Malkin '100%' coming over next year. RSL club threatens legal action

[Ola]

What makes a good hockey player, whether in Europe or North America, is always the same: skating, hockey sense, puck skills, athletic ability, endurance and work ethic. NHLers are better in every aspect. They need time to adapt to different rules and different rink sizes, but in the end, those with superior talent prevail. When Europeans come over to NA, some take a few months to adapt, but in the end, they perform well when they adapt their hockey skills to the new context and style of play.

First of all, there are extreme types who can play great in the NHL but not in Europe, and extreme types that will play great in Europe and not in the NHL. Though thoose are of course exceptions from your rule. But its a fact that for example Chechoo and McCabe tryed really hard but had allot of troubles in Europe, for example.

Though more importantly, the best player is pretty often not the best option for a team, especially in international games where guys have to get together in a short time.

 

[jekoh]

In the end, what's your point again? oh yeah, that pavel rosa is one of the top players in the world. good luck convincing me of that.

The point is you can't judge a player based on half a season in NA. If you do, then Rosa is better than Sushinsky.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

First of all, there are extreme types who can play great in the NHL but not in Europe, and extreme types that will play great in Europe and not in the NHL. Though thoose are of course exceptions from your rule. But its a fact that for example Chechoo and McCabe tryed really hard but had allot of troubles in Europe, for example.

Yes, and those guys are extreme cases as you say. For every McCabe or Hatcher, you have a Lidstrom or a Niedermayer or a Kaberle or a Gonchar, players who would have no trouble playing in the Swedish, Czech or Russian leagues.

Europeans seem to think that the NHL is a league of brutes whereas European leagues are leagues of skill and speed. That's not true. The average NHLer is faster and more skilled than the guys in the Euro leagues. They have all the skills necessary to succeed in Europe.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

The point is you can't judge a player based on half a season in NA. If you do, then Rosa is better than Sushinsky.

I'm not judging Rosa on his half season. I'm judging him on his effort for about 7 years to get a regular job in the NHL, which he was never able to do. To say that he is one of the best players in the world when he wasn,t even able to make the NHL is ludicrous.

 

[Zine]

No, this sample is even smaller than the one year of lockout European play. Canada and the US didn't do well, but other teams lead by NHL stars like Sweden and Finland won. It may be a slightly different game (how different from last season's NHL to this season's though?), but the Euros in the NHL are entirely familiar with it.

Alright, you're sort of getting it now. But don't sidestep the issue. Who cares if Sweden & Finland won? The point is that US and Canada had some of the best talent the NHL had to offer yet still sucked. Please answer my question - how can this conceivably happen if (by your admission) NHL players are so far ahead of everybody else. This isn't a rare occurance either, it happens every olympics and WC.

Yes, because the NHL is the place where talent is best judged, not some second tier league in Europe. And Sushinski and Dopita have only dominated NHLers during this one year.

Maybe for North Americans but not everybody. Again, not everyone sees the NHL as the holy grail of hockey.

Second, Dopita didn't dominate during the lock-out...he's waaay past his prime now. But he always dominated the NHL's best during international competition. He played a huge role for the Czechs in 2 olympic games and their 3 WC golds in 99,00 and '01.

What makes a good hockey player, whether in Europe or North America, is always the same: skating, hockey sense, puck skills, athletic ability, endurance and work ethic. NHLers are better in every aspect. They need time to adapt to different rules and different rink sizes, but in the end, those with superior talent prevail. When Europeans come over to NA, some take a few months to adapt, but in the end, they perform well when they adapt their hockey skills to the new context and style of play..

No. Different skill sets are emphasized in different leagues.
For example, skating ability (although helpful) is not really vital for an NHL defensemen - positional play and the ability to withstand physical punishment is. There are tons of D-men in Europe who are more skilled than NHL d-men but lack either the size or ability to play a physical game.
Yet on the big ice, these guys are much better than many many NHLers who (because of a lack of mobility) would look like pylons.

Perhaps I underrate the difference in styles, but it's pretty certain that you completely overrate it, if you actually believe that Morozov is a better player than Kovalchuk because he got 5 more points than him last year (in 5 more games)...

It depends on how you want to define 'better player'. You seem to only look at it in terms of NHL play.
Perhaps you saw Kovalchuk play in the olympics, or the last world championships?....not too impressive.

Kaigorodov no
Malkin Yes
Chistov Not yet
Zinoviev Not yet
Morozov No. supremely talented, but ultimately useless
Nepryaev no
Taratukhin no
Tkachenko no
Kuryanov no
Antipov no
Svitov no
Popov no
Mozyakin no
Semin no
Mirnov don't make me laugh
Kharitonov no
Sushinsky yes
Simakov no
Grigorenko no
Trubachev no
Korolyuk no, he sucks

There, I win.

Wow.....just wow. I think my head is about to explode.
No disrespect, but I'll go with the oppinions of the Russian Federation and countless HF posters (including myself) who've all seen these players play, over somebody who's probably never seen 3/4 of these guys.

Saprykin over Kaigorodov, Morozov, Semin, Zinoviev, Korolyuk, Grigorenko, Mozyakin.

 

[Slitty]

Saprykin is a probably a good second liner by RSL standards. I can name much more than 10 RSLers better than Saprykin, I'll double your request and give you 20 off the top of my head.


Sushinsky
Morozov
Kharitonov
Chistov
Semin
Malkin
Korolyuk
Mikhnov
Taratukhin
Arkhipov
Zaripov
Nepriyev
Antipov
Grigorenko
Kudermetov
Sidyakin
Yemeleyev
Nurtdinov
Kaigorodov
But



To give you some verification. Both Saprykin and Zherdev took the initiative to call the coach and ask to be on the World Championship team. Neither was invited. Granted the coach is a moron and Zherdev isn't a bad player who deserved to be there, but it goes to show you that being an NHLer doesn't automatically make you better than a full team of RSL forwards who are going to the Worlds while you are not. A lot of good RSLers were injured or declined as well.


All though I agree with the vast majourity of your arguements Zine and think them to be brilliantly delivered... just a note: slower defencemen like Yuskevich and Khomitsky find a way to be successful in the RSL. Khomitsky is probably making the jump to the NHL next year.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

Alright, you're sort of getting it now. But don't sidestep the issue. Who cares if Sweden & Finland won? The point is that US and Canada had some of the best talent the NHL had to offer yet still sucked. Please answer my question - how can this conceivably happen if (by your admission) NHL players are so far ahead of everybody else. This isn't a rare occurance either, it happens every olympics and WC.

We care that Sweden and Finland won because they were composed mainly of top level NHL talent, when you're telling me that Latvia tying the US is proof that NHL players are no good.

Of course upsets happen. They happen all the time in one game tournaments like these.

No. Different skill sets are emphasized in different leagues.
For example, skating ability (although helpful) is not really vital for an NHL defensemen - positional play and the ability to withstand physical punishment is. There are tons of D-men in Europe who are more skilled than NHL d-men but lack either the size or ability to play a physical game.
Yet on the big ice, these guys are much better than many many NHLers who (because of a lack of mobility) would look like pylons.

This is just silly now. The average NHL defenceman is a better skater than the average European defenseman. The average NHL defenceman is more skilled and more agile than the average European defenseman.

As for your list of players, I'm only kidding when I say "there, I win". I haven't seen most of those players. However, I have seen some of the stalwarts you keep gushing over like Dopita and Morozov, and when you tell me that Morozov is a better player than Kovalchuk on the basis that he got 5 more points than him in 5 more games, and ignoring Kovalchuk's NHL dominance and Morozov's 7 years of sucking, or that Bulis is as good or better than Elias or Hejduk, on the basis of their scoring rank in the Czech league last year, I don't really trust your judgement, because those things are just incredibly silly.

You seem to think I have something against Europeans, or that this is a America vs Europe thing. It isn't. I'm saying that the Europeans who play in the NHL are better than the Europeans who play in Europe.

Edit: anyway Zine, you've been a class act throughout, and we're obviously not going to convince each other, so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

No, I pointed out the differences in the contractual situations.

Both were still developed by their respective clubs, and that's the reason you're giving for why Malkin should have to do what Metallurg wants.

So what's the difference between your opinion on Ovechkin and on Malkin ? Your position is not consistent.

Another common characteristic of the young, priviledged fanatics is that when confronted with their inconsistencies, they run away. Not to Russia of course, since they don't live there.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Alright, let's make a simple bet.

If Malkin is with the Penguins by October 1, 2006, you will never post here again.

If Malkin is not with the Penguins by October 1, 2006, I will never post here again.

Deal?

Is this Russian or American court any trial would be tried in?

 

[Kirk Muller*]

Is this Russian or American court any trial would be tried in?

No need for a trial, I've already won.