Proposal: Marco Rossi for Shane Pinto

[bert]

Trying to gauge what people think the value is on this. There’s been rumors from credible sources within the Wild that they would Move Rossi for a comparable young player with more size. I’m personally not interested in the move, but if they did it this is about what I’d be looking for. Who adds?

As someone that watched Rossi alot there is absolutely no way I do this as a Sens fan. Big two way centerman who is very good defensively that is a righty for a small lefty who cant beat goalies clean like Pinto.

value looks pretty even to me.

That being said, I think Ottawa pass on this for the same reasons MIN would go for it. So, unless Pinto ask for a trade then its a no from Ottawa.

The value is absolutely not even. No one wins with small centers that arent fast.

The only thing that Rossi is superior than Pinto is play making. Thats it. I dont think he scores more than Pinto either. Pinto is bigger, faster, better defensively, has a way better shot, better at faceoffs. And has scored more.... I dont see how this is remotely close.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Senators would pass, even though they got to see a lot of Rossi play, still a fan of Rossi though.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

What do Wild fans think of Rossi for Cole Perfetti Similar stats. Was just one draft pick order from each other. Which has more potential?

 

[Digitalbooya]

As someone that watched Rossi alot there is absolutely no way I do this as a Sens fan. Big two way centerman who is very good defensively that is a righty for a small lefty who cant beat goalies clean like Pinto.


The value is absolutely not even. No one wins with small centers that arent fast.

The only thing that Rossi is superior than Pinto is play making. Thats it. I dont think he scores more than Pinto either. Pinto is bigger, faster, better defensively, has a way better shot, better at faceoffs. And has scored more.... I dont see how this is remotely close.

In comparing their similar age 22 year old seasons:

Rossi 82GP 21g 19a 40pts -4 16:43 TOI (6 power play points)
Pinto 82GP 20g 15a 35pts -21 15:58 TOI (9 power play points)

Pinto's 23 year old season (82 game pace): 18g 36a 54pts 18:06 TOI

I think Rossi can definitely match Pinto's 54 point pace from this year for his 23 year old season (next year).

I think it's questionable to say that Pinto will score more than Rossi given the above. He scored 9 goals this year and 4 were on the power play (41 games, yes I know). Looking at the 5v5 per 60 stats:

5v5 G/60:
Rossi 0.95
Pinto 0.2

5v5 A/60:
Pinto 1.33
Rossi 0.79

5v5 pts/60
Rossi 1.73
Pinto 1.53

Questionable to say he is better defensively too with Rossi having a lower 5v5 CA/60, lower 5v5 SCA/60, lower 5v5 HDCA/60, lower 5v5 xGA/60, and lower 5v5 GA/60.

Perhaps you could bring some stats to refute the above.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

What do Wild fans think of Rossi for Cole Perfetti Similar stats. Was just one draft pick order from each other. Which has more potential?

No, wild aren't trading Rossi for a player whose smaller or same size and playing 4c because he's not good

 

[bert]

In comparing their similar age 22 year old seasons:

Rossi 82GP 21g 19a 40pts -4 16:43 TOI (6 power play points)
Pinto 82GP 20g 15a 35pts -21 15:58 TOI (9 power play points)

Pinto's 23 year old season (82 game pace): 18g 36a 54pts 18:06 TOI

I think Rossi can definitely match Pinto's 54 point pace from this year for his 23 year old season (next year).

I think it's questionable to say that Pinto will score more than Rossi given the above. He scored 9 goals this year and 4 were on the power play (41 games, yes I know). Looking at the 5v5 per 60 stats:

5v5 G/60:
Rossi 0.95
Pinto 0.2

5v5 A/60:
Pinto 1.33
Rossi 0.79

5v5 pts/60
Rossi 1.73
Pinto 1.53

Questionable to say he is better defensively too with Rossi having a lower 5v5 CA/60, lower 5v5 SCA/60, lower 5v5 HDCA/60, lower 5v5 xGA/60, and lower 5v5 GA/60.

Perhaps you could bring some stats to refute the above.

How many games did Rossi play with Kaprizov and Zuccarello? Historically we know what wins in the playoffs. I watch plenty of games of both these players I want the bigger player I want the right handed shot. Pinto will consistently outscore rossi from a goal stand point he has a much better shot. Points wise I think they are close. I like the bigger player who started hockey later as all signs point to having the longer development curve. Rossi has been fully developed physically for a long time, Pinto still growing into this body and the pro game. Despite being a year older I think Rossi is further along in his development curve.

 

[SpezDispenser]

lol hell no

 

[Digitalbooya]

How many games did Rossi play with Kaprizov and Zuccarello? Historically we know what wins in the playoffs. I watch plenty of games of both these players I want the bigger player I want the right handed shot. Pinto will consistently outscore rossi from a goal stand point he has a much better shot. Points wise I think they are close. I like the bigger player who started hockey later as all signs point to having the longer development curve. Rossi has been fully developed physically for a long time, Pinto still growing into this body and the pro game. Despite being a year older I think Rossi is further along in his development curve.

Rossi-Kaprizov had about 60 more minutes total time on ice than Pinto did with Tkachuk and about 70 more minutes 5v5 total time on ice. Which is amazing because Pinto only played 41 games. You sure you want to go the linemate route? Rossi had to drag around the lame duck Johansson and the turnover prone power play specialist Zuccarello for a huge chunk of his time on ice. That's after he had to start the year with offensive dynamos Foligno and Gaudreau. Please tell me how suppressed Pinto was by playing with Tkachuk and Batherson/Tarasenko. I'm dying to know.

"Pinto will consistently outscore Rossi from a goal stand point he has a much better shot." - Really? Cause Rossi had more goals this year than Pinto's 82 game pace and that's with Pinto playing over a minute more per game. Rossi also had more goals in his 22 year old season than Pinto did last year for his 22 year old old season. If Pinto's got a better shot, and maybe he does, doesn't that show that Rossi is more willing to go to the tough areas to score grimy goals than your 6'3" guy? I'll put your statement as a fact check false and hope that you'll stop repeating this statement as fact when it is not backed by the stats (so far).

How do you figure Rossi is further in his development curve? He was set back after the draft with Myocarditis and just showed last offseason that he has the ability to drastically improve. I think too much is being put into Rossi's height. He showed this year he belongs in the NHL. Trading him after this season would send the wrong message.

 

[Golden_Jet]

In comparing their similar age 22 year old seasons:

Rossi 82GP 21g 19a 40pts -4 16:43 TOI (6 power play points)
Pinto 82GP 20g 15a 35pts -21 15:58 TOI (9 power play points)

Pinto's 23 year old season (82 game pace): 18g 36a 54pts 18:06 TOI

I think Rossi can definitely match Pinto's 54 point pace from this year for his 23 year old season (next year).

I think it's questionable to say that Pinto will score more than Rossi given the above. He scored 9 goals this year and 4 were on the power play (41 games, yes I know). Looking at the 5v5 per 60 stats:

5v5 G/60:
Rossi 0.95
Pinto 0.2

5v5 A/60:
Pinto 1.33
Rossi 0.79

5v5 pts/60
Rossi 1.73
Pinto 1.53

Questionable to say he is better defensively too with Rossi having a lower 5v5 CA/60, lower 5v5 SCA/60, lower 5v5 HDCA/60, lower 5v5 xGA/60, and lower 5v5 GA/60.

Perhaps you could bring some stats to refute the above.

Pinto’s team -26 goal differential and he is a +9, for third on team
Rossi’s team is -12 differential and he is -4, for 23rd on team.

Here is their relative stats to teammates

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Wondercarrot]

Not the least bit interested in trading Pinto for Rossi.

 

[bert]

Rossi-Kaprizov had about 60 more minutes total time on ice than Pinto did with Tkachuk and about 70 more minutes 5v5 total time on ice. Which is amazing because Pinto only played 41 games. You sure you want to go the linemate route? Rossi had to drag around the lame duck Johansson and the turnover prone power play specialist Zuccarello for a huge chunk of his time on ice. That's after he had to start the year with offensive dynamos Foligno and Gaudreau. Please tell me how suppressed Pinto was by playing with Tkachuk and Batherson/Tarasenko. I'm dying to know.

"Pinto will consistently outscore Rossi from a goal stand point he has a much better shot." - Really? Cause Rossi had more goals this year than Pinto's 82 game pace and that's with Pinto playing over a minute more per game. Rossi also had more goals in his 22 year old season than Pinto did last year for his 22 year old old season. If Pinto's got a better shot, and maybe he does, doesn't that show that Rossi is more willing to go to the tough areas to score grimy goals than your 6'3" guy? I'll put your statement as a fact check false and hope that you'll stop repeating this statement as fact when it is not backed by the stats (so far).

How do you figure Rossi is further in his development curve? He was set back after the draft with Myocarditis and just showed last offseason that he has the ability to drastically improve. I think too much is being put into Rossi's height. He showed this year he belongs in the NHL. Trading him after this season would send the wrong message.

Hey bud if you're incapable of actually watching hockey and idenfying real traits, and skill sets just admit it. Anyone can go look at stats only. It's obvious Pinto has a better goal scoring skillset.

Same reason why Jack Quinn went ahead of Rossi in the draft it was a no brainer to anyone who followed and watched the 67s. More upside, better shot, more range, bigger etc. It's not just about stats it's projecting development. Rossi has been full grown since he was 17. Ofcourse you think too much is put into Rossi's size and height you're a homer Minnesota fan. But the reality is he doesn't have the same upside as Quinn or Pinto. The reality is bigger heavier players win more when it counts.

There's no chance on any level Ottawa makes this deal so you won't have to worry about it sending the wrong message. However You'd have to be hockey illiterate to not to want it if youre capable of taking off those rose colored glasses.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Hey bud if you're incapable of actually watching hockey and idenfying real traits, and skill sets just admit it. Anyone can go look at stats only. It's obvious Pinto has a better goal scoring skillset.

Same reason why Jack Quinn went ahead of Rossi in the draft it was a no brainer to anyone who followed and watched the 67s. More upside, better shot, more range, bigger etc. It's not just about stats it's projecting development. Rossi has been full grown since he was 17. Ofcourse you think too much is put into Rossi's size and height you're a homer Minnesota fan. But the reality is he doesn't have the same upside as Quinn or Pinto. The reality is bigger heavier players win more when it counts.

There's no chance on any level Ottawa makes this deal so you won't have to worry about it sending the wrong message. However You'd have to be hockey illiterate to not to want it if youre capable of taking off those rose colored glasses.

I ain't your bud, pal. The difference between me and you is I actually check the stats to make sure what I'm saying is correct. When does this superior goal scoring skillset translate to Pinto actually having more goals? I'm waiting oh great hockey knowledge sir.

It seems to me that you're basing your opinions of Rossi based on his time 4 years ago and not on the present day. Your argument is literally "he's bigger." Your words show that you have no semblance of Rossi as a player, yet you run your mouth like you watch every Minnesota game. It's laughable that you're sitting here insulting my hockey intelligence when your statements are so blatantly ignorant. Call me a homer. Say I have rose colored glass. Just comical.

It amazes me that going down the Senators lineup, and with how big every player is, that you guys don't just run over everyone. I'm just waiting for you to tell me Tkachuk has more upside than Kaprizov. I mean, he's bigger and heavier so he must be better so says the great hockey knowledge that is bert!

 

[SensFactor]

How about Pinto for Brodin

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Trying to gauge what people think the value is on this. There’s been rumors from credible sources within the Wild that they would Move Rossi for a comparable young player with more size. I’m personally not interested in the move, but if they did it this is about what I’d be looking for. Who adds?

Joe Veleno+ for Rossi

 

[Digitalbooya]

Joe Veleno+ for Rossi

I don’t see the incentive for Minnesota to do that.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Joe Veleno+ for Rossi

I hope not

 

[57special]

Joe Veleno+ for Rossi

WTF?

Rossi had a good, not great, rookie season. Has a better shot than many on here are crediting him for, and a decent two way game.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

WTF?

Rossi had a good, not great, rookie season. Has a better shot than many on here are crediting him for, and a decent two way game.

That’s where the plus comes in. A defensive prospect, an extra pick, etc.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I'd put my money on Pinto.

Lololol, because of the gambling, right?

 

[Digitalbooya]

That’s where the plus comes in. A defensive prospect, an extra pick, etc.

Change Veleno to Danielson.

 

[Marlowe Syn]

As a Flyers fan, this would hurt Torts but how about a Rossi for Foerster swap? Flyers are super high on him but similar age, similar rookie numbers. Flyers are deep on RW, thin on centers.

Just a thought.

As a fan of both teams... No. For either team really. Although I do think Rossi would very much become a Torts guy

 

[f7ben]

I ain't your bud, pal. The difference between me and you is I actually check the stats to make sure what I'm saying is correct. When does this superior goal scoring skillset translate to Pinto actually having more goals? I'm waiting oh great hockey knowledge sir.

It seems to me that you're basing your opinions of Rossi based on his time 4 years ago and not on the present day. Your argument is literally "he's bigger." Your words show that you have no semblance of Rossi as a player, yet you run your mouth like you watch every Minnesota game. It's laughable that you're sitting here insulting my hockey intelligence when your statements are so blatantly ignorant. Call me a homer. Say I have rose colored glass. Just comical.

It amazes me that going down the Senators lineup, and with how big every player is, that you guys don't just run over everyone. I'm just waiting for you to tell me Tkachuk has more upside than Kaprizov. I mean, he's bigger and heavier so he must be better so says the great hockey knowledge that is bert!

Absolute savagery , he threw the damn towel man ….quit pummeling him with a rake lol

 

[Joseph Nathan]

How about Pinto for Brodin

No from Minnesota

 

[stempniaksen]

As someone who loved Rossi pre-draft and was a little perplexed with the Pinto pick, absolutely not. There's isn't a + on the entire Wild roster that would make sense either. Pinto is exactly what the Senators need. They could use another 1 or 2 of him, not getting rid of the one they have.

This isn't even a slight on Rossi who I think is great and finally trending back up after a couple of rough development years, the Sens just really (really) need a RH Center with size and a two-way ability to go along with goal scoring. He's one of the most untouchable players on the roster and management love him (Dave Poulin is involved in the front office and Sens have months worth of tape of him talking Pinto up on local radio before he took the job with the Sens).

If Rossi becomes available he might make sense for the Sens, but not for anything that the Wild would want in return.

Right premise, wrong target.

 

[TeamRenzo]

I dont see a realistic scenario where Ottawa trades Pinto