Maclean out, Cameron in. Part 2

[Caeldan]

So long Paulrus, welcome Melnyk's boy!

Continue discussion here.

[NHL]694183[/NHL]

Press conference notes:

Certain levels not being reached
Hard to dismiss a friend.
Need to get to the next level that they think they can achieve.

What was the reason?
Not sure why they came up short. Continue to be big turnover team in own zone.
Goaltending was outstanding. Gave chance to win games.
Too many chances against. Used the word “atrocious†to describe how many chances against.
Need to set a system to allow players to be good defensively.
Said the team isn’t necessarily bad defensively. Just gives up the puck too much

Old Paul vs new Paul
Uneasiness in the room, without a doubt
Better players felt they were singled out a little too often. “That’s today’s athlete. Want to be corrected and coached, given a chance to play without being the centirepoint of discussion.â€

Cameron is Head Coach. NOT INTERIM.
Talked to Cameron. Got his interest. What his belief was regarding the team. Murray believes what Cameron wants to do.


Why so hard to find a coach since Murray became GM?
Murray asked if he himself overestimates the players. Said all mgmt staff included in decisions. All felt they have a competitive team, playoff contender. Felt the team wasn’t competitive enough on most nights.
Tried to provide the palyers that he fely would allow Maclean to succeed with this.

At what time did he think the change was needed?
No one was happy at the end of last year. Said after last season that he would evaluate after 20 games. Team continued to play the same way they did last year. Mainly defensive issues. Last 4-5 games brought it to a point that something needed to be done.

Asked about “Old Paulâ€
Said he’d have to ask Paul that question. Murray thought he related very well to the players in his first couple years. He drifted from that. Think it’s might be the pressure of the game and expectations.


(missed the question)
The game is about winning and losing and things change. This is the business. Results oriented.

About defence:
I don’t think the defence is that bad. Players are good. Positioning is the issue. Forwards not offering support. Exiting zone too early so D has no pass. Said he talked a thousand times about it and nothing changed.

Paul’s reaction after the game. Asked if he thought he bought himself some time with the win.
Said Paul was told at 9:30 this morning and he wasn’t happy. Murray wasn’t happy to do it.
Murray said getting behind 3-0 let the team forget about structure and just go play and that helped the team. Speed and talent showed up because of it. That’s what he wants the team to be. Have fun playing the game. Too many rules and too much structure takes that fuin away.
Will play with more speed and aggression, keep it simple, help each other, be creative in their own way. Less constrained by structure.


Why Cameron will work when Paddock didn’t?
Dave is a guy who has coached a lot. AHL, WJC, junior…successful at all levels. Former teacher, so will be very good with young players. Good people skills, so he will relate with the players. Team doesn’t have a lot of older players so he will work well with the majority of players. Not sure if he’s necessarily a players coach, but will allow players to play and will relate well 1-on-1


Sense from playters that communication was a 1-way street and everything was “Noâ€
Murray agreed. Pressure may have got to Maclean and he wasn’t as open to listen to ideas and take them. Players now really want that access to the coach and have a strong rapport with the coach and have their input acknowledged.

Why bring him back after last season?
Maclean is a good coach. Murray was in his corner to have a bounce back after a bad year. Bad years happen. Thought Mac could get the team back. It didn’t happen.

Which players did Murray meet with yesterday?
Wouldn’t say.


Talks to adjust Cameron’s contract.
Murray is working on it. Has 2 years left on his Assistant coach deal.

Any other coaches considered? Asked about Luke
Luke is very happy right now. Wants to focus on Bingo and staying close to his daughter.
Dave was the other guy in line
Dave is meeting with all staff today. Will indicate to B Murray today if the rest of the staff wants to stay.

Jack Adams kiss of death for a coach? Was Maclean different after winning?
Thinks Maclean expected more from the players when he came back. Thinks Mac will get another job soon.

Was Dave part of the coaches considered when Mac was hired?
Yes. He was one of 5 coaches interviewed.

Asked about trades
“I’m talking to some teams.â€
Said something weird about Dave being able to add or subtract a piece as the coach…???

What’s the impact?
Believe they have a chance to be a playoff team. By doing the change with 55 games left, Cameron has a chance to get the team playing better, skating more, and take a run at a playoff spot.

What’s the difference between Cameron and Mac?
Dave has lots of background as a teacher, coach and player. He will recognize the power of communication to empower players. Dvelop a system to benefit players. Forecheck harder. Cut down turnovers with better defensive presence.




That’s it.

The players feel bad. Well, that's too bad.

Click to read more...

 

[Golden]

But the "Limp rag hired as replacement" thread title was too perfect.

 

[jbeck5]

Surest way is to develop good players. We are in the thick of that.

We don't need good players.

We need star players.

Turris, MacArthur, Ryan, zibanejad, chiasson, stone, hoffman, etc. are our 40-60 point players. They're our mceacherns, our bonks, our smolinskis, our whites, our Schaefer's, our fishers.

But who are our young alfredssons, hossas,havlats,heatley,spezza? Those are all guys who could flirt with a point per game while playing with the lesser guys from the above group.

Havlat flirted with ppg playing with Schaefer and fisher. Hossa flirted with ppg playing with varada and bonk.
Alfredsson flirted with ppg playing with white and smolinski.

Who do we have that can flirt with ppg while playing with 40 point players? Bobby Ryan is the closest and I see him topping out at 60something points- a bad year for hossa/alfredsson/etc.

Is puempel going to be a guy who could hit 70-80 playing with 2nd and third liners? Nope.
Is it prince? Nope.
Pageau? Nope.
Turris? Highly doubtful.
Zibby? Highly doubtful.
Lazar? Nope.

The forward group is the similar to the one from 10 years ago, but if you took 3 near ppg players and turned them into greening,smith, and condra.

Its been asked time and time again. Where are we going to get our star forwards to become a Stanley cup contender?


That's just our forwards.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I'm happy about it and have very little negative stuff to say.

Just trying to balance things out a little.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

All I want to know is, is it true some players went to Murray and complain about Maclean lately, and is that what ultimately got him fired?

If so, I want a list of those players, and I want them off the team asap. I don't care who they are, if it's our captain, or a plug like Greening. Anyone who doesn't have the balls to go to the coach directly doesn't deserve to be on the team, and does not have what it takes to win anything significant.

 

[Super Cake]

All I want to know is, is it true some players went to Murray and complain about Maclean lately, and is that what ultimately got him fired?

If so, I want a list of those players, and I want them off the team asap. I don't care who they are, if it's our captain, or a plug like Greening. Anyone who doesn't have the balls to go to the coach directly doesn't deserve to be on the team, and does not have what it takes to win anything significant.

Maybe they did go to the coach, but he didn't listen.

Not everything is so black and white.

 

[starling]

We don't need good players.

We need star players.

Yep, that's why you should LOVE Cameron being a coach. Eugene will more likely spend to the cap with his boy running his team rather than the guy he lost faith in.

 

[Sun God Nika]

All I want to know is, is it true some players went to Murray and complain about Maclean lately, and is that what ultimately got him fired?

If so, I want a list of those players, and I want them off the team asap. I don't care who they are, if it's our captain, or a plug like Greening. Anyone who doesn't have the balls to go to the coach directly doesn't deserve to be on the team, and does not have what it takes to win anything significant.

They did go to the coach directly and he didn't listen. Thats why he is unemployed right now. Also id much rather keep Karlsson happy over the coach any day any time.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Your 2014-2015 Ottawa Senators Golf & Country Club!

Where trying is hard!

 

[Quo]

We don't need good players.

We need star players.

Karlsson is a star player. The guy had what? 74 points last year. Ryan, to me, is a star player and a major difference maker. Zibanejad definitely could be. Not sure precisely what we have in Lazar yet only that the org is very high on him and they've been right more than wrong recently. Cowen as a dominating physical presence I can still remember.

How much more do you want? I'm not interested in trying to relive the glory years here but, yes, I thought we had the makings of a truly competitive team.

 

[DylanSensFan]

anyone have a link to the heated exchange between PM and EK?

Would be interested to see this too. I think Karlsson needs to get the hell on his horse, even if I do stick up for him.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

They did go to the coach directly and he didn't listen. Thats why he is unemployed right now. Also id much rather keep Karlsson happy over the coach any day any time.

And when did all this happen?

 

[L'Aveuglette]

All I want to know is, is it true some players went to Murray and complain about Maclean lately, and is that what ultimately got him fired?

If so, I want a list of those players, and I want them off the team asap. I don't care who they are, if it's our captain, or a plug like Greening. Anyone who doesn't have the balls to go to the coach directly doesn't deserve to be on the team, and does not have what it takes to win anything significant.

To me it seems like they tuned him out as a group. It happens, and there's not much you can do about it unless you seriously think going to each player and asking him to try to be nicer to the coach would help improve things.

MacLean's style wasn't working anymore, and I don't even know why anyone would want that for the team they cheer for. We could all see there was no working system in place. So just for one second ignore the previous coaching changes and look at the team in it's current state and ask yourself why you oppose this one after the first 25 games PLUS all of last season.

For me though, the only real problem I have is that this should have been done before the summer, as we could all see the tension between Mac and the team. Murray gave him another chance but he just kept doing the same old crap that had already given him a short leash. In this league you either adapt or you get phased out. New era, folks.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Your 2014-2015 Ottawa Senators Golf & Country Club!

Where trying is hard!

That's your own opinion. I don't think reality is quite that simple.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Karlsson is a star player. The guy had what? 74 points last year. Ryan, to me, is a star player and a major difference maker. Zibanejad definitely could be. Not sure precisely what we have in Lazar yet only that the org is very high on him and they've been right more than wrong recently.

How much more do you want? I'm not interested in trying to relive the glory years here but, yes, I thought we had the makings of a truly competitive team.

I believe we do.

 

[Karlsson2Turris*]

I wish he never won the Jack Adams. He felt like he was a big time coach after winning it and thought he had to change his ways. What a shame.

 

[jbeck5]

Yep, that's why you should LOVE Cameron being a coach. Eugene will more likely spend to the cap with his boy running his team rather than the guy he lost faith in.

I'll believe it when I see us going hard(even overpaying)for the best 2 forwards available, and the best defenseman available whole buying out or sending down greening/Phillips/Neil.

I'd rather overpay by 2 million per year for the best forward available then overpay greening by 2 million and have him a healthy scratch.

We seem to be so against overpaying by 1-2 million per year for actual good players, but are fine overpaying our over the hill players that haven't accomplished anything for us.

Cut, Phillips,michalek,greening,neil and add the top 2 Ufa's while giving them 2 mil more per year. Fill in the other spot with pageau.

Were a better team while barely adding to our cap.

 

[BonkTastic]

Just in response to SenateReform's post in the last thread:

Placing the blame on the players is silly. Maclean was given specific instructions by Murray at the end of last season and was too stubborn to implement them this season. He's a good coach but he needs to lose his 'old school mentality' if he wants to stay in the NHL long term.

You're acting like this is the first time that NHL players have quit on a coach. Doesn't matter what Maclean was trying to do, if the players aren't listening, then nothing is going to get done.

I'm not trying to absolve Maclean completely of this, he obviously has to shoulder some of the blame here, but "Players tuning the coach out" is a tried-and true tradition of the NHL. It's happened a ton before today, and it will happen again after all of this is done. If the players tune the coach out, it's the coach's fault? How entitled are we going to let them be? Do your frigging job on the ice and suck it up, you're paid millions of dollars to play a game, the least you can do is listen to the guy who you are paid to listen to.

It's not silly at all.

 

[mcnorth]

I'll believe it when I see us going hard(even overpaying)for the best 2 forwards available, and the best defenseman available whole buying out or sending down greening/Phillips/Neil.

I'd rather overpay by 2 million per year for the best forward available then overpay greening by 2 million and have him a healthy scratch.

We seem to be so against overpaying by 1-2 million per year for actual good players, but are fine overpaying our over the hill players that haven't accomplished anything for us.

Cut, Phillips,michalek,greening,neil and add the top 2 Ufa's while giving them 2 mil more per year. Fill in the other spot with pageau.

Were a better team while barely adding to our cap.

Exactly. We give crap contracts to get to the floor. Waffle on an extra million for Methot. Whether you want Meth or not, it seems silly to begrudge the money when you look at Greening and Michalek and Phillips... that's wasted dollars. Won't spend 5 million for Hemsky to dangle in front of Spezza to keep him interested, but spend 4 on 9MM? Not a lot of sense there to me. And if that's the plan - it's a ****** plan. And if you think Greening and Phillips and Michalek are going to be worth that kind of money - you're not very good at being an NHL GM. Don't give me hindsight arguments, GM's need foresight and the entire hockey world has no interest in those three at those dollars.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

To me it seems like they tuned him out as a group. It happens, and there's not much you can do about it unless you seriously think going to each player and asking him to try to be nicer to the coach would help improve things.

MacLean's style wasn't working anymore, and I don't even know why anyone would want that for the team they cheer for. We could all see there was no working system in place. So just for one second ignore the previous coaching changes and look at the team in it's current state and ask yourself why you oppose this one after the first 25 games PLUS all of last season.

For me though, the only real problem I have is that this should have been done before the summer, as we could all see the tension between Mac and the team. Murray gave him another chance but he just kept doing the same old crap that had already given him a short leash. In this league you either adapt or you get phased out. New era, folks.

Funny thing is, virtually all coaches will do what Maclean does. Lean on the veterans, give the kids sheltered icetime and matchups, juggle lines to try and get guys going.

If you think things will change significantly in those regards (the things people complained most about), then you're in for a shock.

 

[Kanata]

I wonder how many of the players who complained about McLean are regretting it now? Sometimes better the devil you know.

All this 'he didn't listen to the players' stuff seems ridic to me. A coach is there to take charge. Like a parent is not a child's friend but a mentor. Yes it's important to have communication but someone needs to be in charge and it's become like the lunatics running the asylum.

I suppose the Cameron perm basis coach allows for reduced speculation and some stability. doesnt have to mean he's perm is anything but name to create a facade and less distraction.

 

[jbeck5]

Karlsson is a star player. The guy had what? 74 points last year. Ryan, to me, is a star player and a major difference maker. Zibanejad definitely could be. Not sure precisely what we have in Lazar yet only that the org is very high on him and they've been right more than wrong recently. Cowen as a dominating physical presence I can still remember.

How much more do you want? I'm not interested in trying to relive the glory years here but, yes, I thought we had the makings of a truly competitive team.

Ok, so we have karlsson...who's like redden on steroids.

Where's our hossa/heatley,alfredsson,hossa,spezza in our pipelines?

Ryan is like our #3 in havlat at the most. I doubt Ryan could hit 68 points in 68 games playing with 0.5ppg players. Havlat could.

-Lazar is our Fisher. He'll be a 50 something point pace with grittiness and 2-way play.
-Zibanejad will be similar to bonk. 40-60 points but could get more if with a star player. Even if played with our best player I doubt he touches bonks career high of 74.
-unless cowen can drastically improve his defense, and hit 35-50 points, he won't be able to hold charas jockstrap.

I still don't see where our 70-85 point pace players while playing with average players are going to come from. When we competed we had 3-4. Now you can make an argument for Ryan. We need at least one more, preferably 2.(id say 2 as our best in Ryan is boarderline and more of a #3 on a contender).

 

[StefanW]

I think MacLean will be successful in another NHL coaching gig down the road. The Jack Adams trophy will be a pretty powerful magnet to some team out there in the next year or two.

I think it is pretty clear that the coach lost the room. Just to float something that I've been thinking about all day: he seemed to lose the room at about the same time that Alfie left. Alfie was an outstanding go-between between the players and the coach. Spezza could have become that, and Karlsson still might, but both of those guys stepped into the captaincy for the first time. It takes time to learn the delicate balance of letting the players vent and be ticked off, and allowing things to go to the point where they start to tune the coach out.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Exactly. We give crap contracts to get to the floor. Waffle on an extra million for Methot. Whether you want Meth or not, it seems silly to begrudge the money when you look at Greening and Michalek and Phillips... that's wasted dollars. Won't spend 5 million for Hemsky to dangle in front of Spezza to keep him interested, but spend 4 on 9MM? Not a lot of sense there to me. And if that's the plan - it's a ****** plan. And if you think Greening and Phillips and Michalek are going to be worth that kind of money - you're not very good at being an NHL GM. Don't give me hindsight arguments, GM's need foresight and the entire hockey world has no interest in those three at those dollars.

Well said. Murray is covering his own behind with the terrible deals he's given out to keep the Country Club atmosphere going.

 

[BonkTastic]

I think it is pretty clear that the coach lost the room. Just to float something that I've been thinking about all day: he seemed to lose the room at about the same time that Alfie left.

I think that's a very real possibility.