Marcel Dionne vs Peter Stastny
- Thread starter Melrose Munch
- Start date
They are about the same, Dionne had 3 more elite regular seasons but, Stastny has twice the amount of playoff points.
I still find it funny how both get so underrated. You can't honestly look at me with a straight face and tell me Syll Apps is better than these two. I could care less about how many cups he has. The 1930s-mid40s was so watered down compared to the 1980s, which is the real golden era of hockey.
I still find it funny how both get so underrated. You can't honestly look at me with a straight face and tell me Syll Apps is better than these two. I could care less about how many cups he has. The 1930s-mid40s was so watered down compared to the 1980s, which is the real golden era of hockey.
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Dark Shadows
Registered User
By "Watered down" he basically means players scored less points, even though they would be the same or better if adjusted to era.
That's all it really boils down to for Ushvinder. All he does is insult older players in favor of newer players.
And Ush, Just stop with the "If Dionne played when he would have a cup". Dionne might indeed have a cup if he had played in the original 6 era, but he would still have been a complete playoff no show, and not a key player in the cup wins. He took it down a notch at crunch time when others took it up.
People fault his lousy effort playoff performance, not his lack of a cup. Few could win a cup with the supporting cast he had.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
No, I understand the adjusted era stats, I have seen the goals per game for each season. 1944-48 was actually the highest scoring era of all times according to the websites I've seen.
By watered down I mean lack of top 30 forwards of all times. The 1950s is when hockey really started to add true depth for elite players.
During the era that I called watered down, you had guys like sweeney schriner, bryan hextall, herbie cain and bill howley win the scoring titles. They were good players but it's bad for the lineage of the art ross trophy, there is no doubt they are among the weaker names to hold it.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
37-38 972/192 5.06
38-39 851/168 5.06
39-40 838/168 4.98
40-41 900/168 5.35
41-42 1047/168 6.23
42-43 1083/150 7.22
43-44 1225/150 8.17
44-45 1103/150 7.35
45-46 1003/150 6.68
46-47 1138/180 6.32
47-48 1053/180 5.85
48-49 978/180 5.43
42-45 was higher scoring(World War 2 consuming people). The rest of the years were league average after the war.
There were plenty of great forwards around before the war depleted some players, and other than those 3 years, your argument really has no basis. Syl Apps best years did not coincide with that 3 year period of scoring jumping because of the depleted ranks. His best years came before everyone left.
It still doesn't make him a more accomplished player. Also the fact that the Rocket wasn't able to win a scoring title during a time when people were serving in the war, questions his dominance. Here you have guys that are barely top 50 of all time winning art ross trohpies, but a top 5 forward of all time will consistently come up short. If Guy Lafluer played in that era, he would have made a clean sweep and win 6 straight scoring titles. Espo, Bobby Clarke, Dionne, Trotts and Bossy are a class above all those guys, including Max Bentley.
Stastny was a monster playoff performer (although take that with a grain of salt since I was a big Nords fan). His regular season peak isnt as high or as long, but keep in mind he missed 4 years where he would've been young and playing great, I think 80's era's players seemed to adapt to the NHL faster than they did in the 90s. And his playoff performances 105 playoff points in 93 playoff games. And that includes some years well past his expiry date with St Louis and New Jersey. As a Nord 64 playoff games, 24 goals 57 assists for 81 points. Incredible playoff numbers for any era.
Only one other player scored more points in the 1980's than Stastny...some guy named Gretzky.
Peter got my vote.
Plus he didn't come over and play in the NHL till he was 24! Dionnne began when he was 20. Give Stastny 4 more years at the start of his career when he was already considered one of the finest players outside the NHL at the time (he dominated at the Lake Placid Olympics) and his career totals would probably read something like this..
600 goals, 1100 assists, 1700 points
Peter got my vote.
Plus he didn't come over and play in the NHL till he was 24! Dionnne began when he was 20. Give Stastny 4 more years at the start of his career when he was already considered one of the finest players outside the NHL at the time (he dominated at the Lake Placid Olympics) and his career totals would probably read something like this..
600 goals, 1100 assists, 1700 points
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Dark Shadows
Registered User
You completely dodged the point. You claimed that there was no competition between the 30's/Mid 40's, and went off on a tangent about scoring in the 40's, when in fact there were tons of great players in that era except for a period of 3 years.
In the era your sweeping generalization encompassed, you had players such as........
Nels Stewart, Dit Clapper, Eddie Shore, Frank Boucher, Charlie Conacher, Roy Conacher, Busher Jackson, Aurel Joliat, Woody Dumart, Milt Schmidt, Doug Bentley, Max Bentley, Ebbie Goodfellow, Toe Blake, Bill Cowley, Gordie Drillon..........
Bryan Hextall, Bryan Hextall, Sweeney Schriner, .....those guys you mentioned are legends and HHOFers. Winning a scoring title back then was not unheard of for guys doing it 1 time. Like hockey today, there was more parity in the league and it was harder to stand out. Herb Cain was the only anomaly there, because he had a flash season where he scored almost 2 points per game.
None of the guys you mentioned would have been playing the style they played in that brutal physical defense first era, and none of them would have remotely come close to a clean sweep.
Wings4Life
Registered User
Stastny by a hair, both great players.
Here's hoping that Stastny Jr can light it up in today's NHL, like his old man used to.
Here's hoping that Stastny Jr can light it up in today's NHL, like his old man used to.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
Care to elaborate? I don't disagree completely, but I would like to hear an explanation as to why you would not even consider the possibility. Their regular season stats are very similar minus the fact that Stastny played 4 years of his prime in another country, and playoff play/effort is a blowout in Stastny's favor.
mcphee
Registered User
Some players get the tag of 'good bad team player'. It's probably unfair but I've always kind of mentally stored Dionned in that category. Maybe I saw more of Stastny, but imo, he had a greater impact on the games he played in.
Both guys could pile up stats, but Stastny could win you a game, while Dionne would amass points. If I was starting a team from scratch, I'd take Stastny, though Dionne's career totals speak for themselves. Stastny would be th eguy to build around though.
Both guys could pile up stats, but Stastny could win you a game, while Dionne would amass points. If I was starting a team from scratch, I'd take Stastny, though Dionne's career totals speak for themselves. Stastny would be th eguy to build around though.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Why was the 80's the golden age of hockey? If you think it was the scoring, look at the reason. The 80's were the worst time for overall defensive play in the history of the NHL. With the Eastern Europeans still having to defect to play in the NHL and the addition of the 4 WHA teams that came in playing shoot & run hockey, there were more floaters and career AHLers than at any other time. The 80's were when clutch & grab flourished because so few bothered skating back hard, that's how they played defense.
Tons of great players, or just very good players, theres a big difference. Eddie Shore's career was pretty much over by the time syll apps and rocket were playing, so i dont see why you even brought him up.
Sweeney Schriner, Bill Cowley and Bryan Hextall are not elite legends. Niether of them are going to be mentioned in the top 100. They are among the 3 weakest art ross trophy winners.
revolverjgw
Registered User
Well, actually, Schriner and Cowley both made the top Hockey News 100. Cowley almost made the top 50.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
I brought them up because your original post said "The 30's to the mid 40's was so watered down", when in fact, most of Shore's career+ several others I mentioned like Joliat, etc played then.
You might want to correct yourself and say mid 30's- mid 40's(But you would still be wrong)
No kidding? I can't see Cowley that high, but whatever floats their boat. I never really agree with a ton of what the Hockey news has to say. Their list was pretty ignorant in several points(Placing drastic overvalue on winning Stanley cups) Case in point, Messier and Hanri Richard's positions. Beliveau/Maurice Richard and Harvey over Hull and Shore, etc
Phil Parent
Sorel, 'fant d'chienne!
Hard to say because Stastny came to the NHL overrage while Dionne didn't.
Those years he spent in Czechoslovakia might be the difference between Stastny and Dionne. Those 2 or 3 years.
Those years he spent in Czechoslovakia might be the difference between Stastny and Dionne. Those 2 or 3 years.
