Messier and Team Leadership

[Oilerz]

I'm not sure what exactly Mr. Messier does for this team, but you would think he would be able to identify for the management a leader and then maybe help this guy become a leader. Even if we have to go outside our organisation to get that leader. We are talking about one of the greatest leaders in sports history here. If he can't help here, I don't know what he can do for us unless he is being groomed for coach or we are stockpiling GM's. Ference has not exactly wore his heart on his sleeve other than the scrap last night.

Mods: feel free to merge.

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[MinnesotaFats]

I'm not sure what exactly Mr. Messier does for this team, but you would think he would be able to identify for the management a leader and then maybe help this guy become a leader. Even if we have to go outside our organisation to get that leader. We are talking about one of the greatest leaders in sports history here. If he can't help here, I don't know what he can do for us unless he is being groomed for coach or we are stockpiling GM's. Ference has not exactly wore his heart on his sleeve other than the scrap last night.

Mods: feel free to merge.

Pretty obvious, no? He's bring groomed to be President/GM/Coach when everyone else is inevitably **** canned

 

[Perfect_Drug]

North American's have a terrible concept of what leadership is.

A leader isn't about a dude standing on a podium giving a riveting speech. Usually that's a talking head. A leader knows everyone on his team, has empathy for them, genuinely cares about them, and guides them all towards the same goal.

When people think of leadership, they think of Martin Luthor Kings "I have a dream" speech.

But in reality, MLK was at colleges, listening to the people, strategizing the frontlines against politicians, manipulating the media, and being someone who KNOWS the plight everyone is facing on a deep and personal level.



I'm wary of 'Messier' brand of leadership. He was a perennial loser for the 2nd half of his career.

 

[frag2]

North American's have a terrible concept of what leadership is.

A leader isn't about a dude standing on a podium giving a riveting speech. Usually that's a talking head. A leader knows everyone on his team, has empathy for them, genuinely cares about them, and guides them all towards the same goal.

When people think of leadership, they think of Martin Luthor Kings "I have a dream" speech.

But in reality, MLK was at colleges, listening to the people, strategizing the frontlines against politicians, manipulating the media, and being someone who KNOWS the plight everyone is facing on a deep and personal level.



I'm wary of 'Messier' brand of leadership. He was a perennial loser for the 2nd half of his career.

Yea. He was more about himself and projecting himself than a true leader

 

[Meanashell11]

I think Messier should spend a lot more time with the core of this team as leadership coach/mentor. That is the perfect role for him. Someone Hall/RNH/Yak/Ebs/Shultz/Nurse can talk to confidentially when it's not the right time to speak with the coach and whose peers cannot help yet as they do not have the experience.

 

[Meanashell11]

North American's have a terrible concept of what leadership is.

A leader isn't about a dude standing on a podium giving a riveting speech. Usually that's a talking head. A leader knows everyone on his team, has empathy for them, genuinely cares about them, and guides them all towards the same goal.

When people think of leadership, they think of Martin Luthor Kings "I have a dream" speech.

But in reality, MLK was at colleges, listening to the people, strategizing the frontlines against politicians, manipulating the media, and being someone who KNOWS the plight everyone is facing on a deep and personal level.



I'm wary of 'Messier' brand of leadership. He was a perennial loser for the 2nd half of his career.

What a complete bunch of bollocks.....

 

[Sethis]

North American's have a terrible concept of what leadership is.

A leader isn't about a dude standing on a podium giving a riveting speech. Usually that's a talking head. A leader knows everyone on his team, has empathy for them, genuinely cares about them, and guides them all towards the same goal.

When people think of leadership, they think of Martin Luthor Kings "I have a dream" speech.

But in reality, MLK was at colleges, listening to the people, strategizing the frontlines against politicians, manipulating the media, and being someone who KNOWS the plight everyone is facing on a deep and personal level.



I'm wary of 'Messier' brand of leadership. He was a perennial loser for the 2nd half of his career.

Wait, what? At least look these things up before you post.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3688

His first 17 years were spent on contending Oilers and Rangers teams, excepting the first few years with Edmonton and maybe the last year with New York. He won 6 cups, and was the essential piece and captain for the last two of those.

From Vancouver on, sure, the wheels fell off--but he was 37 at that time. That 7 year swan song does not constitute the second half of his career, and it's pretty well understood that his insane level of fitness kept him from retiring 2 or 3 years earlier as he probably should have.

 

[Oilerz]

North American's have a terrible concept of what leadership is.

A leader isn't about a dude standing on a podium giving a riveting speech. Usually that's a talking head. A leader knows everyone on his team, has empathy for them, genuinely cares about them, and guides them all towards the same goal.

When people think of leadership, they think of Martin Luthor Kings "I have a dream" speech.

But in reality, MLK was at colleges, listening to the people, strategizing the frontlines against politicians, manipulating the media, and being someone who KNOWS the plight everyone is facing on a deep and personal level.



I'm wary of 'Messier' brand of leadership. He was a perennial loser for the 2nd half of his career.

Please enlighten me on the rest of the worlds idea of leadership? I personally think North Americans pretty much know good leadership when they see it.

 

[Meanashell11]

Wait, what? At least look these things up before you post.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3688

His first 17 years were spent on contending Oilers and Rangers teams, excepting the first few years with Edmonton and maybe the last year with New York. He won 6 cups, and was the essential piece and captain for the last two of those.

From Vancouver on, sure, the wheels fell off--but he was 37 at that time. That 7 year swan song does not constitute the second half of his career, and it's pretty well understood that his insane level of fitness kept him from retiring 2 or 3 years earlier as he probably should have.

Not to mention that since retiring he has spent countless years coaching youth hockey here in Connecticut and New York. He and his father coach the New York Junior Rangers every year at the Quebec Pee Wee tournament. He coaches at my local skating club, other ex NHLers there have included Dave Maloney, Pat Lafontaine, Mike Richter for example. He has mentored many local kids and is regarded in the community here (not just the hockey community) as a leader. The NHL Leadership Award is named after him. But yeah he knows nothing about leadership.

His role with the Oilers should be as mentor to the core. Just hang around them, act as a sounding board and teach them how to be professionals.

Here is a bit more information about Doug Messier, if you read further about this you will notice one of the kids on the team that won has the last name Esposito! One guess who that is!


http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704132204576285302010176750

 

[Oilerz]

Not to mention that since retiring he has spent countless years coaching youth hockey here in Connecticut and New York. He and his brothers coach the New York Junior Rangers every year at the Quebec Pee Wee tournament. He coaches at my local skating club, other ex NHLers there have included Dave Maloney, Pat Lafontaine, Mike Richter for example. He has mentored many local kids and is regarded in the community here (not just the hockey community) as a leader. The NHL Leadership Award is named after him. But yeah he knows nothing about leadership.

His role with the Oilers should be as mentor to the core. Just hand around them, act as a sounding board and teach them how to be professionals.

Thanks for this, didn't know about most of it.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm not sure what exactly Mr. Messier does for this team, but you would think he would be able to identify for the management a leader and then maybe help this guy become a leader. Even if we have to go outside our organisation to get that leader. We are talking about one of the greatest leaders in sports history here. If he can't help here, I don't know what he can do for us unless he is being groomed for coach or we are stockpiling GM's. Ference has not exactly wore his heart on his sleeve other than the scrap last night.

Mods: feel free to merge.

You expect him to be able to identify a leader and make him a leader in a couple months?

 

[yukoner88]

You expect him to be able to identify a leader and make him a leader in a couple months?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about a long term approach

 

[joestevens29]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about a long term approach

And how do we know this is or isn't happening?

 

[yukoner88]

And how do we know this is or isn't happening?

we dont, this looks to be purely a suggestion for the team by the OP. It would be a good role for Messier to take on.

 

[Tanevian*]

North American's have a terrible concept of what leadership is.

But we do know about pluralization.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Oh jesus.

Can we cut out this Vancouver based nonsensical smearing of Messier's career?

Its stupid enough when it appears on the main board. Its downright embarassing when Oiler 'fans' do it.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Messier was a GREAT captain at the time he was winning. It was mixture of standing up for how he felt the team should play, and then lead by example.

'Guaranteeing victory' was icing on the cake, and he deflected ALL of the fan and media pressure onto himself and away from his team. He had massive balls, and his team followed that.

What we saw from Vancouver and onward, was Mike Keenan's go-to yes-man, (despite him being an outright lunatic), taking sides during inter-team conflicts which completely split the dressing room dynamic, and back in New York, he chastised Theo Fleury to the media (knowing full well about his substance abuse problems, and how personal dealing with that can be).

Those are not qualities of a good leader.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Please enlighten me on the rest of the worlds idea of leadership? I personally think North Americans pretty much know good leadership when they see it.

Richie Incognito was generally thought of as a very acclaimed leader prior to being outed as a bully.

Incognito has all the traits NA sports teams seem to look for in leaders. Presence in the locker room, very dominant alpha-male personality, and emotionally charged.



Do you think Lidstrom, Alfredsson, Sundin, or Chara lead like that?

 

[Oilerz]

Richie Incognito was generally thought of as a very acclaimed leader prior to being outed as a bully.

Incognito has all the traits NA sports teams seem to look for in leaders. Presence in the locker room, very dominant alpha-male personality, and emotionally charged.



Do you think Lidstrom, Alfredsson, Sundin, or Chara lead like that?

What does Ritchie Incognito have to do with Messier or the Oilers? I am only trying to question what he (Messier) is actually doing for THIS team.

 

[The Nuge]

Richie Incognito was generally thought of as a very acclaimed leader prior to being outed as a bully.

Incognito has all the traits NA sports teams seem to look for in leaders. Presence in the locker room, very dominant alpha-male personality, and emotionally charged.



Do you think Lidstrom, Alfredsson, Sundin, or Chara lead like that?

I don't follow the NFL so I had no clue who he was... After a 2 seconds google, I've got to ask, how the **** did anyone think that guy was a leader?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

What does Ritchie Incognito have to do with Messier or the Oilers? I am only trying to question what he (Messier) is actually doing for THIS team.

You said North Americans have a good grasp of what Leadership looks like.

I pointed out that Ritchie Incognito fits the bill of what North American leadership looks like.

 

[The Nuge]

You said North Americans have a good grasp of what Leadership looks like.

I pointed out that Ritchie Incognito fits the bill of what North American leadership looks like.

You're saying "North American" leadership is a guy who has to go to anger management courses throughout his career?

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

What we saw from Vancouver and onward, was Mike Keenan's go-to yes-man, (despite him being an outright lunatic), taking sides during inter-team conflicts which completely split the dressing room dynamic,

. . . next tell us about how he demanded Linden give him the captaincy.

I'm sorry but this Vancouver nonsense is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. All of it is completely fan-based (specifically, from a fanbase not exactly known for rational thought) and not one shred of evidence of it exists. What does exist are the following facts: That a nearly 40 year-old Messier won the team MVP award while with the Canucks, that the Canucks record with Messier in the lineup was significantly better than with him out, and that several young players (including Naslund and Jovanovski) who credited him with being a positive influence on their careers.

Secondly, Keenan, at the time of his hiring, was a few years removed from a Cup win in New York and was still considered a top coach; his resume from the mid-80s up until his stint with the Blues is matched by few in hockey. So, sorry, explain to me again how it was bad leadership to support a coach who had been hired to clean out a 'country club' atmosphere that was acknowledged by most in the organization as having a negative impact on the team's on-ice performance?

I'm curious to hear your response. Although, honestly, I'm not expecting much considering you have used this thread to bash Messier's leadership while holding up Alfredsson and Sundin as great leaders

 

[SeriousBusiness]

You said North Americans have a good grasp of what Leadership looks like.

I pointed out that Ritchie Incognito fits the bill of what North American leadership looks like.

Not really though.

 

[McOilbleeder]

You said North Americans have a good grasp of what Leadership looks like.

I pointed out that Ritchie Incognito fits the bill of what North American leadership looks like.

What made you decide on him?

If your going the NFL route, why not choose Drew Brees. Or Peyton Manning. Or Larry Fitzgerald.

I don't think Incognito is what North American leadership looks like at all.