Matthews vs Pastrnak

[Stamkos4life]

Talent
Pasta > Matthew's

Taking contracts into account:
Pasta >> matthews

 

[WJCJ]

Right now, so far this season it’s Pastrnak. In the future most of us probably expect Mathews to pull ahead a little but he is not ahead today.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Starting a franchise it’s Matthews but as for who is currently the better player? Pastrnak for sure.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I feel like we've been talking about "Matthews potential" and "Matthews ceiling" since he was drafted and he still has nothing to show for it

If you follow these threads, Matthews isn't even a top 30 player on here apparently.

 

[ijuka]

The "hot take" answer is Pasta.

The reality is... I don't know. Mathews had the higher ceiling coming out of the draft so in theory he should be better player, but he hasn't hit it yet. Don't think Pasta has hit his ceiling yet either though.

No, scouts thought that he had the higher ceiling. We don't actually know either player's ceiling, they're just educated guesses.

 

[Jot]

I'm taking Matthews here.

Pastrnak is amazing on his own. They both will end off this year will have similar finishes. 45+ goals and 95+ Points.

Being part of hottest line in the nhl, wouldn't surprise me if he hits 110 points. Which would force me to change vote.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I want to explore the Matthews ceiling thing. Because when I watch him play, I'm really not seeing much room for growth. I think him playing in Toronto genuinely makes it impossible to even look at the overrated/underrated thing accurately, but I think as a pretty objective view I see him as a guy that came into the NHL as an extremely polished player. He had a man's size/strength/skating and an absolutely excellent and strong stick. I think that kind of mature game shows itself in something like faceoffs, he was decent off the bat and then started winning them with regularity as soon as his second season. That's rare. From a goal-scoring perspective, he's been more consistent than everyone right away. He gets at least a goal in 42.9% of his games. Ovechkin is at 41.7%.

Outside of putting together close to a full season again, I just don't see where the big jump is going to come from. I think he's an excellent player, but I don't see him getting much better than he currently is.

 

[wintersej]

I want to explore the Matthews ceiling thing. Because when I watch him play, I'm really not seeing much room for growth. I think him playing in Toronto genuinely makes it impossible to even look at the overrated/underrated thing accurately, but I think as a pretty objective view I see him as a guy that came into the NHL as an extremely polished player. He had a man's size/strength/skating and an absolutely excellent and strong stick. I think that kind of mature game shows itself in something like faceoffs, he was decent off the bat and then started winning them with regularity as soon as his second season. That's rare. From a goal-scoring perspective, he's been more consistent than everyone right away. He gets at least a goal in 42.9% of his games. Ovechkin is at 41.7%.

Outside of putting together close to a full season again, I just don't see where the big jump is going to come from. I think he's an excellent player, but I don't see him getting much better than he currently is.

I think Matthews away from the puck game certainly has a lot of room to grow. I don't think there is much more there goal scoring wise, but defensively and puck control/cycle wise there is certainly room to grow. Just general effort and compete level there is room for growth. He has the physical tools to be a FORCE out there, but right now he just is an elite shot and kinda whatever elsewhere. That shot is obviously allows him to do the hardest thing in hockey, which is to score 5 on 5 goals in bunches... but there is a lot of untapped all around talent there.

That being said, it wouldn't shock me if his career was a lot like Joe Thornton's... excellent, All Star and HOFer (if he plays long enough)... but someone that had another level that he never was able to reach.

edit: and if Matthews DOESN'T improve in those other aspects... I wonder if playing in the middle is the right place for him. How many more goals does he score without the two way responsibilities of a center?

**insert joke about how playing for the Leafs means he doesn't have the two way responsibilities of a center**

 

[TheNumber4]

This poll isn’t about who you’d start a franchise with, but if it was why would you start a franchise with Matthews over Pasta who costs twice as much, produces less, and will force you to pay him UFA money in only 5 short years to keep him.

In any case, this poll is easily Pasta, as a player and franchise piece.

 

[Sky04]

Remember when people were trying to argue Nylander over Pasta? Now he's better than anyone on the leafs at half the price.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Would like to see how Pasta does away from Marchand/Bergy driving his own line before I answer. Or how Matthews would do centering Marchand/Pasta.

Until then, Homer.

 

[Regal]

I want to explore the Matthews ceiling thing. Because when I watch him play, I'm really not seeing much room for growth. I think him playing in Toronto genuinely makes it impossible to even look at the overrated/underrated thing accurately, but I think as a pretty objective view I see him as a guy that came into the NHL as an extremely polished player. He had a man's size/strength/skating and an absolutely excellent and strong stick. I think that kind of mature game shows itself in something like faceoffs, he was decent off the bat and then started winning them with regularity as soon as his second season. That's rare. From a goal-scoring perspective, he's been more consistent than everyone right away. He gets at least a goal in 42.9% of his games. Ovechkin is at 41.7%.

Outside of putting together close to a full season again, I just don't see where the big jump is going to come from. I think he's an excellent player, but I don't see him getting much better than he currently is.

I think it's consistency with him in terms of his all around game. He tends to have too many times where he's floating around a bit too much, and not engaged, whereas when he's on he's houding pucks, dominating along the boards and creating more chances. Also, his numbers at 5v5 are excellent, and his PP numbers were good last year as well. If he can put together his best 5v5 and on the PP, he's a 55 goal, 100 point player without two other stars on his line, while being a possession monster down low. He's only shown in it spurts so far though.

 

[Apotheosis]

Leafs fan saying Pasta right now. I think Matthews has the higher potential ceiling, but it would be disingenuous to say he's better than Pasta right now when Pasta is torching the league and is a cog in the best line in the entire league.

 

[Apotheosis]

I want to explore the Matthews ceiling thing. Because when I watch him play, I'm really not seeing much room for growth. I think him playing in Toronto genuinely makes it impossible to even look at the overrated/underrated thing accurately, but I think as a pretty objective view I see him as a guy that came into the NHL as an extremely polished player. He had a man's size/strength/skating and an absolutely excellent and strong stick. I think that kind of mature game shows itself in something like faceoffs, he was decent off the bat and then started winning them with regularity as soon as his second season. That's rare. From a goal-scoring perspective, he's been more consistent than everyone right away. He gets at least a goal in 42.9% of his games. Ovechkin is at 41.7%.

Outside of putting together close to a full season again, I just don't see where the big jump is going to come from. I think he's an excellent player, but I don't see him getting much better than he currently is.

Drive. He looks lazy or not interested in working that hard. "Angry" Matthews if you have ever seen him, is insane when he plays like that. Wins the puck back instantly, passing is pinpoint, players bounce off of him and his stickhandling is immense. If Matthews ever finds that gear consistently, he'll be absolutely insane. My gripe with him is that for a guy who is 6'3 220, larger than the majority of people he will forecheck against, he does cowardly stick checks and pokes rather than aggressively taking the body and separating guys from the puck.

 

[hockeyisgud]

Close this it's a landslide?

 

[typicalsavage]

I feel like we've been talking about "Matthews potential" and "Matthews ceiling" since he was drafted and he still has nothing to show for it

Yeah its kinda how everyone talks about the Oilers coming up as Canadas up and coming team yet their season always ends in December basically. If being one of the best 5v5 scorers in the league while having a constantly rotating cast of line mates isn't showing his potential than idk what to tell you. Hes playing lazy right now and it still scoring at a ppg and 50+ goal pace, god knows what he can do when things click for him. Hes been held back by injuries, his start last year was one of the most dominant I had seen from a player outside of McDavid, Crosby and the rest of the obvious.

 

[typicalsavage]

Pastrnak is my favourite player in the NHL in the NHL right now and im a Leafs fan. But id rather have Matthews, he's been held back by injuries but I feel if a coach can get through to him, he'll be one of the best.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Pasta. Don't even have to think about this one really.

 

[cneely]

Would like to see how Pasta does away from Marchand/Bergy driving his own line before I answer. Or how Matthews would do centering Marchand/Pasta.

Until then, Homer.

I mean, I guess its a fair comment, but if you watch Bruins games, Pasta drives possession and scoring chances on that line. Marchand is no slouch, but Pasta drives that line.

 

[Menzinger]

Lets see Pasta show that he can drive a line on his own

 

[KidLine93]

Development isn't linear. Matthews started his career hot but since then has he matured or improved that much? Pastrnak took a few years to become the player he is now but he's been consistant the last 4 years and was very impressive last year/this season so far. Matthews needs to take that next step still which I feel everyone is waiting for due to all the hype

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Pastrnak is my favourite player in the NHL in the NHL right now and im a Leafs fan. But id rather have Matthews, he's been held back by injuries but I feel if a coach can get through to him, he'll be one of the best.

Matthews always gets every excuse under the sun.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I want to explore the Matthews ceiling thing. Because when I watch him play, I'm really not seeing much room for growth. I think him playing in Toronto genuinely makes it impossible to even look at the overrated/underrated thing accurately, but I think as a pretty objective view I see him as a guy that came into the NHL as an extremely polished player. He had a man's size/strength/skating and an absolutely excellent and strong stick. I think that kind of mature game shows itself in something like faceoffs, he was decent off the bat and then started winning them with regularity as soon as his second season. That's rare. From a goal-scoring perspective, he's been more consistent than everyone right away. He gets at least a goal in 42.9% of his games. Ovechkin is at 41.7%.

Outside of putting together close to a full season again, I just don't see where the big jump is going to come from. I think he's an excellent player, but I don't see him getting much better than he currently is.

People never really talk about the floors of players, outside of 'low ceiling, high floor' players like Schenn & Gudbranson, and even then, 'bad, but physically developed' would be a more apt description. But there is something to be said for being, at worst, a ~40G/70p center. Even this season, his shooting percent and shots-per-game are only up about 20% on his career average (19.3% v.s 15.8%, 4.07 vs 3.42) yet he's scoring at almost a 65 goal pace. I don't think he'll score than many, but it's not even unreasonable to expect him to maintain that level over one season.

I think there is still a fair amount of maturing he needs to go through. Endurance, defensive zone consistency, compete etc. He is obviously extraordinarily capable, he just needs to want it every shift.

Also, to qualify his faceoff percentage, Babcock only lets him take ES & PP strong side (when he plays with Nylander) draws. This will inflate his FO% to a degree.

 

[typicalsavage]

Matthews always gets every excuse under the sun.

How tf is that an excuse? He was on pace for over 82 points and 40 goals last year. Per 82 games he's scored at an 80 point pace and a 44 goal pace over his career so far. Thats with never having establishing chemistry with anyone. Everyone wants to talk about how MacKinnon, Barkov and Draisaitl are so much better yet if you take their ppg's since Matthews entered ,they only score 4-7 more points per 82 games. Barkov is different cause he plays defence at a selke level but my point still stands. Also, despite missing 34 games since he's entered the league, he's still scored the 3rd most amount of goals since. His goal per game pace is nearly identical to Ovechkin's since the beginning of the 2016-17 season. Matthews is one of the games top players and he's only getting better.

 

[Ainec]

I have 409 posts arguing with leaf fans that Pastrnak was better than Nylander

Good times

This thread made me lol