Value of: Marcus Johannson

[biturbo19]

On some level, i could see a deal around Johansson and Jannik Hansen making some sense. Canucks could use the little bit of extra offensive creativity of Johansson and can afford a little bit more cap space there, while getting a bit younger. Caps would be getting a pretty ideal middle-6 winger on a terrific deal.

But Hansen just brings so many other things to the table with his tenacity and honeybadgering, PK ability, RH shot, fit with the Sedins, etc. Canucks really don't need another softer/smaller player in their Top-9 right now.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Three possibilities related to MOJO:

1. Caps accept the arbitration whether it's 4.5 or 4.75 and just go in to the season with him.

2. If the Capitals move MOJO (which now has to be delayed until the arbitration has been resolved), I see it for the likes of a LW, i.e. 1. JVR, 2. Evander Kane, 3. Hartnell. An acquisition of JVR or Kane would most likely result in Burakovsky getting bumped to the third line with a JVR/Kane becoming the 2LW.

3. Caps move MOJO for picks/prospects. The only way I see them doing this is that both Burakovsky and Vrana show well, solidifying them at 2LW and 3LW.

Caps experience a significant injury in the forward ranks, then the holding on to MOJO also might be the better option due to his ability to play up and down the line but also as a possible trade piece to address the injury situation.

Caps no longer are in need of Hanzal.

 

[Stewie G]

No matter how many times you try to make this abomination happen, no other Caps fans and (very likely not management either) would do this trade.

I'd do that trade, for the exact reasons Hivemind listed. The window is now and goalie prospects, no matter how highly rated, are a crap shoot. Perhaps they can extract a minor piece back from Toronto, but I'd agree to it with nothing else added if it came down to it.

 

[Stewie G]

Three possibilities related to MOJO:

1. Caps accept the arbitration whether it's 4.5 or 4.75 and just go in to the season with him.

2. If the Capitals move MOJO (which now has to be delayed until the arbitration has been resolved), I see it for the likes of a LW, i.e. 1. JVR, 2. Evander Kane, 3. Hartnell. An acquisition of JVR or Kane would most likely result in Burakovsky getting bumped to the third line with a JVR/Kane becoming the 2LW.

3. Caps move MOJO for picks/prospects. The only way I see them doing this is that both Burakovsky and Vrana show well, solidifying them at 2LW and 3LW.

Caps experience a significant injury in the forward ranks, then the holding on to MOJO also might be the better option due to his ability to play up and down the line but also as a possible trade piece to address the injury situation.

Caps no longer are in need of Hanzal.

The bolded portion of your post has proven to be incorrect, and there is an example from last year (Taylor Beck to Toronto).

 

[BiPolar Caps]

The bolded portion of your post has proven to be incorrect, and there is an example from last year (Taylor Beck to Toronto).

Right you are, http://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2016/07/capology-101-arbitration-part-1.html, "Teams can trade players with pending arbitrations up until the hearing".

 

[StephenPeat]

I'd do that trade, for the exact reasons Hivemind listed. The window is now and goalie prospects, no matter how highly rated, are a crap shoot. Perhaps they can extract a minor piece back fromkoToronto, but I'd agree to it with nothing else added if it came down to it.

To me it comes down to this:

JVR
40gp 14G 15A 29P
82gp 27G 29A 56P
80gp 30G 31A 61P
40gp 18G 14A 32P
43gp 11G 13A 24P

JOHANSSON
74gp 17G 29A 46P
82gp 20G 27A 47P
80gp 8G 36A 44P
34gp 6G 16A 22P
80gp 14G 32A 46P

Sure, JVR reasonably averages 20-30G (around 8-10 more than Johansson). Johansson likely averages slightly more assists consistently. Johansson has also been remarkably more likely to be in the lineup.

These players are fairly similar. JVR isn't physical and is also not better defensively. JVR has been force-fed cherry offensive minutes in TOR because he is one of their Top 2 offensive threats.

Now consider Samsonov. At this point he has (at a minimum) 1st RD pick value [any assumed goalie guru evaluations aside]. I don't see the difference in Johansson and JVR as being worth a 1st and that's Samsonov's likely floor. If, on the other hand, Samsonov is more Vasilevskiy than Ryabchikov then adding him to Johansson would be as bad if not worse than Forsberg.

The Caps are not desperate for JVR and management likely doesn't have the same fanboy crush on him that some HF users do. It's fine to recognize his strengths but you also need to recognize his deficiencies and the risks associated with acquiring him. All things considered, I don't think Samsonov should be off limits to improve the team but JVR is not the right caliber of upgrade for me to even consider Top Prospects on top of roster players.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'd like for Edmonton to add him but don't see a deal to be made unless Washington was interested in Yakupov. And nobody on HF is, so I'd be surprised at that.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

I'd like for Edmonton to add him but don't see a deal to be made unless Washington was interested in Yakupov. And nobody on HF is, so I'd be surprised at that.

Any chance Eberle is moved after the Hall trade? On the previous page I suggested Johansson and Samsonov for Eberle at 50% retention.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Any chance Eberle is moved after the Hall trade? On the previous page I suggested Johansson and Samsonov for Eberle at 50% retention.

I don't see Eberle being moved for a forward and prospect, and I absolutely can't see us retaining on him. His salary is in line with other top line wingers. Maybe could have happened before UFA season opened if Chiarelli had a line on another d-man or something, but I don't see it happening now.

Our right side is pretty weak, and unless we want Yakupov (no thanks) or Pulujarvi (not yet, too soon) to play 1st line RW, trading Eberle really should only be considered if someone gives us another RD to play in our top 4. And I don't see that happening.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

I don't see Eberle being moved for a forward and prospect, and I absolutely can't see us retaining on him. His salary is in line with other top line wingers. Maybe could have happened before UFA season opened if Chiarelli had a line on another d-man or something, but I don't see it happening now.

Our right side is pretty weak, and unless we want Yakupov (no thanks) or Pulujarvi (not yet, too soon) to play 1st line RW, trading Eberle really should only be considered if someone gives us another RD to play in our top 4. And I don't see that happening.

I've got no issue with Eberle's salary, he'd just be a lot more valuable to the Caps at 3M.

What about Johansson, Orlov, and Washington's 2017 1st for Eberle at 50%?

Johansson can play all three forward positions, so he could take over at 1RW. Orlov is a left-handed shot but plays the right side.

 

[twabby]

I've got no issue with Eberle's salary, he'd just be a lot more valuable to the Caps at 3M.

What about Johansson, Orlov, and Washington's 2017 1st for Eberle at 50%?

Johansson can play all three forward positions, so he could take over at 1RW. Orlov is a left-handed shot but plays the right side.

Who plays defense for Washington if Orlov is traded?

 

[Kolzilla]

I've got no issue with Eberle's salary, he'd just be a lot more valuable to the Caps at 3M.

What about Johansson, Orlov, and Washington's 2017 1st for Eberle at 50%?

Johansson can play all three forward positions, so he could take over at 1RW. Orlov is a left-handed shot but plays the right side.

As much hate as Eberle gets, I think under the right circumstance he would be a great 1RW.

But is 1RW really a need for a us?

I would counter (and please be nice here):

To NYR: Orlov, Mojo.
To WSH: Kreider, Klein.

We don't create any holes, we get two players that I think would fit our system really well.

 

[Hivemind]

As much hate as Eberle gets, I think under the right circumstance he would be a great 1RW.

But is 1RW really a need for a us?

I would counter (and please be nice here):

To NYR: Orlov, Mojo.
To WSH: Kreider, Klein.

We don't create any holes, we get two players that I think would fit our system really well.

I don't think the Rangers don't make that trade, and it would put the Capitals very close to being over the salary cap. Klein makes $2.9M, meaning Kreider's RFA deal would have to come in at $5.1M to be compliant with a 22 man roster or ~$4.2M if they want to have room for an prospect to make the team without someone going on IR.

 

[Stewie G]

To me it comes down to this:

JVR
40gp 14G 15A 29P
82gp 27G 29A 56P
80gp 30G 31A 61P
40gp 18G 14A 32P
43gp 11G 13A 24P

JOHANSSON
74gp 17G 29A 46P
82gp 20G 27A 47P
80gp 8G 36A 44P
34gp 6G 16A 22P
80gp 14G 32A 46P

Sure, JVR reasonably averages 20-30G (around 8-10 more than Johansson). Johansson likely averages slightly more assists consistently. Johansson has also been remarkably more likely to be in the lineup.

These players are fairly similar. JVR isn't physical and is also not better defensively. JVR has been force-fed cherry offensive minutes in TOR because he is one of their Top 2 offensive threats.

Now consider Samsonov. At this point he has (at a minimum) 1st RD pick value [any assumed goalie guru evaluations aside]. I don't see the difference in Johansson and JVR as being worth a 1st and that's Samsonov's likely floor. If, on the other hand, Samsonov is more Vasilevskiy than Ryabchikov then adding him to Johansson would be as bad if not worse than Forsberg.

The Caps are not desperate for JVR and management likely doesn't have the same fanboy crush on him that some HF users do. It's fine to recognize his strengths but you also need to recognize his deficiencies and the risks associated with acquiring him. All things considered, I don't think Samsonov should be off limits to improve the team but JVR is not the right caliber of upgrade for me to even consider Top Prospects on top of roster players.

Very well reasoned, but if the Caps aren't interested in paying Mojo the amount that he wants (or that they think the arbitrator is going to set), and are determined to get a roster player back, this might be what it takes. If they can get a better player back, I'd be all for it, but it might come down to availability.

I'm usually pretty risk averse, but the time to strike is now, and if they have to lose a trade to increase their chances the next two years while JvR is on a below market deal, then I'd like to see them pull the trigger.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I've got no issue with Eberle's salary, he'd just be a lot more valuable to the Caps at 3M.

What about Johansson, Orlov, and Washington's 2017 1st for Eberle at 50%?

Johansson can play all three forward positions, so he could take over at 1RW. Orlov is a left-handed shot but plays the right side.

Eberle at 50% would net us a huge return elsewhere. And not a package. Plus we probably can't take all of that salary and still eat 50% of Eberle.

You're looking at the wrong type of player here, you aren't going to upgrade a player and dump salary in the same deal.

 

[Kolzilla]

I don't think the Rangers don't make that trade, and it would put the Capitals very close to being over the salary cap. Klein makes $2.9M, meaning Kreider's RFA deal would have to come in at $5.1M to be compliant with a 22 man roster or ~$4.2M if they want to have room for an prospect to make the team without someone going on IR.

Yes, 5.1+2.9=8.0, so similar numbers to Orlov and Mojo. Also, my guess is Kreider doesn't get as much as MJ90 in arbitration.

And I should've prefaced this with the situation Mojo gets 5 mil+ in arb, Krieder doesn't. I figured the potential of Orlov fills the value gap for NYR, though I'll let a rangers fan tell me if I'm way off. Maybe you don't even need to add in Orlov/Klein, maybe something small (think Oshie/Brouwer), which would be ideal for WSH.

 

[Hivemind]

Yes, 5.1+2.9=8.0, so similar numbers to Orlov and Mojo. Also, my guess is Kreider doesn't get as much as MJ90 in arbitration.

And I should've prefaced this with the situation Mojo gets 5 mil+ in arb, Krieder doesn't. I figured the potential of Orlov fills the value gap for NYR, though I'll let a rangers fan tell me if I'm way off. Maybe you don't even need to add in Orlov/Klein, maybe something small (think Oshie/Brouwer), which would be ideal for WSH.

Kreider is coming off of consecutive 20G+ 40P+ seasons. He's going to be right alongside Johansson in terms of what salary he gets.

I think (hope) Orlov comes in short of $2.9. Probably somewhere like $2.75M. That extra $150K will go a long way towards fitting in call-ups during the season.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd do a Mojo for Kreider swap....how much would the Caps have to sweeten the pot?

 

[trick9]

I'd do a Mojo for Kreider swap....how much would the Caps have to sweeten the pot?

Nothing.

 

[Kolzilla]

Kreider is coming off of consecutive 20G+ 40P+ seasons. He's going to be right alongside Johansson in terms of what salary he gets.

I think (hope) Orlov comes in short of $2.9. Probably somewhere like $2.75M. That extra $150K will go a long way towards fitting in call-ups during the season.

I don't really think 150k matters all that much TBH.

Edit: I do hope Orlov comes in below 3 mil as well, but I suppose we'll find out very shortly...(let's suppose it's 3.25 AAV, then does that change your thinking?)

But getting back on track to my main point, if Mojo has to be moved and we could turn him into Kreider, without losing Samsonov, I think that's a better choice than JVR, all things being equal. Of course, that would necessitate Kreider coming in cheaper AAV than Mojo. Maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't.