Main Reason for Avs SOG Struggle?

[jvcjdudu jcycyxjene]

It's been a major issue of this team this year (and last year,) and watching the team turn the puck over and run around in their own zone all night is beyond frustrating. Would a solid number 2 defenseman really repair our struggle with keeping shots down, or does the issue extend beyond the D-core (coaching, system, forwards)?

I believe that in order to be a consistently successful team in the future, the Avs will have to somehow emulate the Blackhawks' possession style hockey, but the team seems to always be chasing and making idiotic decisions with the puck. Would support on the back-end make all the difference or does the issue stem beyond having guys like Guenin and Holden playing big minutes? If the issue is entirely our defense, then what kind of player(s) would need to be acquired through free agency or trade in order to correct the high SA and defensive zone time?

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[member 116861]

Team struggling to move the puck? Let's bring in Brad Stuart. Still struggling to move the puck? Play Guenin and Holden over Redmond. Still not enough? Keep Elliott in the minors.

 

[Freudian]

Lack of puck skill, lack of support in transition forcing players to try passes that are too hard for them leading to turnovers, defenders that prefer to cycle the puck instead of shooting and lack of traffic in front of goal so Avs get few shots on rebounds.

 

[R S]

I've said for a long time that adequate puck movers on the back end is the main concern, in my opinion. I think a player like a Nick Leddy on the left side would have worked wonders for our blueline this year.

Mix that problem with seemingly inconsistent desire from our forwards to come back and aid the breakout and you have a system that is destined to struggle at times.

We have one of the fastest rosters in the league and the combination of the above problems really counteracts what should be one of the most dominating strengths of any team in the NHL.

 

[Pokecheque]

Pretty much what everyone said, but I'd also add the team is severely lacking in quality two-way/defensive forwards. Nearly every team in the NHL has something resembling a "shutdown" line. The Avs have exactly two true two-way forwards and they're being depended upon for scoring. Good teams have quality 4th liners. Roy is still stuck with the mindset that so long as they provide "energy and PK support," they're fine. Yet he only ices them for scant minutes and NEVER in the defensive zone, which means he doesn't trust them, which means he shouldn't ice them at all in that case.

In essence, he's icing a very talented roster with holes, and settled for filling the holes with absolute garbage. And it's that garbage that isn't offering proper support, garbage Roy has to shelter very carefully, that forces the players whose job it is to put the damned puck in the net to do things they're simply not built to do. Guys like Duchene should be getting easier minutes, but under Roy he's been getting tougher matchups.

It's no secret that the Avs, even when they're playing well, put forth one or two periods of quality hockey and at least one period of crap. A more balanced team, a team that didn't have to work so hard to make up for it's glaring flaws, wouldn't have such an issue.

The Islanders are a prime example of how you don't need a ton of superstars to ice a competitive squad. Look how many players on that team have good, quality 2-way players. They almost have TOO many and not enough slick goal-scorers, but really, it's impossible to have too many 2-way players IMO. The Avs have two. Lump that in with the fact they also have only two true quality defensemen and you have a team that can't defend.

 

[S E P H]

Today, it was because of faceoffs. Last season though, it was because Avs always lead in games (top 3 in most 1st period goals scored) which made them sit back and having Varlamov bail us out.

Part of the reason is due to the talent level from inadequate defensemen, BUT another big reason which people don't really discuss is the wingers are **** when trying to get the puck out. McGinn in particular is completely horrible and loses every 1v1 battle with the defenseman.

Another reason I have noticed is that the Avs being too much "one and done" offensively this season. No sustained forecheck, no pressure, and no cycle game. When Avs offensive players should shoot, they pass, when they should pass, they shoot. Then they are not good enough or lack confidence to make any turnovers for themselves. And none of the top 6 forwards are showing a good level of talent to help keep the puck in. Landeskog is good on the forecheck, but loses the puck every time he tries to do anything, Duchene kills any offensive danger with no ability to catch a pass, MacKinnon bobbles the puck all over the effin place, can't rely on a almost 40 Iginla for any puck skills, and Tanguay constantly goes offsides every time.

They are just way too easy to beat by one to two passes out of the defensive zone on the transition game. Avs win and die by their OWN transition game, so it is interesting (and ironic) to see a team lose any offensive potential from the same area of the game they win by.

 

[Pokecheque]

We have one of the fastest rosters in the league and the combination of the above problems really counteracts what should be one of the most dominating strengths of any team in the NHL.

I agree, but I'd say they are a noticeably slower team than they were last season. He may not have been fleet of foot, but Stastny was deceptively quick, and was amazingly good on the rush. He may not have moved fast, but he sure thought fast. Iginla and Tanguay have been hella good and I have no right to complain, but they're also quite slow.

Mind you, I realize Benoit and Sarich were slow as hell too, but they sure as hell didn't do enough to make the team faster.

 

[Foppa2118]

I've said for a long time that adequate puck movers on the back end is the main concern, in my opinion. I think a player like a Nick Leddy on the left side would have worked wonders for our blueline this year.

Mix that problem with seemingly inconsistent desire from our forwards to come back and aid the breakout and you have a system that is destined to struggle at times.

We have one of the fastest rosters in the league and the combination of the above problems really counteracts what should be one of the most dominating strengths of any team in the NHL.

Puck mobility is always nice to have, but it does you no good if you can't get the puck away from the opposition in your own zone. They spend all their time hemmed in their own end, and by the time they get it they're gassed and can't skate well with the puck. It's been a big issue all year, and it's one of the biggest issues they've had in not scoring, and in making poor passes all over the ice IMO. They're just not fresh because they're defending all the time.

The top two pairings have about as good of puck movers as you can hope for in EJ and Barrie, and if Roy'd play Redmond, he'd have a good option on the 3rd pairing too. What they have a distinct lack of is defenders that can break up plays 5 on 5 and get the puck back so it can be moved out of the zone.

 

[shadow1]

No depth/not enough talent due to poor drafting.

 

[not a troll]

We are terrible at passing the puck this year. We can't make any passes so the play dies pretty quick.

 

[Cypher]

Couple reasons why we always get outshout:

Problem: We have never have the puck; teams put pressure on our puck carrier right away, thus we throw it along the boards.
Solution: Avs have no puck support, ever. Our wingers need to skate to the puck along the boards, in the defensive zone AND offensive zone. Forwards need to give our puck carrier an outlet to pass to aka make a triangle (puck carrier should have 2 options to pass to on breakouts, say 2 and 10 o'clock). Stop being in the neutral zone all the time on breakouts and keep moving your feet.

Problem: Avs miss the net more times than not.
Solution: Shoot the puck if you're in the slot and stop over passing/being cute. Communicate with your teammates and cycle down low until something happens instead of just throwing it to the point man, who takes a weak wrist shoot with no possible rebound or turns it over along the boards.

Problem: No shots on the powerplay
Solution: Stop this stupid setup of the puck carrier skating in and the 4 other players are flat footed at the blue line, it makes no sense (1 Av vs 4 essentially). Either dump it in as you hit the red line, with the wingers timing it so they going full speed along the boards and have a chance to get it first or dump it on net and force a face-off or the goalie to play it.

 

[dahrougem2]

I wouldn't say we're necessarily one of the fastest teams out there, but we don't need to be. The puck has never been beaten by a player in a race, just like father time is undefeated, etc. This team needs to move the puck better, plain and simple. However, that's not going to happen with players like Hejda, Stuart, Holden, and Guenin playing regular minutes. That's why we see so many times the puck just chipped high off the glass, or flipped up the middle in the air, or a long stretch pass along the boards in order for it to be deflected into the zone for a dump-in. Our defenseman can't make passes, and it hampers our forwards immensely.

The Boston Bruins have proven for years that you don't need to have a fast team in order to play a fast brand of hockey, because they can move the puck so well. The fastest players in the league can't keep up with puck movement.

That's why, near the end of the season, if this team is still out of the playoffs, and Hejda is traded at the deadline, I'd like to see them call up all three of Siemens, Elliott, and Noreau just to see how we'd play with defenseman that could actually move the puck

 

[jvcjdudu jcycyxjene]

I wouldn't say we're necessarily one of the fastest teams out there, but we don't need to be. The puck has never been beaten by a player in a race, just like father time is undefeated, etc. This team needs to move the puck better, plain and simple. However, that's not going to happen with players like Hejda, Stuart, Holden, and Guenin playing regular minutes. That's why we see so many times the puck just chipped high off the glass, or flipped up the middle in the air, or a long stretch pass along the boards in order for it to be deflected into the zone for a dump-in. Our defenseman can't make passes, and it hampers our forwards immensely.

The Boston Bruins have proven for years that you don't need to have a fast team in order to play a fast brand of hockey, because they can move the puck so well. The fastest players in the league can't keep up with puck movement.

That's why, near the end of the season, if this team is still out of the playoffs, and Hejda is traded at the deadline, I'd like to see them call up all three of Siemens, Elliott, and Noreau just to see how we'd play with defenseman that could actually move the puck

Yes, the bulk of the problem seems to be on defense, but another issue seems to be the forwards. Just as we can't seem to alleviate pressure in the defensive zone, it seems almost impossible for the team to apply any amount of sustained pressure in the offensive zone. The forwards that like to hang on to the puck almost always have the play die on their stick, either through harmless perimeter shots or just by getting out-muscled in the corner.

It's an offense that doesn't seem to be able to stickhandle, pass, or get dangerous shots on net. The age old saying that the more time you spend in the opposing zone the less time you spend in your own zone fits in here. We simply cannot get our offensive game going, which then exposes the team's defensive weaknesses. This is where I miss Stastny.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It's also not Roy's style to fire garbage at the net. He said he thinks this team 'as enough offensive talent that they can actually set up and only shoot with golden opportunities which helps explain last years shooting %. At the same time though the Avs are unable to create much offense without anyone moving the puck from the back end. That's where the play starts but we don't have anyone willing to move the puck forward outside of EJ and some games Barrie.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

It's also not Roy's style to fire garbage at the net. He said he thinks this team 'as enough offensive talent that they can actually set up and only shoot with golden opportunities which helps explain last years shooting %.

He's said the opposite this year. He wants them to start putting more pucks on net, and was saying after the Chicago game that that's a good team for the Avs to emulate, because they shoot from everywhere.

 

[ABasin]

It's been a major issue of this team this year (and last year,) and watching the team turn the puck over and run around in their own zone all night is beyond frustrating. Would a solid number 2 defenseman really repair our struggle with keeping shots down, or does the issue extend beyond the D-core (coaching, system, forwards)?

Bad team hockey. One added defenseman wouldn't solve it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

He's said the opposite this year. He wants them to start putting more pucks on net, and was saying after the Chicago game that that's a good team for the Avs to emulate, because they shoot from everywhere.

Wow, team is just refusing to do what he asks then

 

[not a troll]

Can we send the whole team to the AHL for a conditioning stint to gain some confidence? Let the Monsters play in our place for a couple weeks. Kind of like a take a step back so you can take two forward.

 

[The Kingslayer]

We are terrible at passing the puck this year. We can't make any passes so the play dies pretty quick.

Cant make or accept a pass. How many easy passes do our forwards fumble or double clutch on? Last night there were prolly 9-15. Landeskogs dumbass pass nearly lead to a 3rd goal in the 3rd period. Just dumb all around.

 

[Foppa2118]

We are terrible at passing the puck this year. We can't make any passes so the play dies pretty quick.

There's another level of reasoning behind that though. Why are they so bad at passing the puck? That's the issue. IMO it's because their D is too porous, and the forwards haven't been nearly as committed defensively this year, so they spend too much time defending. This leads to fatigue and mental errors, which is the cause for a lot of their problems I think, but their play defensively is the root cause.

Benn was asked during the Dallas game what their secret for success was offensively this year, and he straight up said it was because they were playing good defense, and this allowed them to get the puck to the forwards. It's the exact opposite with the Avs.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Wow, team is just refusing to do what he asks then

Yeah, Roy has been a broken record this year. Put pucks on net, drive the net, look for rebounds. When this team gets going offensively I still think they will always be a more quality over quantity team but they need to learn to be able to adapt when things aren't going in.

Btw, I figured out/remembered that those on conditioning sting are still on the roster. Meaning they still take up one of the roster spaces.

 

[Foppa2118]

He's said the opposite this year. He wants them to start putting more pucks on net, and was saying after the Chicago game that that's a good team for the Avs to emulate, because they shoot from everywhere.

Every coach going back to Hartley has done the same thing. They've come in preaching offense and letting the offensive stars play creative hockey, which works initially, but then they realize in their 2nd season that's not really going to work and they need to simplify and play better defensive hockey in order to win more consistently.

Hopefully Roy realizes that now and it's not just a case of trying to break out of the slump, and then going back to pond hockey. Roy's been very bi-polar on his hockey philosophy this year, in terms of whether he likes teams to play creative hockey and go for the high percentage chances, or just throw the puck on net like Chicago which has seemingly been their model for building the Avs since the start.

Yeah, Roy has been a broken record this year. Put pucks on net, drive the net, look for rebounds. When this team gets going offensively I still think they will always be a more quality over quantity team but they need to learn to be able to adapt when things aren't going in.

Btw, I figured out/remembered that those on conditioning sting are still on the roster. Meaning they still take up one of the roster spaces.

He's been a broken record recently, but he didn't really start the season that way. Through the first month or so he was still talking about how he liked his teams to play a creative offensive style like they did last year and make skilled plays, rather than just throw everything on net.

I can't tell what he really wants the Avs to play like, vs what he wants them to play like for the rest of the year because they're a mess confidence wise.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

If Dallas is playing good defense then why are they allowing so many goals? They are well above 3 per game. Their PK is below 80%. They are giving up a lot of shots (though that isn't necessarily a reflection of bad D). Has Lehtonen really fallen that far? Last year he was about the only positive thing, defensively.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Chicago plays pretty creatively and with skill though. The Sharks seems to be more of an example of a team that shoots just to shoot.

And yeah, I wouldn't uphold Dallas as a great example of defensive excellence.

 

[InjuredChoker]

dallas is about as bad on D as avs are.