Proposal: Marner for B. Tkachuk

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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I’m sure this will be very polarizing, but I think it could make some sense. Straight swap of Mitch Marner for Brady Tkachuk. Disclaimer: I’m a Leafs fan.

Why for the Leafs?
Cap space. Pre-COVID, with the expectation of an ever-rising cap, it looked like we could keep all of Matthews/Marner/JT/Marner, and still just barely put a decent team around them. Now, I’m not so sure. With the cap likey fixed at $81.5 mil for a number of years, that means we’re paying ~$40.5 mil for 4 forwards, and need to fit everyone else into ~$41 mil. I don’t think we can field a cup contender this way - even if we deal Johnsson and Dermott, we’d only have ~$2.5 mil to find a partner for Rielly. We’d never deal Matthews, JT has a NMC, and Nylander’s AAV isn’t that high, so that leaves Marner as the top candidate.

Marner is much better than Tkachuk, but Tkachuk is way cheaper, and also brings some needed toughness. He’s on a super cheap rookie deal next year, then an RFA. Even if he makes ~$7.5 mil as an RFA, that’s still ~$3.5 mil less than Marner, which makes a big difference. That’s enough for us to afford a good partner for Rielly (~$6 mil) instead of a bargain basement one (~$2.5 mil). And next year, on Tkachuk’s final ELC year, our team could be legit stacked.

Why for the Sens?
The Sens have mountains of cap space, and what better way to leverage it than picking up a young, legit franchise forward? It’s a lot of extra cap eaten next year, on Tkachuk’s final ELC year, but once Tkachuk becomes an RFA, the difference is likely more like ~$3.5 mil. For a borderline superstar like Marner, and the Sens nowhere close to a cap crunch, that’s easily worth it. After the draft the Sens could be building around something like Marner/Byfield/Chabot/Drysdale, which obviously looks great. You almost never get the chance to trade for a young stud like Marner, this could take their core to the next level.

Also, Melnyk will love that Marner is cheap in real money. If dealt after his signing bonus is paid this offseason, that’s $30.3 mil of his $65.3 mil contract paid, with 5 of 6 years remaining. He averages just $7 mil per year for those remaining 5 years.
 
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ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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I'm convinced some TOR fans are allergic to acquiring a legit #2/3 RD.
A young, top pairing RHD partner for Rielly would certainly be an ideal return for someone like Marner or Nylander, but I'm not sure who it would be, in practice. Another approach is to trade someone like Marner for cheaper winger (not Marner level, but still a real good player), and use the cap space to go after an RHD via UFA or another trade. For example, Pietrangelo, Tanev, Hamonic and Vatanen are all UFA RHDs that we could go after, if we had more cap space.
 

Jerkbait

Registered User
Dec 12, 2019
4,101
814
I’m sure this will be very polarizing, but I think it could make some sense. Straight swap of Mitch Marner for Brady Tkachuk. Disclaimer: I’m a Leafs fan.

Why for the Leafs?
Cap space. Pre-COVID, with the expectation of an ever-rising cap, it looked like we could keep all of Matthews/Marner/JT/Marner, and still just barely put a decent team around them. Now, I’m not so sure. With the cap likey fixed at $81.5 mil for a number of years, that means we’re paying ~$40.5 mil for 4 forwards, and need to fit everyone else into ~$41 mil. I don’t think we can field a cup contender this way - even if we deal Johnsson and Dermott, we’d only have ~$2.5 mil to find a partner for Rielly. We’d never deal Matthews, JT has a NMC, and Nylander’s AAV isn’t that high, so that leaves Marner as the top candidate.

Marner is much better than Tkachuk, but Tkachuk is way cheaper, and also brings some needed toughness. He’s on a super cheap rookie deal next year, then an RFA. Even if he makes ~$7.5 mil as an RFA, that’s still ~$3.5 mil less than Marner, which makes a big difference. That’s enough for us to afford a good partner for Rielly (~$6 mil) instead of a bargain basement one (~$2.5 mil). And next year, on Tkachuk’s final ELC year, our team could be legit stacked.

Why for the Sens?
The Sens have mountains of cap space, and what better way to leverage it than picking up a young, legit franchise forward? It’s a lot of extra cap eaten next year, on Tkachuk’s final ELC year, but once Tkachuk becomes an RFA, the difference is likely more like ~$3.5 mil. For a borderline superstar like Marner, and the Sens nowhere close to a cap crunch, that’s easily worth it. After the draft the Sens could be building around something like Marner/Byfield/Chabot/Drysdale, which obviously looks great. You almost never get the chance to trade for a young stud like Marner, this could take their core to the next level.
Leafs say NO. Marner will retire a leaf
 
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TheImpatientPanther

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Jan 17, 2013
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A young, top pairing RHD partner for Rielly would certainly be an ideal return for someone like Marner or Nylander, but I'm not sure who it would be, in practice. Another approach is to trade someone like Marner for cheaper winger (not Marner level, but still a real good player), and use the cap space to go after an RHD via UFA or another trade. For example, Pietrangelo, Tanev, Hamonic and Vatanen are all UFA RHDs that we could go after, if we had more cap space.

Trading arguably your 2nd best player outside Rielly for the hopes of signing AP is very risky.
It makes for a wonderful story, hometown guy with Cup experience comes in to anchor the right side.
There's a sizable gap from AP to Tanev, Hamonic or Vatanen though.
Signing AP basically means Rielly is gone then, don't see a way you can keep AM, JT, WN, AP and MR and then dress a deep enough roster unless the majority of the prospects hit.

Pesce was the guy to go after when he was available, would have been a solid pairing with Rielly.
He nearly averaged 22 mins/game this year and a lot of it on the PK. Not overly physical but blocks shots, decent at takeaways and really great contract for a prime aged #3 RD.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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Conceptually I think this type of trade will happen during the flat cap era. Would Melnyk want an 11 million dollar player, even one as good as MM, especially when sending back little to no salary?
 

ponder

Registered User
Jul 11, 2007
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Vancouver
Trading arguably your 2nd best player outside Rielly for the hopes of signing AP is very risky.
It makes for a wonderful story, hometown guy with Cup experience comes in to anchor the right side.
There's a sizable gap from AP to Tanev, Hamonic or Vatanen though.
Signing AP basically means Rielly is gone then, don't see a way you can keep AM, JT, WN, AP and MR and then dress a deep enough roster unless the majority of the prospects hit.

Pesce was the guy to go after when he was available, would have been a solid pairing with Rielly.
He nearly averaged 22 mins/game this year and a lot of it on the PK. Not overly physical but blocks shots, decent at takeaways and really great contract for a prime aged #3 RD.
Marner is indeed arguably our 2nd best player, though 2nd after Matthews, not Rielly. It would be a HUGE deal to trade him, no doubt. Pre-COVID, no way I would deal Marner. Over the past 6 offseasons, the cap has gone up an average of $2.9 mil per year, had that continued we would have had just enough wiggle room to build around our big-4 forwards over the coming years. But if the cap is truly fixed at $81.5 mil for the next few years, looking at our cap table ... I'm not sure we can field a legit elite team while tying up so much $$$ in 4 forwards. Next year that's ~$2.9 mil less than expected, the year after ~$5.8 mil less, and the year after that ~$8.7 mil less, it really adds up, and guys like Andersen, Rielly, Hyman, Kapanen, Mikheyev and Sandin are all signed for 0-2 years after this one, and will all need raises.

Take a look at Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps , and try to imagine the teams we can build over the next ~3 years, while continuing to tie up $40.5 mil of $81.5 mil on 4 forwards, it's more than a little scary. This much money on 4 players is a touch scary, but it's much worse on 4 forwards, hard to build a balanced team under such tight cap constraints. If the cap is flat for the next 3+ seasons, it's a big deal for the Leafs.

We're certainly not dealing Matthews, and JT has a NMC, meaning he's likely not an option. If we do try to balance out our spending a bit, the only real options are Nylander and Marner, and Marner makes almost $4 mil more than Nylander, plus has much higher trade value.

I'm not sure Pesce was ever available, I think they always wanted to move Faulk. Agreed there's a big gap between AP and Tanev/Hamonic/Vatanen, but I think any of them would be a big get for us. If we could sign AP for say $9 mil/year, with this deal we could make that work next year, while Tkachuk is still on his ELC. If Tkachuk then got ~$7.5 mil as an RFA, we'd have to gut our depth a decent bit to make it work (guys like Dermott, Johnsson, Kerfoot, maybe some others all gone), but guys like Nick Robertson, Sandin and Liljegren would also be cheap impact players by then, softening the blow a lot. I can see it working out. And with someone like Tanev/Hamonic/Vatanen instead of AP, we could definitely make it work.
 
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Ouroboros

There is no armour against Fate
Feb 3, 2008
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Don't think the Senators would be able to access enough liquidity to pay Marner's colossal bonuses. Not in this economic environment.
 
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Duke16

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Apr 14, 2015
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Ontario
I understand that the money aspect very much exists and may stand in the way of a deal, but if you reference actual playing ability as the reason to say no from an OTT perspective, you are so out to lunch it's not even funny.

Leafs say no. They gave Marner that deal knowing full well they can build around it and the other big contracts. Flat cap doesn't affect that (greater implications for the $3M depth players)
 
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NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,745
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Ottawa, ON
It's an interesting deal OP, well done.

I'd consider it for sure. I think there's something to like from both sides.

I think the deal favors Ottawa in the near term, for sure.
 

Zonk

Registered User
Jul 2, 2012
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After Marner receives his signing bonus in the off-season, there will be $35 million left to pay on his contract. That's only $7 million a year for five years of Mitch Marner in his prime. The return should be much better than B. Tkachuk.
 
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Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
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He is. But you also know that Tkachuk is more built for playoff hockey than Marner is. That’s only why I’d rather Tkachuk.

He might be almost as good as his brother in the playoffs and match his whopping 0.3 playoff PPG.

Marner is the massively better player in both regular season and playoffs, it isn't particularly close regardless of how much Brady hits people. Short of this trade, he wouldn't see the playoffs before UFA anyway.

This would need to be Brady + 5th OA for Marner (after bonuses are paid) + Leafs 2021 1st to stop the phone from hanging up instantly.
 

MarkusKetterer

Shoulda got one game in
He might be almost as good as his brother in the playoffs and match his whopping 0.3 playoff PPG.

Marner is the massively better player in both regular season and playoffs, it isn't particularly close regardless of how much Brady hits people. Short of this trade, he wouldn't see the playoffs before UFA anyway.

This would need to be Brady + 5th OA for Marner (after bonuses are paid) + Leafs 2021 1st to stop the phone from hanging up instantly.

There is more to hockey than scoring. Even tho yes, you need to score more than the other team. But beating down the other team does help. Otherwise the Leafs biggest need (outside of RHD) wouldn’t be grit.

As far as your offer you mentioned, it’s actually not that bad. Assuming the Leafs 1st has no protection.
 

Tkachuckycheese

Oilers/Sens
Feb 2, 2016
831
796
I really think the Leafs are better off trading Matthews. They could trade him to Arizona and get a really good return for him. I'd have to have Christian Dvorak as part of the return he has 5 years left at 4,450.00. Reunite him with Marner on the 2nd line. They were amazing in London together. You have JT on the first line. I just see Marner as the heart and sole player for the Leafs. Then go get your RHD.
 

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