Player Discussion Mike Matheson

[Miller Time]

Years played or not, the key is amount of games. They talk about 300 games for defensemen being the norm (on average, not every player is the same of course) where they are truly comfortable in the league and really find their footing. All of that is great news as all of our defensemen still have a ways to go before they reach their true potential.

So obvious and easy to understand... Yet too difficult for some apparently.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Brayden Point has finished top 10 in Selke votes 3 times in his career? Have you ever watched a single hockey game in your life? I'm sorry but you deserve to be ridiculed for this. Brayden point is a multiple time 40+ goals scorer and one of the best playoff performer in league history.

I've watched thousands of games, and in recent years the Selke voting is off the beaten path. Doug Jarvis, Bob Gainey and Guy Carbonneau could probably never win it today.

In February 2019, on the very day Claude Julien made the decision to demote Jesperi Kotkaniemi to 4th liner / spare forward, some TSN pundits suggested on-air the rookie get some SELKE consideration.

I no longer pay attention to Selke voting.

Re Brayden Point, I know he had some great playoffs in the past, but I find he is getting sloppy the last two seasons. At 28 years old and with his small frame, I would not want his contract of $9.5M for the next 6 years. TB may want to trade him and yes they will get a lot more than Matheson for him.

Anyway, next year maybe Matheson's numbers revert towards the mean, and he gets 50ish points with a +5. He will be a lot less polarizing then.

 

[Habnot]

Interesting that the Matheson haters hang on the +/- stat as their evidence that he sucks - possibly the most flawed metric that exists.

Is he an elite D? No - but he's a legit first pairing defenseman. Before throwing him on the scrap heap, let's have one of the young D's actually step up and take away some minutes (earned not given).

 

[Mrb1p]

Interesting that the Matheson haters hang on the +/- stat as their evidence that he sucks - possibly the most flawed metric that exists.

Is he an elite D? No - but he's a legit first pairing defenseman. Before throwing him on the scrap heap, let's have one of the young D's actually step up and take away some minutes (earned not given).

+/- isnt a good metric but it's pretty telling when the swing is that big. What's more telling is his 5v5 gf% and sf% metrics. Hint: they're the worst on the team.

Guhle is a better D than him and he's a left D, so it's a moot point whether there's someone that's steps up, he already did.

 

[Habnot]

+/- isnt a good metric but it's pretty telling when the swing is that big. What's more telling is his 5v5 gf% and sf% metrics. Hint: they're the worst on the team.

Guhle is a better D than him and he's a left D, so it's a moot point whether there's someone that's steps up, he already did.

It is or it isn't - you don't get to parse. Also all the stats are skewed by the amount of minutes he plays.

And exactly what has Guhle shown that would lead you to believe that he can get anywhere close to the production Matheson brings to the team?

And this does not include how valuable Matheson is in the dressing room. I wouldn't be surprised if Matheson is signed to a new contract.

You want to make sure you turn into the Ottawa Senators? Get rid of all your veterans.

But don't take my word...

Chronique de Billy Bertrand : Mike Matheson, un joueur responsable | RDS

Mike Matheson continue son excellente saison, Josh Anderson met fin à une longue disette, et le Canadien fait des heures supplémentaires.

www.rds.ca

 

[Mrb1p]

It is or it isn't - you don't get to parse. Also all the stats are skewed by the amount of minutes he plays.

And exactly what has Guhle shown that would lead you to believe that he can get anywhere close to the production Matheson brings to the team?

And this does not include how valuable Matheson is in the dressing room. I wouldn't be surprised if Matheson is signed to a new contract.

You want to make sure you turn into the Ottawa Senators? Get rid of all your veterans.

He's outproduced Matheson at 5v5. I mean, that's pretty telling lol.

The Sens have been holding on to Matheson types though. Guys who've never won and sacrifice even strength play for production. He's a literal clone of Chychrun.

And no it isn't skewed by minutes played, it's all ice time rates. The only thing skewed is well... his hockey DB page, which is the only thing that looks good about Matheson, and the only reason why you're making this post.

 

[Nicko999]

No the Habs wouldn't be bottom 3 without him. He contributed very little to the score sheet at 5v5.

His on-ice shot attempt is lower than every Habs D.
His fenwick is lower than every D except Savard.
His goal % is the lowest on the team.
He has the worst raw differential
He has the worst raw shot differential
His goals created on rebounds is a team worse.

He's basically last or bottom two in every single offensive (and of course defensive) stats at 5v5.

I don't care about advanced stats. A goal is goal (which ultimately results in pts).

Habs have 4 forwards with 30 pts this year.

Columbus has 6, Anaheim has 5, Seattle has 6 (potentially 7 by the end of the season)
Even Chicago has 5.
Tied with Washington at 4.
Only SJ is worst with 3.

Among the worst 6 offenses, only MTL stands out with great production from a D-man (Washington with Carlsson as well to a lesser extent).

The situation is shown perfectly by San Jose. 7th worst offense last year on the back of Erik Karlsson's 101 pts. You take him out, and they become the 2nd worst offense (and that is because of Chicago's hilariously bad offense this year).
And no, I am not comparing Matheson to Karlsson last year. Not even in the same stratosphere. But the impact of a #1D production is one of the most underrated things in here.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He's outproduced Matheson at 5v5. I mean, that's pretty telling lol.

The Sens have been holding on to Matheson types though. Guys who've never won and sacrifice even strength play for production. He's a literal clone of Chychrun.

And no it isn't skewed by minutes played, it's all ice time rates. The only thing skewed is well... his hockey DB page, which is the only thing that looks good about Matheson, and the only reason why you're making this post.

At all EV, Matheson has 32 points and Guhle 22. Did you mean by minute played?

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't care about advanced stats. A goal is goal (which ultimately results in pts).

Habs have 4 forwards with 30 pts this year.

Columbus has 6, Anaheim has 5, Seattle has 6 (potentially 7 by the end of the season)
Even Chicago has 5.
Tied with Washington at 4.
Only SJ is worst with 3.

Among the worst 6 offenses, only MTL stands out with great production from a D-man (Washington with Carlsson as well to a lesser extent).

The situation is shown perfectly by San Jose. 7th worst offense last year on the back of Erik Karlsson's 101 pts. You take him out, and they become the 2nd worst offense (and that is because of Chicago's hilariously bad offense this year).
And no, I am not comparing Matheson to Karlsson last year. Not even in the same stratosphere. But the impact of a #1D production is one of the most underrated things in here.

A goal is a goal, that's why having a 44% GF is bad, lol. It's not very hard to understand. That means he's been on the ice for 56% more goals than he's scored at 5v5. It's telling when he's the worst on the team.

Your whole argument is dismantled when last year he was playing much better defensively (Still f***ing bad.) and we finished with a better GF, with our best D being Petry and Wideman we finished with a better 5v5 GF (21st in the league, vs 26 and 27 the years he's been here.) This year the Habs have an actual very good GA at 5v5, were 13th in the league, he was on the ice for 60 goals, while getting the best on-ice goaltending at .922. Those are ridiculous numbers.

With him, at 5v5 were a 153 GF 160 GA team.
Without him, at 5v5 were a 106 GF -100 GA team.

Lets say Savard, since he had a similar deployment, were at 72 gf and 65 GA when he's on the ice. massive difference at 5v5, of course Savy played 30 odd less games than Matheson so it's hard to see in context but watch the difference, you can just assume that over a similar rate, we'd be close to a 150-160 difference with Savard on the ice.

At all EV, Matheson has 32 points and Guhle 22. Did you mean by minute played?

even strength is not 5v5. Even strength counts in 3v3, 4v4, 5v5 and even 6v6 if it ever happens.
We all know Matheson is amazing at 3v3 and 4v4, I have no issues with him there. He's at 21 points, tied with Savard and Guhle has 19, they've both played a lot less minutes and games than him.

 

[Nicko999]

With him, at 5v5 were a 153 GF 160 GA team.
Without him, at 5v5 were a 106 GF -100 GA team.

So 44% more likely to score with him on the ice. That is significant.

We all know his defensive mistakes, not arguing that. I am looking things from an offensive point of view. He is also having the toughest marchups with Ghule so that affects thar GA numbers. When he is off the ice, it's more likely that the opponent 1st line is not on.

 

[Mrb1p]

So 44% more likely to score with him on the ice. That is significant.

We all know his defensive mistakes, not arguing that. I am looking things from an offensive point of view. He is also having the toughest marchups with Ghule so that affects thar GA numbers. When he is off the ice, it's more likely that the opponent 1st line is not on.

Thats... not how it works lmao.