Management Thread: Ignorance is Bliss Edition.

[Jack Burton]

Over 1000 posts in the last one so please continue here.

Click to read more...

 

[geebaan]

I don’t want to continue. I want the nightmare of this management team with no direction and no plan to get the f*** out.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Temperature is getting warmer,
Days are getting longer,
Sunshine is beaming down on me...

And the team is crashing out of the playoff race with a GM that refuses to sell.

We know that spring is here.

 

[y2kcanucks]

He’s going to wait until deadline day and then “run out of time” again isn’t he? Either that, or he’ll trade one guy for a 20-22 year old prospect with 4th line potential because he’s allergic to draft picks.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Temperature is getting warmer,
Days are getting longer,
Sunshine is beaming down on me...

And the team is crashing out of the playoff race with a GM that refuses to sell.

We know that spring is here.

I think that's a bit premature. He said they were talking to other GM's putting plans in place.

He probably doesn't want to let go of hope, but I do think they are doing due diligence on what teams could be interested in who.

Still weeks away. Even if you don't believe this^. Should we be expecting a trade right away?

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

(Bringing this over)

Youre accusing people of straw manning when your comparison with AV is a straw man.

Your point that coaches don’t have control on results is fine I just think there’s more to it than that. They control processes. The results might not change but coaches change how players play. How they’re deplored. A lot changes for teams with coaching changes.

It wasn't even necessarily a comparison, more so a personal anecdote: (If I had omitted the AV part entirely the point would still be there)

But because of my previous desire for AV to go after the 2012 series, then seeing the coaching jobs we had after that... I've grown to think people overvalue the direct impact of the coach.

I personally don't think its Green's fault, but my mind isn't totally made up on his future.

Maybe there will be better options. I think I said my position was ideally to bring in a new GM, & let him decide. I'd go with that.

 

[VanJack]

I know Green still has his supporters, but the fact is the Canucks regular season record over the past three seasons really hasn't been nearly good enough.

And the areas that needed improvement, still haven't been resolved. Team defense is a shambles; they give up far too many quality scoring chances and zone time; and discipline is a problem with the number of penalties they take.

How much of this is the coaches' fault, and how much of it is roster construction, is a 'chicken and egg' debate. But Green simply hasn't won enough to keep his job.

 

[Ozone]

Last time I looked, this was a management thread - but still good convo's...

I suggest we cut the poison off at the head, then worry about the rest.

I've always felt a new GM should choose his coach; and have a bit of time to evaluate the rest.

BTW: Roster Construction is everything.

BTWW: New, competent, rational, owners - without a shady history and assorted past - is truly cutting off the head of this poisoned problem.

 

[Ozone]

edit

 

[polloqpiu]

Benning doing due diligence hahaha

 

[orcatown]

Temperature is getting warmer,
Days are getting longer,
Sunshine is beaming down on me...

And the team is crashing out of the playoff race with a GM that refuses to sell.

We know that spring is here.

And a bitter Canuck winter will surely follow

 

[rypper]

I think that's a bit premature. He said they were talking to other GM's putting plans in place.

He probably doesn't want to let go of hope, but I do think they are doing due diligence on what teams could be interested in who.

Still weeks away. Even if you don't believe this^. Should we be expecting a trade right away?

No offense, but I think given Jim's track record of selling at the trade deadline -- it's really not. Plus given the special circumstances of this season, trading within Canada vs the US and quarantine rules, the sooner a trade is made the better.

Jim does a lot of talking every year, without a lot of action. I'm going to set the bar really low and expect him to complete one trade this season -- before he runs out of time.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I mean this with 'Hockey Love'...

Are you always this optimistic - and are you prone to influential hot topics and 'news-worthy' people?

Hockey Love - ...I had a joke, but not appropriate here..

Point being: Never assume those higher up are right, and find your path through research and constant learning, limiting one's ability to be influenced.
Or something like that - I read it on a bathroom wall, while pooping, without TP to end my endevour...

Note to Self: Bring a backup sock...

C'mon Man! Find the light!

No offense, but I think given Jim's track record of selling at the trade deadline -- it's really not. Plus given the special circumstances of this season, trading within Canada vs the US and quarantine rules, the sooner a trade is made the better.

Jim does a lot of talking every year, without a lot of action. I'm going to set the bar really low and expect him to complete one trade this season -- before he runs out of time.

I just think some of the comments made in the presser were overblown, likely based on the fear rypper just stated.

He said they were preparing options for the deadline - that's just the fact of what was said. I used the word "premature" because I'm not ruling out they'll do something people don't like, but its still so far out to know if there are even specific offers on the table, what the exact interest is, exc. Nevermind expecting a trade tomorrow.

Surely we aren't the only team that (should be) selling, and no deals have been made yet anywhere. If not having made a deal yet is the complaint it's not only Benning. If the complaint is just a fear they'll mess up again based on the past (I think it is) then fair enough.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

I put a big piece of the blame on Green for how badly the team has managed the puck and defended.

They tried to lean into the skill game that Hughes and Pettersson bring but outside of 4 or 5 top guys the team doesn't have the horses for that. The result was catastrophic to this season.

After going through Willie D and Green I'm ready for a veteran coach that can run a system.

 

[4Twenty]

I put a big piece of the blame on Green for how badly the team has managed the puck and defended.

They tried to lean into the skill game that Hughes and Pettersson bring but outside of 4 or 5 top guys the team doesn't have the horses for that. The result was catastrophic to this season.

After going through Willie D and Green I'm ready for a veteran coach that can run a system.

To be fair Desjardind had a recognizable system for team D, breakouts and neutral zone. He failed with his 1-2-3-4 line deployment.

Green doesn’t make the bozo line deployment mistakes but his system is basically “go play pond hockey”.


@Sergei Shirokov you catch the flames go from loosey goosey to stingy as heck by bringing Sutter back?
That’s what good coaching does.

 

[Love]

Me being optimistic:

Benning and Green last the rest of the season. We end up with a top 10 pick and trade Pearson for a draft pick at the deadline.

In the summer, Benning and Green are both fired. CBJ also fires Jarmo Kekalainen because things are getting stale with him in Columbus and we scoop him up ASAP. Then Jarmo hires Gerard Gallant and we finally have some adequate hockey brains running the show in Vancouver.

Then I wake up.

 

[JAK]

To everyone hating on Green, how would you feel if your boss gives you no certainty if you are still going to be around in a few months?

How would you feel if your boss asked you to take less money just a few months before during the bubble?

And since this year was going to be a wash regardless, it wouldn't be a bad year to let the players learn it the hard way that playing the right way is important.

You can only teach so much, people have to fail on their own to realize what they need to do.

 

[JAK]

Me being optimistic:

Benning and Green last the rest of the season. We end up with a top 10 pick and trade Pearson for a draft pick at the deadline.

In the summer, Benning and Green are both fired. CBJ also fires Jarmo Kekalainen because things are getting stale with him in Columbus and we scoop him up ASAP. Then Jarmo hires Gerard Gallant and we finally have some adequate hockey brains running the show in Vancouver.

Then I wake up.

You want the GM who cannot retain star players, and trades Anderson for Domi? PLD for Laine?

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Me being optimistic: Benning and Green last the rest of the season. We end up with a top 10 pick and trade Pearson for a draft pick at the deadline.In the summer, Benning and Green are both fired. CBJ also fires Jarmo Kekalainen because things are getting stale with him in Columbus and we scoop him up ASAP. .

Some Fans still are not really getting it. It doesn't matter if Benning is fired and Green finds Greener pastors. It is the guy who is tweeting erratically after each wins in a 0.400 winning season, who needs an intervention. The operational decisions in this Organization are made by ownership, all the past and future decisions will be made by ownership. Losses are ownerships losses, endorsement are ownership endorsing itself. The chance that ownership will chastise ownership and effectively fire itself are remote. All the evidence points to these conclusions and people should brace themselves for future episodes of irrationality and I expect sooner rather than later.

 

[BerSTUzzi]

You want the GM who cannot retain star players, and trades Anderson for Domi? PLD for Laine?

Most of the star player issues have to do with Columbus the city and not the franchise. Also, there is a huge group of people that love Torts but most players love or hate him. If they had a likeable coach, was a city people enjoyed and stars were running for the hills I'd be more concerned.

Nash was there for a long time.

 

[Love]

You want the GM who cannot retain star players, and trades Anderson for Domi? PLD for Laine?

Yes I want the GM whos had to deal with star players demanding out on a yearly basis and STILL having a competitive team. I want a GM who doesnt give Sergei Bobrovsky $10 million per year. I want a GM who drafts PLD over Puljujarvi even though 95% of hockey experts disagree. I want a GM who trades Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones. I want a GM who drafts guys like Oliver Bjorkstrand in the 3rd round.

Jarmo has one of the most impressive GM records of the last 7 years. He drafts well, trades extremely well, and doesnt sign stupid contracts. He does more with less. His teams almost always over achieve while Benning's teams perennially underachieve.

Jarmo doesnt sign losers like Loui Eriksson, Brandon Sutter, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel, etc. The Blue Jackets quite literally have zero bad contracts. We have like 6 bad contracts. Just because Panarin wanted the bright lights of NY and PLD is a baby doesnt reflect poorly on Jarmo at all. He's done so well given the circumstances.

 

[JAK]

Yes I want the GM whos had to deal with star players demanding out on a yearly basis and STILL having a competitive team. I want a GM who doesnt give Sergei Bobrovsky $10 million per year. I want a GM who drafts PLD over Puljujarvi even though 95% of hockey experts disagree. I want a GM who trades Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones. I want a GM who drafts guys like Oliver Bjorkstrand in the 3rd round.

Jarmo has one of the most impressive GM records of the last 7 years. He drafts well, trades extremely well, and doesnt sign stupid contracts. He does more with less. His teams almost always over achieve while Benning's teams perennially underachieve.

Jarmo doesnt sign losers like Loui Eriksson, Brandon Sutter, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel, etc. The Blue Jackets quite literally have zero bad contracts. We have like 6 bad contracts. Just because Panarin wanted the bright lights of NY and PLD is a baby doesnt reflect poorly on Jarmo at all imo. He's done so well given the circumstances.

Jarmo also doesn't have Aquaman as the owner.

You guys would be surprised at how much impact the ownership has on the Canucks decisions.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

To be fair Desjardind had a recognizable system for team D, breakouts and neutral zone. He failed with his 1-2-3-4 line deployment.

Green doesn’t make the bozo line deployment mistakes but his system is basically “go play pond hockey”.


@Sergei Shirokov you catch the flames go from loosey goosey to stingy as heck by bringing Sutter back?
That’s what good coaching does.

Yeah, I guess so. It makes me pine for the days of AV. Everyone knew he was a good coach but the sentiment was that the room needed a new voice. I guess the grass isn't always "greener."

 

[Love]

Jarmo also doesn't have Aquaman as the owner.

You guys would be surprised at how much impact the ownership has on the Canucks decisions.

I agree that Aquaman is a huge problem but if it really truly doesnt matter who the GM is, and Aquaman is pulling the strings regardless, then what are we even doing here? May as well stop fussing about the GM, signings, or even being a fan and having hope for the team in the future.

So yes ownership is a huge issue but are they 100% of the problem? Was it Francesco's fault that Benning signed Beagle, Eriksson, Sutter, and Roussel? Was it Francesco who wanted Juolevi over Tkachuk? I have a really hard time pinning absolutely everything on Aquaman. Benning has a role in this too and I think a better GM could at the very least influence Francesco in a better direction.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

I agree that Aquaman is a huge problem but if it really truly doesnt matter who the GM is, and Aquaman is pulling the strings regardless, then what are we even doing here?
EXACTLY

May as well stop fussing about the GM, signings, or even being a fan and having hope for the team in the future.
EXACTLY

So yes ownership is a huge issue but are they 100% of the problem?
YES

Was it Francesco's fault that Benning signed Beagle, Eriksson, Sutter, and Roussel?
YES

Was it Francesco who wanted Juolevi over Tkachuk?
YES

I have a really hard time pinning absolutely everything on Aquaman.
WHY

Benning has a role in this too and I think a better GM could at the very least influence Francesco in a better direction.
UNLIKELY, WHY WOULD IT.