GDT: Martin St. Louis Press Conference (11:30AM ET)

[Miller Time]

Someone who has coached people who can at least grow a few whiskers.

In all seriousness I've been hoping for Montgomery but I know that's not possible until the offseason. I would have been fine with an interim coach from inside the organization (Richardson or Houle) for the remainder of the season.

I'm hoping for the best with MSL but I find the hire extremely odd. When was the last time a coach was hired who never even coached Junior aged kids? It used to happen in the 70s and 80s. Even Lemaire and Gainey got pro coaching experience overseas before they debuted in the NHL during an era when coaching was less technical and specialized.

For an organization that's talking about building a new analytics department, there is zero data out there to base this interim head coach hiring on. I also wonder if we're going into deeper nepotism territory than we've ever seen. I see a trend of affinity towards former TB/NYR employees and graduates from hockey programs in New England.

So I'm going to try to be cautiously optimistic but I find it bananas that people are so excited about the hiring but can't say anything substantive about MSL's coaching credentials other than Hall of Fame player, confident, refreshing and outside the box.

all fair points...

re. Nepotism... i think this word is getting thrown around a bit much. Unless i missed something, there is no evidence that Gorton/Hughes were "friends". That they knew each other and had a friendly relationship is one thing, but nepotism isn't about hiring people you know, its about hiring friends/family based on the personal relationship. While Hughes didn't have GM experience, he was one of many candidates we interviewed without that (did we actually interview anyone with GM experience?) and his background certainly qualifies him for the opportunity on its own merits.

MSL is definitely more of a "reach"... but it's an interim deal in a very unique situation. His background, imo, fits well to the opportunity... and again here, is there any evidence of him being close friends of Gorton/Hughes?

Hiring people you know in a business where trust is important is not a bad thing... it's only an issue if the hiring and the performance accountability prioritizes the relationship over the outcomes.

If MSL isn't able to get the team (or at least some of the players we want to keep longer term) playing better -as in more cohesive/engaged/competitive- by the end of the year, then we'll see how the management group assesses his work and wether or not this trial is legit. If he does create a visible sign of progress, and the internal evaluations justify an extension to a permanent HC positions, then all the better on them from going a bit outside the box to target quality talent vs the safer route of just re-treading old names.... i mean, Vigneault was available lol

 

[barbu]

Red Kelly
Brian Sutter
Jacques Lemaire (to a lesser extent)

This is not the first time and a gamble, but they don't have anything to loose. In the last few seasons we had experienced coaches (Martin, Therrien 2.0, Julien 2.0), coaches with normal career paths (Therrien 1.0, Vigneault, Julien 1.0) and inexperienced coaches (Carbonneau, Ducharme) all of them failed to an extent and most were deemed terrible after 1-2-3 seasons on this very board.

Think outside the box. The only path that wasn't taken is to get the right personality even without any real experience. In many professions, confidence and credibility is key. MSL has that.

Overconfidence is when someone cannot backup his confidence with his skills and that's trouble, but we'll see.

Glad to see there were some success stories, I was wondering. Jacques Lemaire had significantly better experience than coaching at the pee wee level though.

That said, for every Red Kelly or Brian Sutter out there there has to be 10 Mario Tremblay and Guy Carbonneau who never even got a 2nd chance.

And we do have something to lose. The youth that needs actual coaching and Martin St-Louis definitely has something to lose.

 

[Takeru]

Coaching in 2022 is less about Xs and Os and more about how you handle the 23 different personalities, how you engage your players, how receptive they are to your coaching, how much they buy-in.

Experience is overrated...but credibility isn't.

Had a thought along these lines yesterday following the nomination.

It remains to be seen how well MSL will accomplish what you listed, but the game depends on the players first and foremost.

A coach has to maximize his players' output, beyond that I'm not sure how much impact he has on team's success.
While a bad coach can be a detriment, being a master tactician doesn't always yield good performance.

Look at Babcock a few years back. Was seen as an all star and highly coveted coach, didn't accomplish anything meaningful with an increasingly loaded leafs team, had tense interactions with star players and was booted out promptly. Coaching success highly dependent on players output rather than traditionnal coaching talent.

Tl;dr - I tend to agree with your view on modern coaching and am cautiously awaiting to see what MSL will fare in these aspects.

 

[Schooner Guy]

all fair points...

re. Nepotism... i think this word is getting thrown around a bit much. Unless i missed something, there is no evidence that Gorton/Hughes were "friends". That they knew each other and had a friendly relationship is one thing, but nepotism isn't about hiring people you know, its about hiring friends/family based on the personal relationship. While Hughes didn't have GM experience, he was one of many candidates we interviewed without that (did we actually interview anyone with GM experience?) and his background certainly qualifies him for the opportunity on its own merits.

MSL is definitely more of a "reach"... but it's an interim deal in a very unique situation. His background, imo, fits well to the opportunity... and again here, is there any evidence of him being close friends of Gorton/Hughes?

Hiring people you know in a business where trust is important is not a bad thing... it's only an issue if the hiring and the performance accountability prioritizes the relationship over the outcomes.

If MSL isn't able to get the team (or at least some of the players we want to keep longer term) playing better -as in more cohesive/engaged/competitive- by the end of the year, then we'll see how the management group assesses his work and wether or not this trial is legit. If he does create a visible sign of progress, and the internal evaluations justify an extension to a permanent HC positions, then all the better on them from going a bit outside the box to target quality talent vs the safer route of just re-treading old names.... i mean, Vigneault was available lol

Hughes is also the candidate I wanted the most based on his skillset. His first big move certainly was outside the box thinking. We'll see if he makes other quirky moves.

You're probably right about nepotism being thrown around too loosely. It just seemed bizarre that out of all the coaches across the planet, Hughes selects a fellow hockey dad from the Northeastern Huskies who has never coached kids old enough to drive while at the same time rumours were running rampant about Lecavalier being hired as AGM. The nepotism talk's really going to heat up when we draft Jack Hughes from Northeastern with the #1 overall pick!

One other concern I have with this hire is how in the world do we fairly assess MSL with this piss poor roster? Dealing with disgruntled multimillionaire athletes is a whole new ball game after coaching pre-teens.

 

[DenverHabsFan]

That said, for every Red Kelly or Brian Sutter out there there has to be 10 Mario Tremblay and Guy Carbonneau who never even got a 2nd chance.

Habs finished 1st in the conference in 2007-08 with probably the most entertaining team in the last 2 decades.

 

[salbutera]

Habs finished 1st in the conference in 2007-08 with probably the most entertaining team in the last 2 decades.

Didn’t that team live & die off PP scoring? It’s what killed them those playoffs, especially vs Philly - couldn’t score 5-on-5

 

[Forsead]

Habs finished 1st in the conference in 2007-08 with probably the most entertaining team in the last 2 decades.

Incredible how the standard were lowered during Bergy tenure. Carbonneau wasn't that bad in retrospective and even was in the playoffs when he was canned.

 

[Cookie007]

Didn’t that team live & die off PP scoring? It’s what killed them those playoffs, especially vs Philly - couldn’t score 5-on-5

that team got killed by riding two young goalies in the playoffs.
I wonder what 2nd round pick did we turn it out to be by trading huet to Washington that year

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Just don’t go and blow this season by getting out of the top 5...

With that roster and the upcoming vets traded , Don't worry

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

He would 100% be a homicide detective if he wasn't a hockey executive.

Holy f*** my sides

 

[dinodebino]

The concept word instead of system pleases me. 99pcent of all junior league and hot shot up and coming coaches, usually act pike Ducharme : it’s not my system at fault, but the players’. You just need to hear Guy Boucher talk during games to see that breed of coaches think that it’s systems that win games, not players.
I don’t believe Cooper and Brind’Amour (Sullivan too) are of the same breed.

 

[1909]

I hope the advanced stats fans had their ears opened when St-Louis was asked a question about it.

St-Louis prefers to lean on his own perception and video reviews to judge a player performance.

 

[dcyhabs]

Pretty much everyone was ok with Bergevin at the time, until he hired Therrien and that's when a bunch of us started questioning him.

I thought he was trying to tank for picks.

 

[Miller Time]

One other concern I have with this hire is how in the world do we fairly assess MSL with this piss poor roster? Dealing with disgruntled multimillionaire athletes is a whole new ball game after coaching pre-teens.

tbh, these days it's probably not really that different


but yeah, it is an interesting evaluation question... in some ways, the relationship piece may be the only reason MSL was willing to accept the role. He's been focused on coaching since he retired, didn't jump to the pro circuit because of family commitments, but both in his personal pursuits and -i would imagine- his conversations/communications with his vast network, he was laying the ground work to eventually make a jump to coaching.

the timing/circumstances that made this opportunity a fit were highly unpredictable for anyone, and assuming that Gorton/Hughes (with, one would have to think, considerable pressure from their boss, who is already paying for 2 other HC and another GM) understand how important it is to get the permanent HC hire right this summer, it's actually a bigger risk for MSL...

terrible team dynamics,
veteran leadership playing like they want out
deadline sell off impending
no NHL caliber goaltending (unless Allen comes back healthy
market with massive spotlight
opening day scrutiny of the job coming because of relationship instead of qualifications
no experience in the role

he is not really set up to have much success and the cards are legitimately stacked against him being the long term choice unless he makes magic out of this hot mess

i still suspect there's a plan in place for him to shift into the assistant role with a known commodity (Torts?) parachuted in to be HC next few years with him groomed to take over after 3-4 years... but that PC certainly gave the impression that he wants this to be his job and that he's going to work to prove he deserves it.

if they are building the culture of excellence we all want, there's a lot about this interim hire that is WIN-WIN for the organization... we'll see how it all plays out!

 

[salbutera]

I hope the advanced stats fans had their ears opened when St-Louis was asked a question about it.

St-Louis prefers to lean on his own perception and video reviews to judge a player performance.

Not quite, as Arpon Basu pointed out:



Trust me, he heavily uses analytics to gauge the kids here in CT even during his summer camp - but he’s got an entire team of data scientist college interns supporting him - that’s the message being sent, he needs that support to use analytics effectively & meaningfully

 

[1909]

The concept word instead of system pleases me. 99pcent of all junior league and hot shot up and coming coaches, usually act pike Ducharme : it’s not my system at fault, but the players’. You just need to hear Guy Boucher talk during games to see that breed of coaches think that it’s systems that win games, not players.
I don’t believe Cooper and Brind’Amour (Sullivan too) are of the same breed.

What do they have in common ? Some star and very skilled players !

 

[1909]

Not quite, as Arpon Basu pointed out:

MSL was not at ease to answer that question. The actual advanced stats don't seem to suit his needs. He is looking for something else (which might or not exist yet)
And he prefers to judge with his own eyes.

 

[TesseractPrice]

I hope the advanced stats fans had their ears opened when St-Louis was asked a question about it.

St-Louis prefers to lean on his own perception and video reviews to judge a player performance.

Advanced stats are missing some basic data IMO before taking the next step but it's a question of time IMO. At this stage they are useful but not as powerful as they could be

An AI able to track puck and players 2D coordinates and movements automatically from footage and generate data out of them would be absolutely revolutionary

 

[Runner77]

Gaston is so f***ing salty.

f*** off loser. lol

Of course he is. He can't stand that someone who didn't start at the bottom before getting an NHL head coaching job.

 

[Runner77]

Worst question of the day:
dId yOu gUYs DO eNOugH tO hELp dOM??

Of course, they helped Dom.

 

[Runner77]

Is he a breath of fresh air though?

Not sure. He might just represent a "change of culture."

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Last year under Ducharme I felt like he was 50% coaching the same as Julien with dumb decisions on OT starters and the other 50% was either doing MBs bidding or trying to do what he thought the GM wanted like playing Staal over KK, Merrill over Romanov. This year has been a disaster with everything so can’t say for sure he’s a bad pro coach but he needs to hit the reset button. I don’t think MSL will be anyones puppet and he will want to put his stamp on this ASAP

 

[barbu]

Habs finished 1st in the conference in 2007-08 with probably the most entertaining team in the last 2 decades.

That's true. But it didn't end well and he never got another chance as far as I know.

edit: What I am trying to say is, these stories usually do not end well for the team, and for the coaches it's even worse. Like in the case of Carbonneau, he didn't do all that bad in some regards, but I guess gave off some red flags like throwing his players under the bus, and it turned off eventual suitors. I felt he should have had another chance but the stigma was too much and maybe if he had better prior experience he would have learned to handle some situations better.

 

[Kriss E]

What's more important than fans though? They're literaly the reason why this is a multi-billion industry.

I mean..fans are created through the eliteness of the sport. You pay big bucks to go see excellence performance. But yes, no fans, no cash. Doesn't mean they have a say in how you build a team.

 

[MD thaivuN]

MSL was not at ease to answer that question. The actual advanced stats don't seem to suit his needs. He is looking for something else (which might or not exist yet)
And he prefers to judge with his own eyes.

Honestly, a coach shouldn't be answering questions about advanced stats. Data is better evaluated on the large sample size over longer period of time. Coaches deal on the shorter term.