NCAA: Michigan spying scandal / Harbaugh accepts remaining suspension

[GKJ]

I agree the tattoo stuff was ridiculous and the punishment didn't warrant the crime, especially with what was going on at the time in the SEC.

But why would that make Ryan Day be so active in pushing these accusations and severe punishment? He was not at OSU when it happened, and I don't think there is a single person involved in the UM football program who was employed then, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't believe UM was ever involved in ratting out OSU when that happened.

Mandel said it best in his article today on The Athletic, the B10 risks now being turned into what the SEC was 15-20 years ago when everyone was on probation because everyone kept reporting other schools and accusing other schools of cheating. MAD worked out perfectly in the Cold War, and it worked out well in the B10 for awhile, but now that the bombs have been deployed there is no turning back. I hate that UM has to go down this path and air peoples dirty laundry. Maybe I am biased, but IMO the B10 has given them no choice with the actions being taken in response to this and the lack of action taken with other things, either lay the hammer down on everyone or slap everyone on the wrist.

And just the smug "our **** don't stink" attitude from other members of the conference. Quotes like "we are worried about the safety of the players" when the news broke, we now find out Illinois and OSU (the likely culprits) are sharing Michigan's signs with Purdue before the B10 championship game, yeah they really care about the safety of the players.

This could have been resolved with a simple phone call demanding that Stallions be fired and UM being given some kind of minor penalty, and upon being told by UM that "others are doing it to us" a statement released from B10 headquarters warning teams to cease any activity that involves stealing and/or sharing other teams signs and any future actions will result in more serious penalties. This has been totally inept leadership from Petitti, one that could have serious ramifications with the conference's reputation as well as the TV payouts from Fox.

Just absolutely comical that this is going to end up in the courts.

I’m not sure who really did rat them out, but while Day wasn’t there, it’s still the school, and people higher up than him made privy to this likely still care.

I know you’d know better than anyone else here, but I find Michigan leaving the conference a bit far-fetched unless it goes to what I think the real end-game with realignment is which is leaving the NCAA.

 

[Herby]

I’m not sure who really did rat them out, but while Day wasn’t there, it’s still the school, and people higher up than him made privy to this likely still care.

I know you’d know better than anyone else here, but I find Michigan leaving the conference a bit far-fetched unless it goes to what I think the real end-game with realignment is which is leaving the NCAA.

The administration is legit furious, and like I said, I wouldn’t expect it to happen, but it’s certainly something that is at least being discussed. Many in the Michigan AD would be perfectly happy if they never had to face MSU again, which would be an added bonus to leaving, many think the atmosphere at those games has become toxic and dangerous to all involved. As far as this, I don’t know if the B10 offices just thought UM would roll over and die, and maybe they would have under Schissel, but not under Ono, not with what they know about other programs.

With what they know other programs have done and are doing, including ex-OSU coordinator Schiano who fed OSU and Purdue signals his sign guy had stolen (and there is more to come, this is just an initial shot) they feel like it’s ridiculous they are being penalized while nothing is done about the other things. Do you realize how snake-like it is for Day and Schiano to be pushing for strict penalties under the guise of "player safety" in the virtual B10 coaches mneetings, only for it to come out less than a week later that they themselves not only had UM's signs, but shared them with other programs? Player safety my ass. Schiano's halftime interview where he accuses (fairly I might add) UM of stealing signs and that is the reason for the results, when he himself had stolen UM's signs, just amazingly dishonest and pathetic, but again not really surprising considering it's Greg Schiano after all, he's as dirty and slimy as it comes, always has been.

It’s just a complete embarrassment all around, for Harbaugh, for Schiano, for Day and especially now for the entire conference who is going to take a massive PR hit for something that could have and should have been easily handled internally with slaps on the wrist for all involved and moving on. To get to this point where multiple teams, including the two premier programs in the conference are confirmed to be stealing eachs others signals, one by having a staff member running an elaborate scheme and the other by colluding with other members of the conference. It's just an awful look, I wonder what is being discussed in meetings at Fox Sports, this is going to be very damaging for the B10's reputation.

 

[Ben Grimm]

Michigan claims Ohio State, Rutgers, Purdue shared its signs, according to report | FOX Sports

The most recent twists around the Michigan sign-stealing investigation involve efforts by the program to paint itself as a target of sign stealing.

www.foxsports.com

Sources: U-M says Big Ten teams shared its signs

Michigan has documents it believes show Rutgers, Ohio State and Purdue engaged in communication about the Wolverines' signals in 2022 and has forwarded the documents to the Big Ten, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[GKJ]

The administration is legit furious, and like I said, I wouldn’t expect it to happen, but it’s certainly something that is at least being discussed. Many in the Michigan AD would be perfectly happy if they never had to face MSU again, which would be an added bonus to leaving, many think the atmosphere at those games has become toxic and dangerous to all involved. As far as this, I don’t know if the B10 offices just thought UM would roll over and die, and maybe they would have under Schissel, but not under Ono, not with what they know about other programs.

With what they know other programs have done and are doing, including ex-OSU coordinator Schiano who fed OSU and Purdue signals his sign guy had stolen (and there is more to come, this is just an initial shot) they feel like it’s ridiculous they are being penalized while nothing is done about the other things. Do you realize how snake-like it is for Day and Schiano to be pushing for strict penalties under the guise of "player safety" in the virtual B10 coaches mneetings, only for it to come out less than a week later that they themselves not only had UM's signs, but shared them with other programs? Player safety my ass. Schiano's halftime interview where he accuses (fairly I might add) UM of stealing signs and that is the reason for the results, when he himself had stolen UM's signs, just amazingly dishonest and pathetic, but again not really surprising considering it's Greg Schiano after all, he's as dirty and slimy as it comes, always has been.

It’s just a complete embarrassment all around, for Harbaugh, for Schiano, for Day and especially now for the entire conference who is going to take a massive PR hit for something that could have and should have been easily handled internally with slaps on the wrist for all involved and moving on. To get to this point where multiple teams, including the two premier programs in the conference are confirmed to be stealing eachs others signals, one by having a staff member running an elaborate scheme and the other by colluding with other members of the conference. It's just an awful look, I wonder what is being discussed in meetings at Fox Sports, this is going to be very damaging for the B10's reputation.

I hadn’t considered the Schiano angle much, so that’s a great point to point out. I actually wonder more what the schools coming in think of this.

Whatever is going to happen, it seems to reason that Michigan already believes the punishment will be severe, or at least more than they should expect. I don’t know that I would’ve anticipated something like a postseason ban originally.

 

[LT]

I hadn’t considered the Schiano angle much, so that’s a great point to point out. I actually wonder more what the schools coming in think of this.

Whatever is going to happen, it seems to reason that Michigan already believes the punishment will be severe, or at least more than they should expect. I don’t know that I would’ve anticipated something like a postseason ban originally.

I have the sense that right now Michigan is just trying to muck this up until after the season is over to avoid any punishment affecting this year.

But I also think if they're able to do that successfully, then all bets are off from both sides.

Without a sharp deadline, these "investigations" are gonna slow to a crawl.

 

[stats1]

I agree the tattoo stuff was ridiculous and the punishment didn't warrant the crime, especially with what was going on at the time in the SEC.

But why would that make Ryan Day be so active in pushing these accusations and severe punishment? He was not at OSU when it happened, and I don't think there is a single person involved in the UM football program who was employed then, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't believe UM was ever involved in ratting out OSU when that happened.

Mandel said it best in his article today on The Athletic, the B10 risks now being turned into what the SEC was 15-20 years ago when everyone was on probation because everyone kept reporting other schools and accusing other schools of cheating. MAD worked out perfectly in the Cold War, and it worked out well in the B10 for awhile, but now that the bombs have been deployed there is no turning back. I hate that UM has to go down this path and air peoples dirty laundry. Maybe I am biased, but IMO the B10 has given them no choice with the actions being taken in response to this and the lack of action taken with other things, either lay the hammer down on everyone or slap everyone on the wrist.

And just the smug "our **** don't stink" attitude from other members of the conference. Quotes like "we are worried about the safety of the players" when the news broke, we now find out Rutgers and OSU (the likely culprits) are sharing Michigan's signs with Purdue before the B10 championship game, yeah they really care about the safety of the players.

This could have been resolved with a simple phone call demanding that Stallions be fired and UM being given some kind of minor penalty, and upon being told by UM that "others are doing it to us" a statement released from B10 headquarters warning teams to cease any activity that involves stealing and/or sharing other teams signs and any future actions will result in more serious penalties. This has been totally inept leadership from Petitti, one that could have serious ramifications with the conference's reputation as well as the TV payouts from Fox.

Just absolutely comical that this is going to end up in the courts.

By the way that’s the same rules Michigan is accused of breaking. Purdue got advanced 3rd party in person game signals from both OSU and Rutgers. Look at the redacted document both Purdue and TCU had those signals. They did the same thing Michigan did just in a different manner. Whole thing is a circus. I hope Michigan fights this

 

[Unholy Diver]

By the way that’s the same rules Michigan is accused of breaking. Purdue got advanced 3rd party in person game signals from both OSU and Rutgers. Look at the redacted document both Purdue and TCU had those signals. They did the same thing Michigan did just in a different manner. Whole thing is a circus. I hope Michigan fights this

A lot of people commit crimes, usually the only ones who get punished are the ones who get caught doing it

 

[Herby]

I'm fine with Michigan taking a penalty for this, but others should as well. Either that or it should all be handled by the NCAA.

If the B10 wants to suspend Harbaugh under their "lack of sportsmanship" clause, that is fine. But how do you allow guys like Ryan Day and Greg Schiano to keep coaching after they whined in the B10 coaches meetings about concerns over "player safety" as they were pushing for harsh penalties when they themselves were doing the same thing? (and yes, Day and Schiano were the 2 pushing hardest for strict penalties). Is colluding together to steal other teams signs not a violation of the B10 sportsmanship as well?

The thing now being pushed by a certain group is "Our sign stealing was legal", ok Coach Day, what about the player safety you were arguing vehemently about a mere couple of days ago? Does player safety not matter anymore since your colluding with your former colleagues might technically be "legal" in the eyes of the NCAA? Please, explain how if one guy doing it is a "player safety" issue but you guys doing it isn't a "player safety"

Suspend Harbaugh, Day and Schiano for 2 games under the B10 sportsmanship policy and be done with it, leaving the NCAA to deal with the rest. All three schools will file injunctions and none of them will miss any games this season anyway.

 

[stats1]

I don’t see much coming from this, Harbaugh will get suspended and fined, the school will be fined. I don’t see any post season games in jeopardy, I don’t see them vacating wins etc. I think a lot of people who have been yelling from the rooftops like OSU fans will be disappointed.

 

[John Price]

The more I look into this (bias aside) the more I see it's just a witch hunt. Never in the history of the NCAA / Investigative process has an investigation been so rushed. It took the NCAA 6 years to determine Kansas wasn't colluding with Adidas to cheat, and tone down some level 1 violations. Yet they can somehow manage to find Jim Harbaugh "guilty" of violations, or rush to judgement about his involvement, something that has been posted before as next to none. Seems very shady.

I would also be livid if the Big Ten suspended him immediately this week. Let due process play out. This thing is way too rushed.

 

[izlez]

The more I look into this (bias aside) the more I see it's just a witch hunt.

What the hell do you mean by this? All of the evidence against Michigan was fabricated? The videos of the Michigan staffer unauthorized on opposing sidelines are deepfakes?

 

[John Price]

What the hell do you mean by this? All of the evidence against Michigan was fabricated? The videos of the Michigan staffer unauthorized on opposing sidelines are deepfakes?

also you missed the link where the investigation couldn't find a link to Harbaugh.

 

[izlez]

also you missed the link where the investigation couldn't find a link to Harbaugh.

Maybe you're just focused on Harbaugh and that's what all your comments are focused on?

I don't particularly care about Harbaugh. The football team cheated. There is evidence of that. It's not a "witch hunt". You can ban the football team from the Big 10 championship and college football playoff etc. whether Harbaugh was involved or not

 

[John Price]

Maybe you're just focused on Harbaugh and that's what all your comments are focused on?

I don't particularly care about Harbaugh. The football team cheated. There is evidence of that. It's not a "witch hunt". You can ban the football team from the Big 10 championship and college football playoff etc. whether Harbaugh was involved or not

Suppose that's why Rutgers, Ohio State and Purdue had Michigan's signals.

The more you look at this the more you can see it's not only a Michigan thing. Yes, Harbaugh has been embroiled in controversy. I've said this before. This is likely his last year at Michigan. He will leave for the NFL.

But let's get something straight here. Connor Stallions was a lone actor. The investigation from what we know of it has absolved Harbaugh of any culpability. And even if you don't buy that, why in the world would you want an investigation to "end" after about 1 month with incomplete facts, and make a judgement based on that?

"Oh Connor was cheating."

Even if he was (the use of signals is still VERY unproven and the amount of competitive advantage Michigan had through it is almost none) there is no indication that Harbaugh was involved at all or directed him to do this. Suspending him for that would be pretty steep and impetuous, no?

Michigan has every right to challenge any potential suspension and they have a very strong case for it too.

What could happen if Michigan and Jim Harbaugh take their Big Ten battle to court?

If the Big Ten suspends Jim Harbaugh on Thursday for Michigan's alleged sign stealing, expect a legal fight from the Wolverines. Here's how that could play out.

www.espn.com

Michigan to B1G like

 

[John Price]

imagine willingly wanting to hurt your brand and own conference's chances of winning a national title under the guise of "justice".

 

[izlez]

Suppose that's why Rutgers, Ohio State and Purdue had Michigan's signals.

The more you look at this the more you can see it's not only a Michigan thing. Yes, Harbaugh has been embroiled in controversy. I've said this before. This is likely his last year at Michigan. He will leave for the NFL.

But let's get something straight here. Connor Stallions was a lone actor. The investigation from what we know of it has absolved Harbaugh of any culpability. And even if you don't buy that, why in the world would you want an investigation to "end" after about 1 month with incomplete facts, and make a judgement based on that?

"Oh Connor was cheating."

Even if he was (the use of signals is still VERY unproven and the amount of competitive advantage Michigan had through it is almost none) there is no indication that Harbaugh was involved at all or directed him to do this. Suspending him for that would be pretty steep and impetuous, no?

Michigan has every right to challenge any potential suspension and they have a very strong case for it too.

What could happen if Michigan and Jim Harbaugh take their Big Ten battle to court?

If the Big Ten suspends Jim Harbaugh on Thursday for Michigan's alleged sign stealing, expect a legal fight from the Wolverines. Here's how that could play out.

www.espn.com

Michigan to B1G like

View attachment 765540

You keep going back to Harbaugh. I don't care about Harbaugh. The team should be punished for cheating.

I'm very curious how you determined knowing the opponents plays results in "almost no competitive advantage"?

 

[Herby]

You keep going back to Harbaugh. I don't care about Harbaugh. The team should be punished for cheating.

I'm very curious how you determined knowing the opponents plays results in "almost no competitive advantage"?

Ok fine, if it does provide a competitive advantage and it's "cheating" will Day and Schiano face consequences for "cheating" in giving Purdue a competitive advantage?

Or are we going to keep playing this non-sense card from Columbus that "Our sign stealing and collusion was legal"

If stealing signs gives a huge competitive advantage and risks player safety (as Ryan Day and Gene Smith both argued in the virtual meetings) shouldn't all sign stealing be treated equally?

Can you explain how "legally" stealing signs and sharing them with your former colleagues somehow doesn't give a competitive advantage or risk player safety, but illegally doing it does? If a rb gets blown up because the defense knows the play is he less likely to get injured from "legally" obtaining the play vs "illegally?

If Petitti wants to suspend one coach over a "sportsmanship" clause, how do you not suspend three other coaches (or 2 I guess, Brohm is gone) who literally colluded with each other against another member? How does one violate sportsmanship and the other doesn't?

 

[LT]

You keep going back to Harbaugh. I don't care about Harbaugh. The team should be punished for cheating.

I'm very curious how you determined knowing the opponents plays results in "almost no competitive advantage"?

What'd the players have to do with any of this?

 

[izlez]

Ok fine, if it does provide a competitive advantage and it's "cheating" will Day and Schiano face consequences for "cheating" in giving Purdue a competitive advantage?

Or are we going to keep playing this non-sense card from Columbus that "Our sign stealing and collusion was legal"

If stealing signs gives a huge competitive advantage and risks player safety (as Ryan Day and Gene Smith both argued in the virtual meetings) shouldn't all sign stealing be treated equally?

Can you explain how "legally" stealing signs and sharing them with your former colleagues somehow doesn't give a competitive advantage or risk player safety, but illegally doing it does? If a rb gets blown up because the defense knows the play is he less likely to get injured from "legally" obtaining the play vs "illegally?

If Petitti wants to suspend one coach over a "sportsmanship" clause, how do you not suspend three other coaches (or 2 I guess, Brohm is gone) who literally colluded with each other against another member? How does one violate sportsmanship and the other doesn't?

I don’t know where you got the impression I was defending what any of the other teams are accused of doing.

 

[izlez]

What'd the players have to do with any of this?

They gained a competitive advantage through rules that were broken.

 

[End of Line]

I know I started the thread but I’m staying out of this since this has become god dammed ridiculous

The only winners in this is FOX since this will end up the most watched Ohio State/TTUN game in history.

 

[LT]

They gained a competitive advantage through rules that were broken.

Including anything that affects the players directly is going to quickly turn into a 9 figure lawsuit. Neither side wants that.

 

[Hasbro]

Suppose that's why Rutgers, Ohio State and Purdue had Michigan's signals.

The more you look at this the more you can see it's not only a Michigan thing. Yes, Harbaugh has been embroiled in controversy. I've said this before. This is likely his last year at Michigan. He will leave for the NFL.

But let's get something straight here. Connor Stallions was a lone actor. The investigation from what we know of it has absolved Harbaugh of any culpability. And even if you don't buy that, why in the world would you want an investigation to "end" after about 1 month with incomplete facts, and make a judgement based on that?

"Oh Connor was cheating."

Even if he was (the use of signals is still VERY unproven and the amount of competitive advantage Michigan had through it is almost none) there is no indication that Harbaugh was involved at all or directed him to do this. Suspending him for that would be pretty steep and impetuous, no?

Michigan has every right to challenge any potential suspension and they have a very strong case for it too.

What could happen if Michigan and Jim Harbaugh take their Big Ten battle to court?

If the Big Ten suspends Jim Harbaugh on Thursday for Michigan's alleged sign stealing, expect a legal fight from the Wolverines. Here's how that could play out.

www.espn.com

Michigan to B1G like

View attachment 765540

Release the Robot Richard Simmons.

Change of pace having an NCAA scandal about ON field cheating.

 

[izlez]

Including anything that affects the players directly is going to quickly turn into a 9 figure lawsuit. Neither side wants that.

I mean I doubt it happens, but I don't know how a sports team can cheat and only have 1 or 2 people pay a price. The entire premise is playing within a set of defined rules. If you play outside the rules, nothing else really matters. and you shouldn't benefit from that.

And that's before getting into the actual monetary benefits that come from winning games and what other programs lose out on if we're talking lawsuits.

 

[John Price]

We have never seen the "snail" NCAA "rush to judgement" ever before this case. Again, 6 years to discipline Kansas with what amounts to a slap on the wrist for several Level 1 violations. Now this.

Seems very suspicious.