Main Reason for Avs SOG Struggle?

[Foppa2118]

dallas is about as bad on D as avs are.

It's not that great personnel wise, but Lehtonen's also barely hovering above a .900 save percentage. I'd say that plays into it a little.

For all of the Avs struggles defensively, Varly has a .921 save percentage, and had a .927 last year.

 

[Iceberg]

Pretty much what everyone said, but I'd also add the team is severely lacking in quality two-way/defensive forwards. Nearly every team in the NHL has something resembling a "shutdown" line. The Avs have exactly two true two-way forwards and they're being depended upon for scoring. Good teams have quality 4th liners. Roy is still stuck with the mindset that so long as they provide "energy and PK support," they're fine. Yet he only ices them for scant minutes and NEVER in the defensive zone, which means he doesn't trust them, which means he shouldn't ice them at all in that case.

In essence, he's icing a very talented roster with holes, and settled for filling the holes with absolute garbage. And it's that garbage that isn't offering proper support, garbage Roy has to shelter very carefully, that forces the players whose job it is to put the damned puck in the net to do things they're simply not built to do. Guys like Duchene should be getting easier minutes, but under Roy he's been getting tougher matchups.

It's no secret that the Avs, even when they're playing well, put forth one or two periods of quality hockey and at least one period of crap. A more balanced team, a team that didn't have to work so hard to make up for it's glaring flaws, wouldn't have such an issue.

The Islanders are a prime example of how you don't need a ton of superstars to ice a competitive squad. Look how many players on that team have good, quality 2-way players. They almost have TOO many and not enough slick goal-scorers, but really, it's impossible to have too many 2-way players IMO. The Avs have two. Lump that in with the fact they also have only two true quality defensemen and you have a team that can't defend.

Why? Isn't Duchene our #1 center? He should be able to go up against the other team's top line, shouldn't he??

 

[Taak19]

Maybe it's the crappy dump and chase and hope you get the puck back system they have.

And when I say dump I don't just mean the forwards moving into the zone, any time an Av has the puck the best idea seems to be dump it in from wherever the hell you happen to be at the time you get the puck.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well, right away in tonight's game I can see another big reason--Roy is slowly going back to M2M, and it's even worse than before. Now we're seeing d-men veer off when they could easily wipe someone out on the boards. It's M2M with a lot of collapsing down low and all around the net, hardly any aggressive play. So on top of the league's slowest defensive corps, a lack of true defensive forwards, and just outright too many crappy players on the roster, you have a coach putting in one of the most passive defensive systems in the NHL. It should be no surprise whatsoever they're giving up more shots than ever, but since he has them trying to block everything, he's convinced the majority of them are going wide.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Transition game from the Defensive zone is the biggest issue IMO.


That, plus the idea that lately the Avs have been able to grab leads early(Not the last 2 games, but against CHI, OTT, and Dallas), and when they get the lead, they get even more passive and Defensive in there own zone, which gives the other team even more room to cycle, pass, shoot, etc.


When the Avs are down, they generally play good hockey. Look at the 3rd period against Washington, or the last 30 minutes of tonight against Carolina. They play desperate when they're losing. The problem is they do the complete opposite when winning, and even when tied sometimes. The team needs to figure out how to play with that level of desperation for a full 60 minutes, rather than only when losing.

 

[the_fan]

Biggest issue is coaching/system....

Roy himself said they don't mind all those shots on goal against because they got Varly and most of those shots they give up are low percentage.

I'm sorry but that's kinda of a dumb philosophy. Someone should tell Roy that when they get out shot game in game out that means the opposition has the puck more and offensive zone pressure more, can't be a winning team with that mindset.

 

[Foppa2118]

Maybe it's the crappy dump and chase and hope you get the puck back system they have.

And when I say dump I don't just mean the forwards moving into the zone, any time an Av has the puck the best idea seems to be dump it in from wherever the hell you happen to be at the time you get the puck.

It's because they've spent most of their shift running around their own zone and can barely get to the redline without turning it over.

 

[umdieecke*]

I've said for a long time that adequate puck movers on the back end is the main concern, in my opinion. I think a player like a Nick Leddy on the left side would have worked wonders for our blueline this year.

Mix that problem with seemingly inconsistent desire from our forwards to come back and aid the breakout and you have a system that is destined to struggle at times.

We have one of the fastest rosters in the league and the combination of the above problems really counteracts what should be one of the most dominating strengths of any team in the NHL.

Totally agree. This is the bulk of the reason. Stastny, while not fast , would anticipate the play in front of him and make it there.

But this is drastically compounded by defensive shortcomings. They're poor at winning position. And when they do, they're poor at converting defense to offense.

MacKinnon and Duchene each prefer getting into transition. But it's a huge challenge with defensemen who struggle winning possession and struggle even worse when trying to convert defense to offense. They lack skill in both regards .

From what I've seen and read , MacKinnon and Duvhene have looked like wide receivers who rub with the ball before they catch it.

 

[Cypher]

Imagine if the Avs didn't have goaltending this year? Also, love those MIN goalies!

Top 5 teams in shots against, season
1. BUF 1553
2. COL 1518
3. TOR 1440
4. OTT 1369
5. CLB 1336
8. EDM 1311

Bottom 5 teams in shots against, season
30. NYR 1136
29. MIN 1142
28. NYI 1156
27. DET 1156
26. STL 1178


Top 5 teams in team save percentage, season
1. CHI 0.925
2. MON 0.925
3. NSH 0.925
4. PITT 0.924
5. COL 0.918

Bottom 5 teams in team save percentage, season
30. EDM 0.889
29. MIN 0.889
28. DAL 0.894
27. ARI 0.897
26. NYI 0.901

 

[brandon048]

I wouldn't say we're necessarily one of the fastest teams out there, but we don't need to be. The puck has never been beaten by a player in a race, just like father time is undefeated, etc. This team needs to move the puck better, plain and simple. However, that's not going to happen with players like Hejda, Stuart, Holden, and Guenin playing regular minutes. That's why we see so many times the puck just chipped high off the glass, or flipped up the middle in the air, or a long stretch pass along the boards in order for it to be deflected into the zone for a dump-in. Our defenseman can't make passes, and it hampers our forwards immensely.

The Boston Bruins have proven for years that you don't need to have a fast team in order to play a fast brand of hockey, because they can move the puck so well. The fastest players in the league can't keep up with puck movement.

That's why, near the end of the season, if this team is still out of the playoffs, and Hejda is traded at the deadline, I'd like to see them call up all three of Siemens, Elliott, and Noreau just to see how we'd play with defenseman that could actually move the puck

Haven't seen Noreau play this year, but from the little I've seen of him in the Swiss league past few years I'd be more than okay giving him a shot. 89 points in 124 games in the Swiss-A league, plus back to back 50+ point seasons a few years ago in Houston. Leads LEM in points at this time as well, with Elliott being 2nd on the team. Elliott is also one of seven playing with a + rating. He's shown from time to time that he can have his moments in the NHL, maybe another solid shot will do him well.
The team had a chance to keep pace with LA/Calgary tonight and came out completely flat. These are the games you need to come over-prepared for, not just out for a skate.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I've been saying for a while it's fear/overthinking. Of course they know how huge it would be to win a division game on the road to finish the trip over .500. I refuse to believe it's because they don't care. They care too much but it's not directed and channelled into intensity, quite the opposite.

Noreau has been great. I really like his game. He shoots and creates offense, leader, can play tough when he needs to be. I don't know that anyone is great defensively down there, it's probably a work in progress but he's earned a look for sure. Him and Elliott leading the team in points shows they are having a solid year but it's also an indictment if how lacking they are in offense from the forwards. Here it's getting the talent to show up, there it's more a concern of lack of talent.

 

[The Pwnerer]

The reason for it is the reason why Stastny left. The man lived through it. He knows whats up.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Haven't seen Noreau play this year, but from the little I've seen of him in the Swiss league past few years I'd be more than okay giving him a shot. 89 points in 124 games in the Swiss-A league, plus back to back 50+ point seasons a few years ago in Houston. Leads LEM in points at this time as well, with Elliott being 2nd on the team. Elliott is also one of seven playing with a + rating. He's shown from time to time that he can have his moments in the NHL, maybe another solid shot will do him well.
The team had a chance to keep pace with LA/Calgary tonight and came out completely flat. These are the games you need to come over-prepared for, not just out for a skate.

Over-prepared might have been the problem. They might have put to much emphasis on this game and were too just mentally tense.

 

[JoemAvs]

We can't pass and our defense can't move the puck.
We also can't break out of the zone to save our lifes if the opposing team forechecks us hard.

Our defense also is pretty bad at defending and we as a team are pretty bad at winning the board battles and regaining the puck.

The system is certainly a problem but at this point it is also simply a lack of overall talent.

 

[Bender]

While I understand that there are specific things that we need to get better at, (puck retrieval and defensize zone breakouts are obvious ones) everyone that is an Avs fan knew, before the season started that we had some holes in our defense. Specifically speaking, our needs were a solid #2 and a solid #3 guy on the backend, ideally.

We are NOT a team that is as far along as the blues or the hawks, that much is sure.

Again, after a 4-8-5 start, we are now 15-10-5 in our last 30 games after switching from man-to-man.

That projects to a 95-96 point pace over an entire season...nothing to get too excited about but we'd likely be in the playoffs or right there. The problem is our horrible start.

I think with the team we have right now and the holes we have, that's about where we thought they'd be at the start of the year or close to it.

Right now, we're just not getting enough from our top group of forwards. Duchene, MacKinnon and Landeskog need to play harder and better. The Power Play is ATROCIOUS and chiefly responsible for a handful of losses this year.

There's a lot going wrong but when you take a step back and think that we can be 15-10-5 without MacKinnon, Landeskog and/or Duchene on fire at all, we could be looking at a much more dangerous team when they DO decide they they want to be difference makers.

I know I keep coming back to it, but the similarities between this team and the one with disgruntled Mats Sundin and the way that season went, are astounding.

From 1992-93 to 1993-94
Sundin : -29 pts
Sakic : -13 pts
Ricci : -9 pts
Nolan : only played 6 games (out for the year)
Kovalenko : -35 pts (injured part of the year / played 58gp)
Young : -9 pts
Rucinsky : -16 pts
Kamensky : +28 pts (missed more than half 1992-93 with injury)

You can't have the same success when almost everyone on your team is underperforming. You would think Sakic would see the similarities between his team right now and what he lived through back then.

That's not to say that this is entirely RoR's and his situation's fault but I personally DO think that it's a distraction and that once it happens, the team will take a step forward.

 

[Lord Moriarty007]

The dump and chase is not helping the team.

 

[18Mike18]

I still think its cause of Stastny. Having Mack playing on the wing is much better. The D is still bad too.

 

[Pokecheque]

I still think its cause of Stastny. Having Mack playing on the wing is much better. The D is still bad too.

Actually, I thought the same thing earlier this season but the numbers say otherwise (MacKinnon I mean, the D is obviously still very bad).

MacKinnon's underlying numbers look quite good, even if the points aren't quite there. At even strength he's one of the best generators of scoring chances in the league (according to War On Ice dot com) and he's a fantastic driver of play. He's even taken a quantum leap in faceoffs and gone from the team's worst to one of the team's best in that department.

So MacKinnon is actually doing quite well without Stazz, though in terms of support players, the Avs need more guys who can play a defensive role instead of grinders who kill penalties. MacKinnon's doing okay as a C (he's been good at RW too). Everberg and Winchester were good steps in the right direction, but the team has slowly been losing its defensive forwards and replacing them with players who may or may not be better, but definitely not better defensively (i.e., McGinn replacing Winnik, Mitchell replacing McClement). At the very least, the club needs to move on from Cliche and Talbot.