Manitoba Moose (Canucks) signing possible precendent for contract loophole

[Fan-in-Van]

I saw on TSN that both Doig and Keane signed pro-contracts with the Manitoba Moose (Vancouver's affiliate farm team). Right now, these players have no contracts with Vancouver themselves. My assumption is that both of these deals will be for more than $75,000 which is what Vancouver was offering Doig on the back half of a two-way deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Doig's contract was somewhere near the NHL minimum salary. Does this create a precedent that side steps the new CBA and salary cap framework?

If at any point in the season Vancouver feels that they would benefit from having one or both of these players up, then they would have to approach the Moose to negotiate a contract buy-out and then sign the player to a pro contract. Of course, any team could also approach Manitoba about buying out the contract, but I'm thinking that Vancouver might just have that inside edge.

Such a move would allow Vancouver to bring in a player from their farm team without clearing waivers (though they would have to clear prior to being sent back down). They also can compensate a player who they would otherwise have in that 22nd or 23rd roster spot outside of the cap.

I think this sets an interesting precedent. Who knows, perhaps each team's affiliate will have 4 or 5 "fringe" NHLers on their roster with salaries equal to the NHL minimum. However, their salary only goes against the cap if there is a deal that is renogiated with the big club.

From a fan of the Canucks, I would have to applaud them for their creativity. From a fan of the game, I am almost inclined to say, "Here we go again."

Thoughts?

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[Steve L*]

I assume that the rules say they must both clear waivers on the way up.

 

[cc]

I assume that the rules say they must both clear waivers on the way up.

I don't know. it may be considered a UFA signing so it would bypass waivers

 

[rival]

I'm interested to get an answer on this as well and something to factor in here is that both Keane and Doig's deals are 25 game tryout contracts. Are they free to sign as normal UFA's once those "tryouts" are finished?

 

[Douggy]

I don't know. it may be considered a UFA signing so it would bypass waivers

I agree.

But the player is a UFA. He is not bound to Vancouver at all and they aren't paying his salary.

This is not a loophole.

 

[cc]

I agree.

But the player is a UFA. He is not bound to Vancouver at all and they aren't paying his salary.

This is not a loophole.

true, but the Canucks can actually work with the Moose seeing that they are the affiliate team. It looks like a quasi loophole to me.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

This was true in the old CBA, I guess it's still true. It's not much of a loophole if the buyout of the AHL contract counts against the cap, but I don't think it does.

 

[Steve L*]

I don't know. it may be considered a UFA signing so it would bypass waivers

Noone has read the CBA so there may be a clause stating that any player signed from the farm team has to pass through waivers before being called up.

I dont know either way but it could be there.

 

[bure94]

I'm sure they'll have to clear waivers.

Keane only signed because he's a Winnipeg resident. I wouldn't be surprised if he was 'sore' for most away games and stayed in the peg.

Doig, well, Doig just sucks.

 

[cc]

I'm sure they'll have to clear waivers.

Keane only signed because he's a Winnipeg resident. I wouldn't be surprised if he was 'sore' for most away games and stayed in the peg.

Doig, well, Doig just sucks.

I see no reason why UFAs have to clear waivers to be signed. Canucks would not be calling them up... they would just be signing them after the Moose buys out their contract.

 

[Resolute]

true, but the Canucks can actually work with the Moose seeing that they are the affiliate team. It looks like a quasi loophole to me.

While the Canucks can work with the Moose, they have no rights to these players. It's easy to call this a loophole, but in reality, it is no more a loophole than any unrestricted free agent stating a preference for what teams he is or is not willing to negotiate with.

These guys are not going to say no if another NHL team comes calling, nor will the Moose, because holding a player back from the NHL would drop Winnipeg to about dead last in the list of places a pro hockey player would be willing to sign.

 

[cc]

While the Canucks can work with the Moose, they have no rights to these players. It's easy to call this a loophole, but in reality, it is no more a loophole than any unrestricted free agent stating a preference for what teams he is or is not willing to negotiate with.

These guys are not going to say no if another NHL team comes calling, nor will the Moose, because holding a player back from the NHL would drop Winnipeg to about dead last in the list of places a pro hockey player would be willing to sign.

yes but, it's still up to the player as UFAs whether they would like to go to a team or not. If another team wanted him, it wouldn't make a difference if Doig didn't want to go there. On Waivers, they aren't given a choice. You go when you are picked up.

Hypothetically, if Doig worked out some kind of arrangement that he would sign with the Moose now and then at a later date, (when injuries occur) he can sign with the Canucks. It would be purely his choice. Of course, he can just as easily decide to sign with another team.

 

[NFITO]

The rule in the old CBA was that if a UFA player signs after the start of the season, they would still have to clear waivers to play that season.

So if this rule stays in this CBA (and not sure why it wouldn't), even if the canucks sign Doig, for example, half way into the season, he would have to clear waivers to play for the team.

 

[Hawker14]

this is why it would be so nice for fans to be able to see the cba.

can the nhl really not afford to pay someone $ 15/hr for a couple weeks to type out the cba and put in on the web ?

 

[Fan-in-Van]

The rule in the old CBA was that if a UFA player signs after the start of the season, they would still have to clear waivers to play that season.

So if this rule stays in this CBA (and not sure why it wouldn't), even if the canucks sign Doig, for example, half way into the season, he would have to clear waivers to play for the team.

Good point. I'd forgotten about that rule. I just hope we have a chance to see the document once and for all so a lot of these ponderances could be put aside.

In any case, it gives Vancouver a short time to see if he can play (while learning the same system taught back in the bigs) and potentially take over the spot from Baumgartner.

 

[kdb209]

The rule in the old CBA was that if a UFA player signs after the start of the season, they would still have to clear waivers to play that season.

So if this rule stays in this CBA (and not sure why it wouldn't), even if the canucks sign Doig, for example, half way into the season, he would have to clear waivers to play for the team.

Actually not. Under the old CBA, if a UFA was signed after the start of the season (actually after the waiver draft), the team had to either expose the newly signed player to waivers OR any other player who was on the protected list for the waiver draft.

13.21.
a. In the event a Club signs a free agent, who is not subject to compensation or right of first refusal, between the termination of the Waiver Draft and December 1, and provided such player would have been eligible for claim in the Waiver Draft had he been signed at the time of such draft, the signing Club shall place on waivers either such player or another player from its final Waiver Draft Protected List.

This was basically done to prevent teams from circumventing the waiver draft by waiting to sign UFAs. This is now a moot point, since they have abolished the Waiver Draft.

IIRC, the only case where a UFA had to clear waivers during the season was a player who played one or more games in an overseas league after the start of the NHL Regular Season.

 

[GKJ]

I assume that the rules say they must both clear waivers on the way up.

I don't think that's the case, but if they both signed with the Manitoba Moose, the Canucks would have to purchase their contracts

 

[Jumptheshark]

I assume that the rules say they must both clear waivers on the way up.

AHL is a pro-league and the new CBA still says that any NHL team that tries to sign a player has to clear waivers if he has played in a pro-league

 

[Resolute]

I wonder if the rule that bans free agents who do not sign by Dec 01 from playing the year would come into play here? I would think it is meant for RFA's only, however.

 

[Steve L*]

AHL is a pro-league and the new CBA still says that any NHL team that tries to sign a player has to clear waivers if he has played in a pro-league

I knew they had to clear waivers if they came from Europe but not NA.

That seems to clear that up then.