Matt Kassian:Twilight of the Goon

[topshelf15]

Tough players that can drop the gloves,and also play a role . Are always going to have a job .The unskilled head cracker should have never lasted this long tbh

 

[jbeck5]

How does UFC get away without being sued for head damages? Those guys are going to be vegetables by the times they are 40

Maybe they sign a release knowing the whole point of the sport is to hit the other person in the head and hopefully knock them out?

 

[jbeck5]

Matt Kassian was terrible even by enforcer standards.

This. Can anyone remember him beating someone up? I remember him having trouble with smaller guys and always bear hugging like a bigger kanopka.

He was a big soft teddy bear who had to fight but didnt want to.

 

[Engineer]

Actually that's false. UFC is way safer than any other fighting sport especially boxing.

"Way safer" I find that extremely hard to believe.

Anything to back that up?

 

[Engineer]

Maybe they sign a release knowing the whole point of the sport is to hit the other person in the head and hopefully knock them out?

Does the NHL not have a release form for players acknowledging that there is a possibility of injuries from playing the sport?

 

[jbeck5]

Does the NHL not have a release form for players acknowledging that there is a possibility of injuries from playing the sport?

You'd hope so. lol

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

One punch, pack your lunch. That's the UFC. One big shot where the ref steps in right away is a lot better than repeated head shot after head shot with no one calling the fight. Oh, and it's not bare knuckle like the NHL.

That's only for big strikers as well, people don't like to talk about the submission and ground guys who are just as solid because it's not as sexy, both positive and negative.

Makes you wonder if it's possible to wear IFC style gloves inside hockey gloves for the goons out there.....if it's true their use might reduce serious head injuries. (Caveat - I don't know anything about the IFC or the equipment they use.)

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

You don't think Ottawa was intimidated by Pronger when he nearly took McAmmond's head off with an elbow & no one did anything about it? The series changed in a big way after that but I agree they were tougher.

You don't think the Sens were intimidated when McLaren dropped Dzuirzynski & pretty much ended his short lived NHL career? You don't think Ottawa was effected when Orr dropped Caukner in almost every fight they had? The Toronto players were not afraid to play in Ottawa, in fact, the revelled in it & rubbed our noses in it. Their star players played better in Ottawa because their tough guys allowed it to happen & Ottawa did nothing about it. The Leafs have beaten Ottawa repeatedly & IMO it's because they have always had the tougher team or the tougher enforcer.

All this stuff is myth-making and facile storytelling. If Orr and Carkner aren't playing and Dzuizynski and McLaren aren't playing both teams are just playing hockey. Hits are still happening and so are rushes and goals and saves.

I mean, I appreciate that Borocop and the other dude are taking facepunches but it's a useless part of the game. There are no visible possession gains and losses after fights and the amount of goals scored for after a "won" fight is negligible. These guys are relics of old school thinking and we'll eventually have a modern GM who understands analytics and the speed game. We'll be faster and quicker instead of being burdened by these behemoths and we'll be on top of the league because of it.

 

[Sens Rule]

Have you ever played competitive sports where fighting is part of the game? Do you know what it is like to have the threat of being beat up on every shift? Have you not heard that intimidation is a big part of the game? Have you never heard how players grow an inch knowing their backs are protected? Did the Leafs not play better with Domi or Orr in their lineup? Which team got the bigger lift when Orr dropped Caukner in two or three games? Why do you think the Leafs have had Ottawa's number for so long? Some players react better than others under those circumstances, the Leaf players have always played better with an enforcer on their team or is it just a coincidence that they suck this yr with basically the same team as last yr with the exception of no enforcer?

Even helps you win. Carkner straightening out Boyle for messing with Karlsson set the tone for that series. Konopka who was pretty useless in the reg season was effective in the playoffs. Neil had like 63 hits vs the Habs and was pivotal in that series.

I was surprised by the effectiveness of our fighters in recent playoffs here.

Boro got signed for 3 years even before he had really played in the NHL much. Partly because he is a freakshow willing to do anything for the team. Murray was wise doing that.

I really worry about Neil in 5,10,20 years. It would be so awful to see him as a broken down punch drunk guy after laying it all on the line for Ottawa for 15 years. I hope it never happens and he is fine. All this concussion stuff and broken down hockey and football players makes me worry.

Maybe fighting needs to be gone? I like it, but if it ends up ruining so many brains is it worth it?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Even helps you win. Carkner straightening out Boyle for messing with Karlsson set the tone for that series. Konopka who was pretty useless in the reg season was effective in the playoffs. Neil had like 63 hits vs the Habs and was pivotal in that series.

I was surprised by the effectiveness of our fighters in recent playoffs here.

Boro got signed for 3 years even before he had really played in the NHL much. Partly because he is a freakshow willing to do anything for the team. Murray was wise doing that.

I really worry about Neil in 5,10,20 years. It would be so awful to see him as a broken down punch drunk guy after laying it all on the line for Ottawa for 15 years. I hope it never happens and he is fine. All this concussion stuff and broken down hockey and football players makes me worry.

Maybe fighting needs to be gone? I like it, but if it ends up ruining so many brains is it worth it?

There has to be a way of making things somewhat safer.

Maybe having hockey helmets that are football quality? Having full cages and keeping the mitts (and helmets) on while fighting? I dunno. The purists would scream about the lack of bloody gladiators heading to the box....but if it saves lives after their careers are over, it's worth it.

 

[Sens Rule]

There has to be a way of making things somewhat safer.

Maybe having hockey helmets that are football quality? Having full cages and keeping the mitts (and helmets) on while fighting? I dunno. The purists would scream about the lack of bloody gladiators heading to the box....but if it saves lives after their careers are over, it's worth it.

You can't do that though. You can't have players wear boxing gloves under their gloves. You can't really fight a guy with a helmet. It us ridiculous. So many broken fingers.

When hockey is moving so much against fighting, thinking that special rules or equipment are going to be brought in to encourage it is unlikely.

I kind if think fighting will always exist but it will be a game misconduct. So you only would see fights after someone does something awful. Like cheapshotting Karlsson of something. Fights will be rare but if you fight you go to the showers. But no suspensions like in the other 3 sports. There will be a few fights a year for each team and everyone of those will be meaningful and will be a big deal. No more fights every second game. No more enforcers.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You can't do that though. You can't have players wear boxing gloves under their gloves. You can't really fight a guy with a helmet. It us ridiculous. So many broken fingers.

When hockey is moving so much against fighting, thinking that special rules or equipment are going to be brought in to encourage it is unlikely.

I kind if think fighting will always exist but it will be a game misconduct. So you only would see fights after someone does something awful. Like cheapshotting Karlsson of something. Fights will be rare but if you fight you go to the showers. But no suspensions like in the other 3 sports. There will be a few fights a year for each team and everyone of those will be meaningful and will be a big deal. No more fights every second game. No more enforcers.

I mean, keep their regular hockey gloves on. If guys can keep their helmets on and fight (heck, they're supposed to now) then it only makes sense to keep the hockey gloves on as well. (To me, anyways.)

 

[Ice-Tray]

From what I remember, very few head injuries come from fights, though it gets all of the feathers ruffled cause it looks bad.

Hits.

Reminds me of the big push for hybrids and electric cars, when car emissions are so miniscule in the grand scheme of things as to border on the ridiculous.

Industry.

 

[playasRus]

It's probably more to do with making hockey more entertaining with less staged fights where that usually don't amount to much anyway.

I always hated watching guys skate in circles for 5 minutes only to grapple standing and tire out before a ref stepped in.

On the other hand, Matt Carkner was a beaut.

 

[Engineer]

From what I remember, very few head injuries come from fights, though it gets all of the feathers ruffled cause it looks bad.

Hits.

Reminds me of the big push for hybrids and electric cars, when car emissions are so miniscule in the grand scheme of things as to border on the ridiculous.

Industry.

What a silly comparison.

Also:

In 2012, greenhouse gas emissions from transportation accounted for about 28% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, making it the second largest contributor of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions after the Electricity sector.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources/transportation.html

Definitely "minuscule"

Also if you think the push for fuel efficiency is going away - you should refer to Californias new emissions requirements.

And before you say "consumer vehicles are small in regards to the whole transpo industry" refer to Elon Musk's comments about the future EV technology moving into commercial transportation.

 

[Ice-Tray]

What a silly comparison.

Also:



http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources/transportation.html

Definitely "minuscule"

Also if you think the push for fuel efficiency is going away - you should refer to Californias new emissions requirements.

And before you say "consumer vehicles are small in regards to the whole transpo industry" refer to Elon Musk's comments about the future EV technology moving into commercial transportation.

Engineer? Pfffft....

I'll say what I want and do what I want.

Also, I'm going to enjoy my V12 while you put around in your hybrid and I don't care what 'facts' or 'links' or 'ideas' you present. Climate control is for suckers and chumps, deal with it.

Great article, it's always sad reading about the end of people's livelihood, but I have to agree that the enforcer role really did evolve into something that was in the end the key to it's own demise.

Tough guys have to be able to take a regular shift, and put up some points, in my opinion, Neil has been one of the greatest enforcers of his era for this very reason.