Confirmed with Link: Martin St. Louis Back for 3 More Seasons (Club Exercised Option)

Natey

GOATS
Aug 2, 2005
62,325
8,499
I want to throw up. He's the perfect candidate for an assistant coach. Excellent motivator. Excellent friend to the players. And obviously got good results out of Slafkovsky, but I wager Cunneyworth could have got the same results. Slafkovsky was never failing.

He is terrible at adapting. He tinkers with lineup far, far too often. He, like any coach, plays favourites... but to a terrible degree. Usually coaches have favourites who given 138042% every single shift but really don't have that much talent... not St. Louis. You can be the biggest floater ever and if he likes you, you stay.

I'm still annoyed Kovacevic played so little. Is Kovacevic a hill worth dying on? Probably not. Is Kovacevic going to change our woes? Obviously not. But how players like him get removed from the lineup every other game when players like Josh Anderson can float without care is absolutely mind-boggling.

Whatever your take is on advanced stats (you don't need them to see that Anderson is an absolutely terrible hockey player) - do you know who Anderson had the same point share as? Kirby f***ing Dach and Logan f***ing Mailloux. Both of those players contributed the same this season as Josh Anderson... and both of them did it in... 2 games or LESS (and yes, I know ice-time is taken in account). What's Anderson there for? Offense? He ranked last on our team. Even Kovacevic ranked higher than him in offensive point shares. Defense point shares? Kovacevic lead the team and it really wasn't even that close. Again, whether or not you think point shares (or advanced stats in general) are a good tool... the eye test, as well as other stats would tell the same story. Even the most simple and probably most flawed stat, in +/- shows my point.

At the end of the day, I don't hate Marty. But I think he's better suited as an assistant. Maybe he'll grow some more... it's not like the GMs gave him much to work with this season (97 defenseman, 36 goalies, etc).
 
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lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
4,416
1,680
I want to throw up. He's the perfect candidate for an assistant coach. Excellent motivator. Excellent friend to the players. And obviously got good results out of Slafkovsky, but I wager Cunneyworth could have got the same results. Slafkovsky was never failing.

He is terrible at adapting. He tinkers with lineup far, far too often. He, like any coach, plays favourites... but to a terrible degree. Usually coaches have favourites who given 138042% every single shift but really don't have that much talent... not St. Louis. You can be the biggest floater ever and if he likes you, you stay.

I'm still annoyed Kovacevic played so little. Is Kovacevic a hill worth dying on? Probably not. Is Kovacevic going to change our woes? Obviously not. But how players like him get removed from the lineup every other game when players like Josh Anderson can float without care is absolutely mind-boggling.

Whatever your take is on advanced stats (you don't need them to see that Anderson is an absolutely terrible hockey player) - do you know who Anderson had the same point share as? Kirby f***ing Dach and Logan f***ing Mailloux. Both of those players contributed the same this season as Josh Anderson... and both of them did it in... 2 games or LESS (and yes, I know ice-time is taken in account). What's Anderson there for? Offense? He ranked last on our team. Even Kovacevic ranked higher than him in offensive point shares. Defense point shares? Kovacevic lead the team and it really wasn't even that close. Again, whether or not you think point shares (or advanced stats in general) are a good tool... the eye test, as well as other stats would tell the same story. Even the most simple and probably most flawed stat, in +/- shows my point.

At the end of the day, I don't hate Marty. But I think he's better suited as an assistant. Maybe he'll grow some more... it's not like the GMs gave him much to work with this season (97 defenseman, 36 goalies, etc).

Anderson is a hockey ops problem, not a head coach problem. Guys with contracts will get played, always has been.
 

Natey

GOATS
Aug 2, 2005
62,325
8,499
Anderson is a hockey ops problem, not a head coach problem. Guys with contracts will get played, always has been.
We've sat guys with contracts before. And even if, we've benched them before. Plenty of times. Anderson is scot-free though. Can't wait till he plays 75+ next year, nets 10 goals, and gives us another rocking -30420 performance.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
91,816
94,239
Halifax
Comparing why Kovacevic gets benched and why Anderson doesn't is apples to oranges. If you remove Kovacevic, you have Struble, Harris, or Barron to step in. If you remove Anderson, it's Colin White.

Not to mention during a rebuild/tank year, there is more value in trying to get Anderson back on track than there is in just allowing Tanner Pearson to play instead.

I'm sure if Ylonen warranted his minutes, he would have gotten them, but he didn't.
 

lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
4,416
1,680
We've sat guys with contracts before. And even if, we've benched them before. Plenty of times. Anderson is scot-free though. Can't wait till he plays 75+ next year, nets 10 goals, and gives us another rocking -30420 performance.

Benching the player for a game or two isn't going to solve the problem. Its not as if there were more deserving players down the lineup that he was blocking.
 
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lamp9post

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Jan 28, 2007
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CC is a big problem on the first PP wave, and Slafkovski's game explains why.
CC can finish, but his retrieval rate is abysmal. He should not be on our first PP, but he would be a great second PP guy. We'll be successful when Gallagher/Armia (players who are not bringing teams closer to the playoffs anymore, are passengers, third liners), etc., stop being the second option.

Changing CC for someone who can finish AND retrieve would make a world of difference (Celebrini to give a concrete example), and we would have a top-5 PP efficiency. Not only would the first unit be better, but it would also move a competitive talent like Caufield to a second unit.

We're still losing a lot because we have only 1 top 6 unit out of 2 required.

You don't move our best sniper to the 2nd unit because his retrieval skills are subpar. That's a secondary consideration at best when formulating a top unit. Next you'll be saying we need to put Dvorak on PP1 because of his face-off ability.
 
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Chili

En boca cerrada no entran moscas
Jun 10, 2004
8,527
4,445
It's great that they have a goal to make the playoffs but talk and action are two different things.

How would management grade themselves on the player acquisitions in the last year? i.e. :

Alex Newhook
Tanner Pearson
Gustav Lindstrom
Lias Andersson
Nathan Legare
Filip Cederqvist
Colin White
Jacob Perreault
Arnaud Durandeau

If they are serious in helping the NHL roster, they need upgrades. They have plenty of draft picks to make some moves. I am curious to see if they try to re-sign Sean Monahan who could definitely help and seemed comfortable with his role, although at this point in his career he probably wants to play for a contender if he can.

I do think Marty could use some help, like an experienced NHL coach in an advisor role. Someone with a thorough knowledge of the league.
 
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OldCraig71

Registered User
Feb 2, 2009
35,109
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I don't get attached to any coach because they come and go so frequently but I will say that MSL seems to communicate well with the players and with a rebuilding lineup it is a must, I like that about him.

It will be interesting to see if he has another level to go to as a coach, the expectations are different when there's nothing at stake and losses don't have the same meaning as a team trying to compete for a playoff spot(see Detroit) I look forward to the new season and I want to see them fight for the playoffs, it's more fun to watch games that mean something.
 
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Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,406
34,985
Montreal
One journalist was smart enough to ask about the negatives management perceived with our group.
The first word out of Kent's mouth was "Physical" and then special teams.
It proves to me they are well aware that our role players aren't nearly good enough.
Sure we need to add talent but they understand that will not automatically make us competitive.
I also wish someone asked what steps could be taken to ensure we don't get ZONED to the extent we have been.
Nobody needs fancy analytics to see it is a huge problem that still has to be addressed.
 

Ezpz

No mad pls
Apr 16, 2013
14,923
11,087
I want to throw up. He's the perfect candidate for an assistant coach. Excellent motivator. Excellent friend to the players. And obviously got good results out of Slafkovsky, but I wager Cunneyworth could have got the same results. Slafkovsky was never failing.

He is terrible at adapting. He tinkers with lineup far, far too often. He, like any coach, plays favourites... but to a terrible degree. Usually coaches have favourites who given 138042% every single shift but really don't have that much talent... not St. Louis. You can be the biggest floater ever and if he likes you, you stay.

I'm still annoyed Kovacevic played so little. Is Kovacevic a hill worth dying on? Probably not. Is Kovacevic going to change our woes? Obviously not. But how players like him get removed from the lineup every other game when players like Josh Anderson can float without care is absolutely mind-boggling.

Whatever your take is on advanced stats (you don't need them to see that Anderson is an absolutely terrible hockey player) - do you know who Anderson had the same point share as? Kirby f***ing Dach and Logan f***ing Mailloux. Both of those players contributed the same this season as Josh Anderson... and both of them did it in... 2 games or LESS (and yes, I know ice-time is taken in account). What's Anderson there for? Offense? He ranked last on our team. Even Kovacevic ranked higher than him in offensive point shares. Defense point shares? Kovacevic lead the team and it really wasn't even that close. Again, whether or not you think point shares (or advanced stats in general) are a good tool... the eye test, as well as other stats would tell the same story. Even the most simple and probably most flawed stat, in +/- shows my point.

At the end of the day, I don't hate Marty. But I think he's better suited as an assistant. Maybe he'll grow some more... it's not like the GMs gave him much to work with this season (97 defenseman, 36 goalies, etc).
To be honest if Anderson wasn't the player he liked you would love Marty as a coach. Andy had a bad year, no doubt about it. Marty was right to stick with him because Andy did show up and push himself to be relevant mid-season. He was the hardest working guy on the team for the first 40 games. Then he fell off again and Marty responded and moved him down the lineup. Something we never saw with Desharnais and Therrien (or any other coaches pet players), who got infinite chances until Bergevin was forced to trade him at the deadline and not re-sign him to a lesser role because Therrien would not stop giving him top 6 minutes. DD was out of the league a year later. Andy will come into camp next year penciled for a bottom six role and it will be up to him to even earn that spot or get Armia'd. I don't think he is traded or bought out, but I think they likely talked with Andy about what they expect next year in training camp.
I'm sure we'll also find out Andy had a knee, calf, or leg injury mid-season because he suddenly lost all his explosiveness after that game or two he missed with a lower body injury. In the end, Andy's ice time dropped by an average of four minutes a game over the course of the season. Marty did adjust, we just didn't have anything to work with at forward. Having guys like Andy, Gally, Armia, Dvorak, and Pearson making more than McDavid and Draisatl combined, plus an extra two million, for less offensive contribution than either of them, and not even close to McDavid, is a big issue. 5 guys for 23 mil putting up 98 points. Not much Marty can do with that, it's not just Andy's fault solely. Not to mention he shot at less than half of his career average. He should have put up 10 more goals. That kind of luck (or unluck) usually normalizes one way or another.

Plus Gallagher was just as brutal, if not more, for the majority of the season, but the consensus is that he is back because he put up 10 points in the last eight games after we were already eliminated. A lot of the scapegoats showed up in the final two weeks.

Kovacevic's offensive numbers and metrics were also skewed by a flurry of points in April after we were already out. He's definitely serviceable but he's not a key piece. He's one of those guys whose metrics are good because they play so little. Playing him more would drive down his defensive impact, not bring the team metrics up.

Andy is also irrelevant to his role because we are deep at D and paper thin at forward. Who would Andy even sit for? We didn't have any actual NHLer forwards sitting at any point this season in the press box. None of the call ups impressed except Roy. Was Kovacevic worth playing over Xhekaj or Harris or the plethora of other young dmen that needed ice time to develop? I will admit Struble probably could have went back to Laval to lessen the rotation but Matheson was the only D who played 82 games. Guhle is the only other D that didn't get scratched. Kovacevic was third in games played, though obviously behind Savard who missed time for injury.

Marty did a lot with the roster he was given. There should not have been a step forward with the complete lack of off-season moves compounded by losing Dach in game 2. And yet we must have been close to leading the league in one-goal games. He probably does need a more seasoned assistant for certain aspects but that's for him to decide. This is the first coach that hasn't ruined our prospects in my conscious lifetime. The boys play harder for him than I've seen in this organization in a long time.

The bigger issue is guys like Ylonen and RHP not claiming spots. They need established NHLers in those roles if they want to compete for the playoffs. Nick Suzuki proved this year that anyone playing with him will put up points or at least contribute to his production, and RHP proved that not playing with Nick Suzuki cratered his offensive production. I could see them both being traded in change of scenery scenarios, they're both 25 going into next season and RHP will turn 26. Andy already had multiple 20 goal seasons at that age. Gally more. I would guess Dvo also will be dealt because we can't walk into next year with multiple injury-riddled centers.

One thing I think you do overlook with Andy is he does play a significant number of games. He does usually get banged up because of his play style and miss a few, but he still plays roughly 70+ a year. Compared to Dach who missed 80 games, Dvo who missed 50, Pearson who missed 30, The thing is Josh also led the team in penalties drawn by a ton. His 31 penalties drawn at our 17.5% PP is 5 and a half goals. If we'd had a normal PP it would be closed to 8-9. He took a few too but he was still positive in penalty differential. Not like Guhle, Slaf, Xhekaj, Kovacevic, Savard, etc who all likely contributed to an extra 3-6 goals against each with our brutal PK. Josh is consistent in that he plays the right way typically, eats minutes, and offers more positives than negatives. More offensive contribution would be nice, but he's not a brutal below replacement level player like a RHP or Ylonen.

Also just bringing up advanced stats briefly, Josh was the most "unlucky" forward on the team this year with his xgoals expected being far higher than his actual goal total. While Gallagher and Armia both scored far above their expected. In almost every metric Ylonen and RHP were beneath or equal to Anderson. Guys trying to crack the league being worse than a guy who is having a career worst season. To to mention Anderson taking heavier minutes against better players skewing his numbers downwards.

Now you know how the rest of the forum felt during the Desharnais era at least.
 

OldCraig71

Registered User
Feb 2, 2009
35,109
54,834
No one cares
One journalist was smart enough to ask about the negatives management perceived with our group.
The first word out of Kent's mouth was "Physical" and then special teams.
It proves to me they are well aware that our role players aren't nearly good enough.
Sure we need to add talent but they understand that will not automatically make us competitive.
I also wish someone asked what steps could be taken to ensure we don't get ZONED to the extent we have been.
Nobody needs fancy analytics to see it is a huge problem that still has to be addressed.

I didn't like the way we were running around in our end chasing the puck carrier around. When someone lost their guy he was left wide open which often led to us being hemmed in. One other thing was the space left for an opposing player down low on the PK, there was too much of it and it cost us many easy scoring chances.
 

MasterD

Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Jul 1, 2004
5,624
5,004
th


MSL needs better asst's
the pp sucks , needs to be addressed with young players coming up
We just added Hutson and Mailloux. Dach will be back next year, Newhook found his scoring touch a few weeks after coming back from injury.

I'd say we need 1 more sniping winger and we're pretty much set for the PP, if Burrows can wake up.
 

MasterD

Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Jul 1, 2004
5,624
5,004
It's great that they have a goal to make the playoffs but talk and action are two different things.

How would management grade themselves on the player acquisitions in the last year? i.e. :

Alex Newhook
Tanner Pearson
Gustav Lindstrom
Lias Andersson
Nathan Legare
Filip Cederqvist
Colin White
Jacob Perreault
Arnaud Durandeau

If they are serious in helping the NHL roster, they need upgrades. They have plenty of draft picks to make some moves. I am curious to see if they try to re-sign Sean Monahan who could definitely help and seemed comfortable with his role, although at this point in his career he probably wants to play for a contender if he can.

I do think Marty could use some help, like a experienced NHL coach in an advisor role. Someone with a thorough knowledge of the league.
Remove Newhook from this list, and we gave scraps to get scraps. They weren't trying to improve this year's team with those moves.

Let's see this summer and next yeat.
 

Canadiens98

Registered User
Jan 29, 2021
374
651
It's great that they have a goal to make the playoffs but talk and action are two different things.

How would management grade themselves on the player acquisitions in the last year? i.e. :

Alex Newhook
Tanner Pearson
Gustav Lindstrom
Lias Andersson
Nathan Legare
Filip Cederqvist
Colin White
Jacob Perreault
Arnaud Durandeau

If they are serious in helping the NHL roster, they need upgrades. They have plenty of draft picks to make some moves. I am curious to see if they try to re-sign Sean Monahan who could definitely help and seemed comfortable with his role, although at this point in his career he probably wants to play for a contender if he can.

I do think Marty could use some help, like a experienced NHL coach in an advisor role. Someone with a thorough knowledge of the league.
Many of those moves were attempts to improve Laval and aside from the Newhook trade, we gave up very little
 
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Chili

En boca cerrada no entran moscas
Jun 10, 2004
8,527
4,445
Remove Newhook from this list, and we gave scraps to get scraps. They weren't trying to improve this year's team with those moves.

Let's see this summer and next yeat.
It's the same with individual players or the roster itself. You want to see growth, progression. It takes a lot of positive moves to build a true contender, it just doesn't happen overnight. I believe a team should always be looking for ways to improve. We'll see what they do to that end this summer.
 

The Real Timo

Registered User
Jun 18, 2019
14,509
18,076
Grooooossss! Argh. Not surprising though. I knew it was going to happen. But this essentially means Habs will not be aspiring for playoffs for the next 2 years. As nice as MSL may appear, he is the wrong coach to when it comes to making the next step. He reached his Peter's Principle by going from dead last to 5-6th last. Beyond this point a system (not concepts) is required. Accountability is required (and that involved everyone, not just those who are easy to sit).

Argh... thta's just disappointing.
 
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Guess

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
1,037
845
Brossard, QC
Can we stop this? Since Slafkovski is on the PP we are in the top 10 for PP efficiency, while missing Dach and while Slafkovski will become better year after year.

+without Hutson.

Burrows has had no talent to play with.
I'm wondering this as well. What is the Habs pp efficiency before and after Monahan this season? I thought he was the catalyst behind our PP being good this season.
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
13,663
14,468
Habs have had no PP QB since Markov…. Hutson is here now to fill that role. The PP, even under Burrows will be just fine, in fact I’m expecting a top-10 PP next season
 

Habssince89

trolls to the IL
Sponsor
Apr 14, 2009
8,587
3,732
Vancouver, BC
wow

Gorton "We didn't come here to have fun, we came here to win"

other quotes:

"there is no place like this"
"The team showed us a lot and we will do everything we can to help them take the next step"

He was asked if they had determined if the team was ready now, his answer "Yes"

They will look at free agency and they will look at trades, he said, this is a huge summer for us.

Also he said the P word is no longer a taboo. They want playoff now.
Wow big news IMO

I thought they'd tiptoe with their language for one more season. But they have a point. The team's most important players took steps forward (in the case of Slaf, a leap forward), Our capspace is primed, Hutson looks to be a needle mover, and our goalie situation looks solidified. There's no reason to wallow in another tank season and become a buffalo or edmonton pre-mcD.

They may not make the playoffs next year, but making it the goal is important. At some point, they have to try and see how close they are. I suppose they also have players in mind, so we'll see, but it sure is exciting!
 

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