmour, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier, Glen Anderson, Mario Lemieux, Ron Francis, Steve Yzerman, Denis Savard, Larry Murphy, Joe Nieuwendyk, Al MacInnis, Joe Sakic, Luc Robitaille , Brett Hull(is technically Canadian) and of course Wayne Gretzky who was never drafted but entered in 1979-80

Now some of those players played in the 90's of course but in the 1990's and early 2000's just from the top of my head guys that were drafted or signed as a free agent(not drafted) Eric Lindros, Joe Thornton, Paul kariya, Jason Arnott, Shane Doan, Ryan Smyth, Chris Pronger, Iginla, Bertuzzi, Rob Blake, Niedermayer, Jason Spezza, Danny heatley, Eric Staal,

Now I know i missed a few but in the 80's most of the guys I mentioned have been inducted into the HHOF and some might still be inducted. Of the guys I mentioned in the 90's early 2000's only a few will be inducted in the HHOF

When you look from the 2006 draft and on you have players like Crosby, Stamkos, Doughty who look like they are the real deal and maybe some of the best ever and then you have guys like Tavares, Seguin, Skinner, Hall, Eberle etc... who look like they have skill to be great

I just think that for a time for a small stretch there just wasn't that many skilled Canadians compared to Europeans. Like one poster talked about Canada had a summit to "fix" Canadian hockey. Their were concerns that Canadians were not skilled anymore and that to find those skilled players you needed to look to Europe

Now of course everything goes in cycles. I mean remember the great Americans that came into the league in the early 1990's. The players that were major reason for winning the world cup and playing Canada in the 2002 Olympics. Now there seams to be a rebound for some great American talent where it fell off for a bit. It happens to every country. It isn't taking away from Europeans but in the 1980's there were alot more skilled players overall then in the 90's because most of the best players in the 90's were from the 80's

 

[Big Phil]

It isn't the same thing though. You weren't taking top notch Canadians out and replacing them with top notch Europeans; you were taking middling Canadians out and replacing those players with top notch Europeans... which makes the talent level in the NHL increase. Unless you think the number of top notch Canadians suddenly dropped a great deal in the span of a small number of years of course.

It doesn't really matter. The talent pool of top notch players was certainly no worse in Hawerchuk's time. He had tough, tough competition. For starters he had the greatest player of all time who wasn't going to share anything. Not to mention top notch stars at least on the same level offensively as the 1990s stars. If you did a comparison I would think Hawerchuk would have had a harder time cracking the top 10 in his era, yet he did it more often

 

[finchster]

Modano's 1999 playoff run is often overlooked, even though it is one of the greatest all-around performances by a forward in recent history. This is what I wrote about it a year ago in a comparison thread. If Modano had won the Smythe that year, as he should have, I doubt people would argue against his HOF candidacy.

After reading your post about Modano, I won't disagree he had a very good run but wasn’t Guy Carbonneau the top penalty killing center on the Dallas Stars that run? I think Carbonneau and Keane were the top two penalty killers and Modano and Lehtinen being the second pair. Carbonneau did miss some games that playoff, so Modanno would have been the top penalty killing center but not during the whole playoffs. Not a big deal but Nieuwendyk was playing 18 minutes a game, not 16.

Modano lead Dallas in goals in the regular season with 34 but was 5th on his team in the playoffs with 5 and one of those goals was an empty net goal. Anytime your top goal scorer isn’t scoring goals it will look less impressive compared to the guy who upped his production from the regular season and tied a then record of most GWG in a playoff season with 6. I would argue Modano’s playoff run the year after was more impressive than the year they won the cup.

I think you are underselling Nieuwendyk and embellishing slightly with respect to Modano.

 

[Rhiessan71]

After reading your post about Modano, I won't disagree he had a very good run but wasn’t Guy Carbonneau the top penalty killing center on the Dallas Stars that run? I think Carbonneau and Keane were the top two penalty killers and Modano and Lehtinen being the second pair. Carbonneau did miss some games that playoff, so Modanno would have been the top penalty killing center but not during the whole playoffs. Not a big deal but Nieuwendyk was playing 18 minutes a game, not 16.

Modano lead Dallas in goals in the regular season with 34 but was 5th on his team in the playoffs with 5 and one of those goals was an empty net goal. Anytime your top goal scorer isn’t scoring goals it will look less impressive compared to the guy who upped his production from the regular season and tied a then record of most GWG in a playoff season with 6. I would argue Modano’s playoff run the year after was more impressive than the year they won the cup.

I think you are underselling Nieuwendyk and embellishing slightly with respect to Modano.

Agree completely, especially considering it was Joe that got the Conn for that run, not Modano.

People also forget how Nieuwendyk was also an incredible faceoff guy so I'm highly doubtful that Modano was taking the important draws over Joe or Carbo for that matter.

 

[OilCanada92]

Over 500 goals, commitment to a franchinse, a cup. Probably the best real- American player. I'd say he's in for sure. If they are contemplating Lindro's making it, Modano should be a sure thing.

 

[JackSlater]

It doesn't really matter. The talent pool of top notch players was certainly no worse in Hawerchuk's time. He had tough, tough competition. For starters he had the greatest player of all time who wasn't going to share anything. Not to mention top notch stars at least on the same level offensively as the 1990s stars. If you did a comparison I would think Hawerchuk would have had a harder time cracking the top 10 in his era, yet he did it more often

How can it not matter? Modano was competing against the same talent pool as Hawerchuk (if you make the simplifying assumption that Canada was producing the same amount of players) plus elite players from Europe and USA that Hawerchuk for the most part was not. I'm aware that Hawerchuk did compete against some Europeans and Americans, but I think it's obvious that the amount of elite American and European players was much greater in Modano's time. With the exception of Gretzky and Lemieux, two obvious outliers, Hawerchuk's competition was clearly a notch below Modano's. Factor in Gretzky/Lemieux and their teammates though and Hawerchuk's competition for top 10 spots is certainly harder than the smaller talent pool would indicate.

 

[Ogopogo*]

What do you think?

He has never been really dominant, a single 50-goal season, no 100-point season, no major individual awards. Never ranked better than 8th in scoring.

BUT

-Twelve 70 pts+ seasons
-Excellent playoff performer
-One cup
-Could play defense (unlike, say, Bure)
-Seven all-star games (Granted, it's pretty much meaningless these days)
-Over 1350 career points

Should he get in? Will he?

The bolded should be the critera for HOF enshrinement, sadly it is not. Just hanging around a long time and accumulating number is all it seems to take and Modano did that.

He should not get in but will.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

The bolded should be the critera for HOF enshrinement, sadly it is not. Just hanging around a long time and accumulating number is all it seems to take and Modano did that.

He should not get in but will.

Good heaven's, seriously? Modano was one of the most dominant centermen in the league for several years in his prime. As an fellow Oiler fan, surely you remember how many times this player ruined our evening.

 

[unknown33]

Of course.

What's next? Forsberg, a Hall of Famer?