Managerial Thread - 23/24 Season - Lolverpool

[JeffreyLFC]

I don't think they're really close. Klopp has won a ton. Xabi is only getting started. Maybe with a Europa cup to his name, it's a bit more of a discussion, but I don't really know.

I think whomever they get is not what Klopp is when they walked in the door.

It was more of the fact that Klopp was the last manager to beat Bayern for the title.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Official: Cleverley Confirmed As Permanent Head Coach

Watford FC are delighted to confirm the permanent appointment of Tom Cleverley as the Hornets’ Head Coach.

www.watfordfc.com

Watford FC is delighted to confirm the permanent appointment of Tom Cleverley as the Hornets’ Head Coach.

Since taking the role on an interim basis last month, the 34-year-old has guided the team through a run of seven Sky Bet Championship fixtures – five of which against teams in the league’s top seven.

The Hornets have lost just once during that period, keeping four clean sheets on the way to five draws and one win.

Having retired from playing through injury last summer, Cleverley made his first move into coaching with the Watford FC Academy in July, guiding the Under-18s to second place in the Professional Development League table – as well as two cup semi-finals – prior to taking up the first-team Interim Head Coach position in March.

jesus christ this makes me feel f***ing ancient

 

[Ceremony]

You know, I think a big reason no one wants him is because of this, at least on a subliminal level. Too many fans going to have to delete tweets.

It's actually a little known regulation in the Barclays that all the top franchises need to have a bald fraud for a manager at some point. It's a shame for Liverpool that their turn comes at such a crucial time, but fair's fair.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

It's actually a little known regulation in the Barclays that all the top franchises need to have a bald fraud for a manager at some point. It's a shame for Liverpool that their turn comes at such a crucial time, but fair's fair.

our bald fraud won us a UCL in 2012, rocked pretty hard

 

[spintheblackcircle]

jesus christ this makes me feel f***ing ancient

When I saw the news I thought, "He's done playing?"

 

[Chimaera]

I'm not trying to beat up on Xabi, as I clearly would have been happy with the appointment, but there's a lot of revisionism going on with him.

Yes, he's done great things with Leverkusen. He seems like he has all the tools to be a really great manager at a higher level. He's a former Liverpool player who likes the city, the supporters generally have favorable opinions of, and probably more importantly understands what the club/city ethos is. But I think there are some clear things that have to be strikes against him.
For me the following issues I have are

1. No matter what, at some point, he's always going to look to the Real job. Maybe that's part of everyone's mindset. Maybe it's part of who they get, but I'm not a fan of it. A manager isn't chained to a job forever... but I don't want to feel like as long as he would have been here, a month or so of bad form for Madrid and we might have to brace ourselves for a guy jumping ship.
2. His European experience is a question mark for me. Yeah, he's doing ok here, but that's still going to be there
3. His experience in general isn't deep. Has he even struggled a bit? Can he come walk into a room with players who have won a lot, played for a legend and handle it?
4. Tactically, I don't know if what is here matches what Xabi wants to do. Sure, new managers get their players. I think some of the players here could fit what he wants to do. But does it need to be 2-3 seasons of change to get there?
5. How much of success is hitting the right notes, but also seeing rivals take steps back? How much of it is his managing? How much of it is a club that wasn't that bad... and players who are probably not THAT good. Some of the off the pitch transfers have to get a lot of credit as well.

He still would likely be my first choice, all things considered. But there were warts to the appointment that were not there at all with Klopp. Note, many, many of these are even more applicable to others.

It's actually a little known regulation in the Barclays that all the top franchises need to have a bald fraud for a manager at some point. It's a shame for Liverpool that their turn comes at such a crucial time, but fair's fair.

I think there's a quota system in the league.

Might have to pay an import tax. Or one up the road get replaced with Southgate. Or Moyes. I hear he's gonna be available.

 

[Savant]

It's actually a little known regulation in the Barclays that all the top franchises need to have a bald fraud for a manager at some point. It's a shame for Liverpool that their turn comes at such a crucial time, but fair's fair.

Bald solidarity!

(joke warning) Maybe the refs will treat us better with a fellow bald on the sidelines

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Bald solidarity!

Here's to the balds! (yes, my cat watches over me when I poop).

 

[Savant]

Here's to the balds! (yes, my cat watches over me when I poop).

I mean I also do my best HF posting while my cat watches me poop. Maybe we aren’t too different

 

[cgf]

I'm not trying to beat up on Xabi, as I clearly would have been happy with the appointment, but there's a lot of revisionism going on with him.

Yes, he's done great things with Leverkusen. He seems like he has all the tools to be a really great manager at a higher level. He's a former Liverpool player who likes the city, the supporters generally have favorable opinions of, and probably more importantly understands what the club/city ethos is. But I think there are some clear things that have to be strikes against him.
For me the following issues I have are

1. No matter what, at some point, he's always going to look to the Real job. Maybe that's part of everyone's mindset. Maybe it's part of who they get, but I'm not a fan of it. A manager isn't chained to a job forever... but I don't want to feel like as long as he would have been here, a month or so of bad form for Madrid and we might have to brace ourselves for a guy jumping ship.
2. His European experience is a question mark for me. Yeah, he's doing ok here, but that's still going to be there
3. His experience in general isn't deep. Has he even struggled a bit? Can he come walk into a room with players who have won a lot, played for a legend and handle it?
4. Tactically, I don't know if what is here matches what Xabi wants to do. Sure, new managers get their players. I think some of the players here could fit what he wants to do. But does it need to be 2-3 seasons of change to get there?
5. How much of success is hitting the right notes, but also seeing rivals take steps back? How much of it is his managing? How much of it is a club that wasn't that bad... and players who are probably not THAT good. Some of the off the pitch transfers have to get a lot of credit as well.

He still would likely be my first choice, all things considered. But there were warts to the appointment that were not there at all with Klopp. Note, many, many of these are even more applicable to others.


I think there's a quota system in the league.

Might have to pay an import tax. Or one up the road get replaced with Southgate. Or Moyes. I hear he's gonna be available.

Experience is what it is but I dunno about the other concerns. There may be some revisionism going on wrt Xabi, but there's also some going on wrt Kloppo in your post.


Xabi staying with Leverkusen shows that he's not just going to abandon commitments at the first opportunity. Yes he may have his eye on that Madrid job in a way Klopp never did, but if Xabi did commit for 2-3 years (or more) at Liverpool, you'd probably have him for those 2-3 years (or more).


And he's already shown more tactical flexibility than Klopp did in all his years with Mainz & Dortmund. When Xabi took over that team had 4 really good CBs, strong FBs, a number of good wingers, an injured Schick & Wirtz, and little in the midfield.

So he landed on a formation that let him use as much of his depth where he had it, while going light in the areas that the roster was lacking. They generally dominate the ball and exhaust teams with their rapid movement of the ball & press, but they've been very good sitting deep and absorbing pressure when they'd had to, in a way that Dortmund never was under Klopp.

Kloppo only played one way, heavy metal football, and always out of a 4-2-3-1 before leaving the BuLi. Xabi has shifted shapes to find the right one for his squad and Leverkusen excel at playing in multiple ways.

 

[Chimaera]

Experience is what it is but I dunno about the other concerns. There may be some revisionism going on wrt Xabi, but there's also some going on wrt Kloppo in your post.


Xabi staying with Leverkusen shows that he's not just going to abandon commitments at the first opportunity. Yes he may have his eye on that Madrid job in a way Klopp never did, but if Xabi did commit for 2-3 years (or more) at Liverpool, you'd probably have him for those 2-3 years (or more).


And he's already shown more tactical flexibility than Klopp did in all his years with Mainz & Dortmund. When Xabi took over that team had 4 really good CBs, strong FBs, a number of good wingers, an injured Schick & Wirtz, and little in the midfield.

So he landed on a formation that let him use as much of his depth where he had it, while going light in the areas that the roster was lacking. They generally dominate the ball and exhaust teams with their rapid movement of the ball & press, but they've been very good sitting deep and absorbing pressure when they'd had to, in a way that Dortmund never was under Klopp.

Kloppo only played one way, heavy metal football, and always out of a 4-2-3-1 before leaving the BuLi. Xabi has shifted shapes to find the right one for his squad and Leverkusen excel at playing in multiple ways.

Staying is a good sign he won't abandon. But then again, he's not really turning down the Madrid job now, so we don't really know. I get the 2-3 year commitment, but honestly, for me, I want a guy who is going to likely be here for longer. I know manager churn is a thing and they likely won't get it right, but I would hope 2-3 seasons would not be the result.

As for Klopp / Xabi tactical flexibility, I think my argument in that sense is less about whether Klopp was or wasn't, but in thinking that this squad, as presently constituted might not fit what he wants to do. We can debate how close the squad is or isn't, but I would prefer not to have a 2-3 season rebuild (especially considering what you said with maybe a 2-3 year or so time here) or even a full overhaul. From what I've read, and admittedly, it's not a ton, it seems he has ways he wants to play. That's certainly fine and I think he can tactically change some as many managers do, but I think from presently constituted, he might not be fit with some of the personnel that's here. That's more my suggestion, I would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[S E P H]

Is Slot any good?

Also, lol at Xavi and Barca. I am very happy he's staying because I can read and hear more about his rants!

 

[Chimaera]

I don't know honestly if Slot is any good. I can't say I've watched more than a few matches. From what I read and from cursory looks at what some of the supporters of clubs he has managed say, it seems he's good at developing young players, good at working on a tight budget (including selling players often and getting in new ones), admires Pep (basically every manager seems to?) kinda likes a 4-2-3-1, with 2 pivots, high line, high press. Wants to manage the physical aspects of players... teams are more fit than others, usually leading to late surges.

Has ambition, but knows what he wants in rejecting Spurs last time. Feyenoord supporters will be sad to see him go, but a lot think there's ample credit to be given to the off field teams.

 

[Savant]

Is Slot any good?

Also, lol at Xavi and Barca. I am very happy he's staying because I can read and hear more about his rants!

I mean he tried to fight Diego Simeone during a friendly. So that’s nice

 

[luiginb]

admires Pep (basically every manager seems to?)

Translation for old timers: admires Cruyff

Translation for REALLY old timers: admires Stefan Kovacs

 

[Savant]

So, that’s pretty definitive from Slot

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I mean he tried to fight Diego Simeone during a friendly. So that’s nice

He has serious beef with Mou too.

 

[Savant]

He has serious beef with Mou too.

He’s not fond of ETH either.

 

[luiginb]

Netherlands doesn't have flights to Turkey or?

 

[Epictetus]

I know nothing about the guy other than he's bald, coming from the Dutch league, and opts for tracksuits instead of suits or the fashion of Pep and Arteta.

The pivot from Amorim to Slot (or maybe Slot was always the target) is interesting though.

 

[Savant]

I know nothing about the guy other than he's bald, coming from the Dutch league, and opts for tracksuits instead of suits or the fashion of Pep and Arteta.

The pivot from Amorim to Slot (or maybe Slot was always the target) is interesting though.

I mean we got rolled over by a manager in a track suit on Wednesday. I don’t think we know if this was a pivot or not. Slot is the only guy that LFC have gotten to the negotiation stage with; anyone besides Alonso is tied for second choice. There’s no reason to assume this guy is going to be a failure and there is no reason to assume this guy is going to be a success. Just have to trust Edwards knows what he is doing.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

It sounds like West Ham pivoted to Lopetegui, which, meh.

But I wonder what the Slot stuff means for Amorim. Does he want to leave badly enough and is the West Ham job attractive enough to make the switch. I also saw West Ham were put off by his €15M release clause, so who knows.

 

[Chimaera]

He flew to London to have the discussions. So he was at least interested.

I think for Liverpool, they want a manager who is more partner to what they want to do off the pitch, analytics, performance and the whole deal. I'm not saying Amorim is or isn't, but I think that's a red line for them that they have to have. Slot clearly is willing and seems to embrace it (all I know from the 2-3 in depth training articles I've read... so clearly, never wrong), so I think that might have been the kicker.

I don't know if I would want the West Ham job unless they broke the bank for me. He won't end up with CL, the ceiling for that club is only so high, and it's going to get increasingly tough to continue to improve. I would not be shocked if his people said he wasn't really interested in succeeding Klopp, or at least wanted to get in some talks with others, but his choice to the EPL likely has to be pragmatic.

 

[maclean]

Maybe I'm delusional but I think that West Ham job could be very attractive. They have a lot of potential in that team, just look what Emery has done with Villa

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Maybe I'm delusional but I think that West Ham job could be very attractive. They have a lot of potential in that team, just look what Emery has done with Villa

They have money, and have shown a willingness to spend it, but the squad needs a lot of work. I think Steidten is a real plus with what the team he constructed at Leverkusen proving, though.

The problem is and will continue to be David Sullivan and how he operates.