ToewsGretzky*
Registered User
Canada's the best man, lol is this news? be proud, be smug, be cocky, we've earned it.
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Mens International Ice Hockey results- best on best
- Thread starter RED ARMY EAST
- Start date
Of course it's your definition. The IIHF has been a European House League since its founding. Remember Bunny Ahearne? I'm sure you do. The IIHF was explicitly created as a means of combating the Canadian predominance in the sport and Ahearne, whose corruption was rampant, was the very man who swindled Canadian amateurs out of an Olympic gold in 1936 and out of an Olympic bronze in 1964. No organization that featured Ahearne and Sabetzki for decades, or a dentist from Switzerland today, has any more credibility than the National Hockey League. This is the same governing federation that stood idly by for years and years while the soviets sent elite professionals up against college kids. Naturally, modofan, anything with the IIHF imprimatur is okay in your eyes because it's "your" federation. Conversely, anything that levels the playing field by removing the conspicuous double standards the soviets (and a few other European countries) thrived under, is "bad" because that helps Canada (and, by extension, the United States). C'mon, man. If you're going to be biased, show more subtlety than that.
Here's the shorthand for Canadian posters: it's only a legit best-on-best competition if Canada doesn't win. Which means only 5 of the last 13 best on best competitions since 1976 have been "legit"
What do you have against Fasel and Sabetzki? Wasn't Sabetzki the IIHF President that negotiated with Hockey Canada to get Canadian participation back in the Olympics in 1980? Or did you forget that? And how are you going to sit there and talk about Bunny Ahearne and corruption when guys like Alan Eagleson held the positions they did for decades. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Where on earth did you get the idea that the IIHF was created as a means of "combating Canadian predominance in the sport"? The IIHF was created in 1908, in France and included amongst its founding nations Belgium, Great Britain, Switzerland and Bohemia. This was 12 years before Ice Hockey even entered the international arena (as an exhibition sport), so how this is a relevant argument I'll never know. I still do not understand the frequency with which Canadian hockey fans like yourself bristle at any comment about international hockey that doesn't end in a rendition of "O Canada". The IIHF was created, just like every other international sports federation to serve as a body that would govern, develop and organize the sport in question "worldwide". Not just in Canada. Don't be so sensitive. It makes it so much easier for everyone else on the planet to dislike you.
By the way, assuming modofan is a Swede, his federation would actually be the Svenska Ishockey Forbundet (Swedish Ice Hockey Federation). The IIHF stands for International Ice Hockey Federation and believe it or not, Canada is a member. Therefore the IIHF is as much yours as it is mine (Swedish/American) or modofan's or anyone else who is a member of the IIHF.
And after all the BS that's been tossed around on this I decided to look at the results of "best on best tournaments" since the 1996 World Cup of Hockey. Anything more than twenty years past isn't an accurate reflection of the current climate that we are discussing.
Here is what I found for the current "Elite Eight" of International Ice Hockey from a performance standpoint. In the seven "best on best" tournaments since 1996 (no I don't include the 2005 Worlds even though the quality was very high) these are the records of the above mentioned countries.
1. Canada - 34W 10L 1T GF(156) GA(87) = .767 Win% (3 Olympic Golds, 1 World Cup Win, 1 World Cup Runner Up)
2. Sweden - 24W 9L 1T GF(119) GA(72) = .721 Win % (1 Olympic Gold, 1 Olympic Silver)
3. Finland - 26W 13L 1T GF(137) GA(85) = .663 Win % (1 Olympic Silver, 3 Olympic Bronze, 1 World Cup Runner Up)
4. United States - 23W 15L 2T GF(143) GA(91) = .600 Win % (2 Olympic Silvers, 1 World Cup Win)
5. Russia - 22W 15L 1T GF(130) GA(95) = .592 Win % (1 Olympic Silver, 1 Olympic Bronze)
6. Switzerland - 8W 8L 3T GF(37) GA(47) = .500 Win % (No Medals or Finals)
7. Czech Republic - 17W 18L 1T GF(103) GA (92) = .486 Win % (1 Olympic Gold, 1 Olympic Bronze)
8. Slovakia - 11W 19L 2T GF(85) GA(108) = .375 Win % (No Medals or Finals)
In a surprise to no one, Canada has been the best nation in "best on best" ice hockey tournaments over the last 18 years. 4 wins out of 7 tournaments is certainly impressive and Canada has shown especially in the last two Olympics that on it's day it is the toughest country in the world to beat.
Sweden has shown a remarkable ability to consistently perform well at these tournaments, albeit with less hardware than they'd like to show for it. Always strong in preliminary rounds, the Quarterfinals have been unkind to Tre Kronor (see 2002, 2004 and 2010).
Finland can never be counted out in a major tournament and has a bit of an opposing trend to Sweden. Not always great in preliminary rounds, the Finns seem to play their best in knockout stages. Unfortunately this hasn't yielded a World Cup Win or Olympic Gold...yet.
United States hockey has been frustratingly up and down over the past two decades. From inspiring, world class caliber editions in 96, 02, and 10 to misfiring and at times disjointed ones (98 and 06), they nonetheless are a danger at every major tournament.
Russia purports to be a world power in ice hockey and in potential they certainly are one, but since 2002 they have not medalled in any tournament and there is a growing angst amongst the Russian hockey faithful because of this. Sochi 2014 was a calamity, not in a sporting sense (because Finland is not a country to be embarrassed to lose to), but because this was the team and the Olympics where the Russian Bear was supposed to rise up and regain glory. As with the four listed above, they cannot be underestimated and can ice a 23-25 man roster that have a level of skill on par with anyone in the world.
Switzerland is higher up on this list due to their non-participation in the World Cup Editions of 96 and 04 (Germany was invited instead) and because a good number of their wins happened during the 98 and 02 editions of the Olympics, where preliminary rounds against weaker nations were included before regular group play. However, this does nothing to diminish the fact that they have been the single most improved nation in ice hockey over the past 20 years and are on the brink of becoming consistent late round and even medal contenders. Multiple wins over the Czechs and one over Canada serving as a reminder of their class. The ultimate sleeper team in international hockey.
Czech Republic is still a world hockey power, but have seen their stature diminished since the 06 Olympics due to a poor run of development (~06 to present). Normally a feared nation by all, they have seemed pedestrian against the other "big" nations in the last two Olympics. Always a medal threat, the Czechs need a new generation of players to fill the shoes of the Golden Hasek and Jagr years.
Slovakia is hanging on for dear life in the best on best hockey world. Even more so than their former countrymen above, Slovakia has been a victim of a poor junior development system and bad management of the domestic game for almost a decade. Slovaks still love and revere ice hockey, but without results that makes you Latvia (no offense). A scare against Canada in the Olympic Semifinals in Vancouver is the highlight of a rather bland set of performances recently.
In conclusion, Canada is currently the best ice hockey country in the world, and at the highest level, has performed the best over the past two decades. No one with a rational understanding of international hockey disputes this.
However, on no day can Canada waltz in to a game against any of the other seven nations mentioned and breeze through to victory. By the way, Canada's "dominance" of .767 Win % is no greater than Brazil's .801 Win % in major soccer/football tournaments through the same period of time and nowhere do you see Brazil trumpeted as the one and only power in world soccer/football.
Before you decide to make another naive diatribe against "everyone else", check that high horse your sitting on and make sure it has the legs to support you. Goodnight
Very interesting statistics/speculations for "modern era" best-on-best tournaments.
For pure interest, I also made a "ranking" of these last seven big tournaments. The system is following: gold/wc champ counts for 4 points, silver/wc runner-up counts for 2 points and bronze/wc third place counts for 1 point. When tied, the country with more golds/wc champs is higher. Golds/champs marked.
Canada 18 ****
Usa 8 *
Sweden 7 *
Finland 7
Czech 6 *
Russia 3
As we can see, Canada is pretty overwhelming, then comes four countries pretty even and then Russia, who has been a bit underachiever given that they have so great player prodction. This "big six" is quite superior in international hockey no matter what people say about Slovakia and Switzerland. They have, however, had their moments, Switzerland in Turin preliminary round and Slovakia in Vacouver (played a great game against Canada in semif and almost won bronze).
A notable issue seems to be the rink size. Usa has got all their 8 points from tournaments held in North America, while European countries (except Finland) has got almost every point in large ice. Finland is only European country with more than 1 point in small surface. So rink size is a big thing althought Canada seems to be best in both rink sizes.
