Value of: Mackenzie Weegar

[Johnsie19]

Calgary looks to potentially need a retool especially with key players being UFAs this summer.

What would it cost to attain Weegar.

He is undoubtedly a very good top 4 dman with a reasonable 6.25 mil cap hit. The downside is he is 30 in a couple months and in yr one of an 8 yrs deal. The back side of which will likely look pretty bad.

So the risk is rather large. But his value to the Flames isn't as much as it might be to a team ready to compete over the next 4 yrs.

What do we think his value is?

Click to read more...

 

[Djp]

He turns 30 mid season
on yr 1 of an 8 yr contract
im expected to get a 1st to take that contract

id be interested if he just 4 yrs but the last 3+ yrs scares the crud out of me.

 

[hurdemz]

Whoever might be interested in him would have to send roughly the same salary back to Calgary.

Can't see a lot of teams interested based on his age and length of contract. He's fine at 6.25 but not for 7 more years after this.

 

[Johnsie19]

He turns 30 mid season
on yr 1 of an 8 yr contract
im expected to get a 1st to take that contract

id be interested if he just 4 yrs but the last 3+ yrs scares the crud out of me.

For sure but I think for most teams their window is usually only 4-5 yrs. I think Weegar can be pretty effective for that long. Then you just put up with the last 3-4 yrs isn't that bad and with the cap going up 6.25 prob looks more like a 4.5 looks now which is manageable.

But really do you think the Flames would just move on for nothing from him? Literally nothing has changed with the player since he signed the deal. The teams outlook maybe looks a bit different is all.

Whoever might be interested in him would have to send roughly the same salary back to Calgary.

Can't see a lot of teams interested based on his age and length of contract. His fine at 6.25 but not for 7 more years after this.

Say the Canucks sent Myers (to even out the cap), what else would they need to add?

 

[Strangle]

I don’t know why fans are such big fans of long contracts when signing players.

They always turn out absolutely badly and usually cost the team who signed them a 1st rd pick to get rid of.

Contracts like this are pretty much 4 years at a smaller cap hit so you can use a 1st to trade the last 4 years of the contract to someone rebuilding.

Why not just sign the player to 4 years?

 

[StickShift]

I’m going to go with less because of (1) his NTC, and (2) the length of his contract into his 30s.

The NTC is a big-one. He has the power to control the situation if Calgary wants to trade him. He could pull a Kesler and choose only one team he would waive for—which destroys any leverage the Flames might have.

 

[Djp]

For sure but I think for most teams their window is usually only 4-5 yrs. I think Weegar can be pretty effective for that long. Then you just put up with the last 3-4 yrs isn't that bad and with the cap going up 6.25 prob looks more like a 4.5 looks now which is manageable.

But really do you think the Flames would just move on for nothing from him? Literally nothing has changed with the player since he signed the deal. The teams outlook maybe looks a bit different is all.


Say the Canucks sent Myers (to even out the cap), what else would they need to add?

Right now..I’m not sold on the cap increasing given team revenue loss due to the bally sports and other cable company tv revenue isdue.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Don't see Calgary trading him at this point. His cap hit is fair for he brings, he can play both sides and the loss of Kylington coupled with the UFA status of Hanifin and Zadorov mean the Flames still need him. Still need to ice a full roster and reach the cap floor after all.

Also, fans and bad GM's struggle to adapt to a changing salary ceiling but in the coming years when the cap is rising, Weegar's fixed contract will look very, very appealing as the cap hits for similar calibre players skyrocket.

 

[Johnsie19]

I don’t know why fans are such big fans of long contracts when signing players.

They always turn out absolutely badly and usually cost the team who signed them a 1st rd pick to get rid of.

Contracts like this are pretty much 4 years at a smaller cap hit so you can use a 1st to trade the last 4 years of the contract to someone rebuilding.

Why not just sign the player to 4 years?

Definitely fans are not "fans" of these contracts. This is the agents maximizing the earning potential of their clients. In my opinion the max contract length should be 5 yrs because they deals always are an anchor that is just eventually passed on to a bottom feeder team.

Even the players themselves might have more good hockey in them at a lesser contract later in these deals but because they make too much they can't play competitive hockey.

But ya fans hate these deals.

I’m going to go with less because of (1) his NTC, and (2) the length of his contract into his 30s.

The NTC is a big-one. He has the power to control the situation if Calgary wants to trade him. He could pull a Kesler and choose only one team he would waive for—which destroys any leverage the Flames might have.

Are the Flames generally of the mindset that moving him off the books (given the parameters outlined) is just a good thing.

Like would you move him to Vancouver for an expiring Myers and something small?

Say in another 30 games if the Flames aren't looking up to it.

 

[604]

Trading guys who want "market value" on the 30+ contracts makes a lot of sense.

Rarely does it work out.

This is of course different for players who take a hometown discount.

 

[Johnsie19]

Don't see Calgary trading him at this point. His cap hit is fair for he brings, he can play both sides and the loss of Kylington coupled with the UFA status of Hanifin and Zadorov mean the Flames still need him. Still need to ice a full roster and reach the cap floor after all.

Also, fans and bad GM's struggle to adapt to a changing salary ceiling but in the coming years when the cap is rising, Weegar's fixed contract will look very, very appealing as the cap hits for similar calibre players skyrocket.

It is a changing landscape no doubt. Weegar will be getting into his mid 30s so will likely be regressing while his cap hit might look better given the cap should go up. But those 35-38 yr old yrs represent a huge liability.

And as I mentioned the Flames don't look likely to be super competitive in the next few yrs given where theyre at and that theyll likely be losing some key players this summer.

 

[CanadienShark]

I don’t know why fans are such big fans of long contracts when signing players.

They always turn out absolutely badly and usually cost the team who signed them a 1st rd pick to get rid of.

Contracts like this are pretty much 4 years at a smaller cap hit so you can use a 1st to trade the last 4 years of the contract to someone rebuilding.

Why not just sign the player to 4 years?

What if the Oilers had signed Draisaitl for only 4 years? Then you'd be looking at over $12m and another big raise on the horizon.

 

[CF84]

I love him on the Flames and don't want him traded. Last year, he was our best defenseman for the second half of the season and he's already beginning to play like second half Weegar this year after a rough start. I really don't care what other fan bases believe he is worth. He's a far better defenseman than Hanifin and is signed to a better contract than what Hanifin will likely sign for.

At least a 1st + prospect. Anything less and I'd question why he was traded. If you don't want to spend that, then don't ask.

Are the Flames generally of the mindset that moving him off the books (given the parameters outlined) is just a good thing.

Like would you move him to Vancouver for an expiring Myers and something small?

Say in another 30 games if the Flames aren't looking up to it.

Maybe ask a Flames fan? Also, NO.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Tough to move a guy signed for another 7 years when he's about to turn 30. Can't see them getting much back. Part of the return is just getting rid of the contract.

Ryan Ellis trade is probably the only comparable and he got moved for scraps.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I’d probably do Garland, 1st and a prospect for Weegar. But ultimately I’d prefer to find someone on a shorter (2-3 year) deal.

 

[Strangle]

Definitely fans are not "fans" of these contracts. This is the agents maximizing the earning potential of their clients. In my opinion the max contract length should be 5 yrs because they deals always are an anchor that is just eventually passed on to a bottom feeder team.

Even the players themselves might have more good hockey in them at a lesser contract later in these deals but because they make too much they can't play competitive hockey.

But ya fans hate these deals.


Are the Flames generally of the mindset that moving him off the books (given the parameters outlined) is just a good thing.

Like would you move him to Vancouver for an expiring Myers and something small?

Say in another 30 games if the Flames aren't looking up to it.

Sorry, I’m just going by HFboards takes on the Matthews contract when he signed.

Any non-leaf fans hated the 4 year deal. I can’t understand why, because I, like you, think 5-years is good as a max length teams should be giving out.

 

[Strangle]

What if the Oilers had signed Draisaitl for only 4 years? Then you'd be looking at over $12m and another big raise on the horizon.

At 32-33 years old, or whatever?

Why?

You’re going to be paying for declining years there, it would be a mistake for a team to sign a 32-34 year old player to a 4-5 year deal at $12-13m

You have more years at a decline than you do at peak production at that age. That’s one reason why you don’t want to sign the 8 year deals as the team.

It’s great for the player, they get paid no matter what. It almost always screws the team though. Often screws multiple teams, actually.

After trades and buyouts and LTIR shenanigans, etc.

But regardless, we are talking about weegar.

 

[Johnsie19]

Sorry, I’m just going by HFboards takes on the Matthews contract when he signed.

Any non-leaf fans hated the 4 year deal. I can’t understand why, because I, like you, think 5-years is good as a max length teams should be giving out.

All comes down to the player. If it's Elias Pettersson at 25 ya I want long term. Basically anyone over 27 though, I just don't want an 8 yr deal.

 

[HairyKneel]

He’s a good player. I’d love him on Van but we have to pay Hronek. And Filip is a fair bit younger. I’m more curious what it would cost to bring the Tan Man home. I’m thinking you can pay three big forwards, two high end D men and a goalie about 50 ish million of your cap. Having a third D man earning 6.25 per on a seven or eight year deal with Hronek at likely 7.25 x 6 moving forward and Peter likely getting 11-12 x 8, the money dries up pretty fast.

Fill in your top 4 with short term Tanev/Cole types and i think Soucy may be able to play 20 min. You wait for Willander and the kids to bounce through and get a good ELC contract to contribute. Allvin has done a masterful job rebuilding the D in one year. It’s at least adequate now.

Weegar and Anderson are who I’d keep on Calgary. Trade Hanifin. He’s the worst of the three and he’s LH. Easier to replace. Calgary is in a world of shit right now but their team isn’t this bad. Not sure why Marky melted down.

 

[Lunatik]

Not sure why Marky melted down.

Markstrom is the furthest thing from the problem with our team, he's been our MVP so far this year despite what teh numbers say. Most goals against have been deflected, through screens and backdoor plays he's had no chance on. I've seen others talk about how his expected goals against is amongst the highest in the league (maybe it was the highest?)...

As for his "meltdown", when he struggled against the OIlers in the playoffs, it was around the time he found out he was going to be a father for the first time, and of course that means last year he was expecting his first child and a new father. It's easy to be less focused when you have things going on in your personal life.

 

[CanadienShark]

At 32-33 years old, or whatever?

Why?

You’re going to be paying for declining years there, it would be a mistake for a team to sign a 32-34 year old player to a 4-5 year deal at $12-13m

You have more years at a decline than you do at peak production at that age. That’s one reason why you don’t want to sign the 8 year deals as the team.

It’s great for the player, they get paid no matter what. It almost always screws the team though. Often screws multiple teams, actually.

After trades and buyouts and LTIR shenanigans, etc.

But regardless, we are talking about weegar.

You said long term contracts always turn out badly. I cited one example otherwise.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Weegar isn't available for anything less than an overpayment. He's been fantastic and his contract will age pretty well.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Some of the comments in thread is the definition of HF insanity and obsession with youth. He’s a good player, why would anyone trade a first+ to get out of a good player? 6 million will be a bargain when the cap goes up to 100 million in 3 years.

Will the last few years of his contract not look great? Probably. But that’s when you stash players on the third pair and hopefully by then your younger players are able to be top line guys.

 

[Johnsie19]

He’s a good player. I’d love him on Van but we have to pay Hronek. And Filip is a fair bit younger. I’m more curious what it would cost to bring the Tan Man home. I’m thinking you can pay three big forwards, two high end D men and a goalie about 50 ish million of your cap. Having a third D man earning 6.25 per on a seven or eight year deal with Hronek at likely 7.25 x 6 moving forward and Peter likely getting 11-12 x 8, the money dries up pretty fast.

Fill in your top 4 with short term Tanev/Cole types and i think Soucy may be able to play 20 min. You wait for Willander and the kids to bounce through and get a good ELC contract to contribute. Allvin has done a masterful job rebuilding the D in one year. It’s at least adequate now.

Weegar and Anderson are who I’d keep on Calgary. Trade Hanifin. He’s the worst of the three and he’s LH. Easier to replace. Calgary is in a world of shit right now but their team isn’t this bad. Not sure why Marky melted down.

I think we could still afford a 6.25 mil dman despite having to pay Hronek and Petey.

We would def need to get rid of Garland though and replace him internally.

Markstrom is the furthest thing from the problem with our team, he's been our MVP so far this year despite what teh numbers say. Most goals against have been deflected, through screens and backdoor plays he's had no chance on. I've seen others talk about how his expected goals against is amongst the highest in the league (maybe it was the highest?)...

As for his "meltdown", when he struggled against the OIlers in the playoffs, it was around the time he found out he was going to be a father for the first time, and of course that means last year he was expecting his first child and a new father. It's easy to be less focused when you have things going on in your personal life.

This is just objectively funny "around the time he found he was going to be a father" hahah like if that is too much of a distraction for you, you are not a winner. And I like Marky but I am concerned about him going fwd. He's been struggling for a while now.

 

[Johnsie19]

Weegar isn't available for anything less than an overpayment. He's been fantastic and his contract will age pretty well.

Their aren't many 35-38 yr old dmen who are worth 6.25. Heck there aren't a lot of 35-38 still in the league. 11 to be exact.

Some of the comments in thread is the definition of HF insanity and obsession with youth. He’s a good player, why would anyone trade a first+ to get out of a good player? 6 million will be a bargain when the cap goes up to 100 million in 3 years.

Will the last few years of his contract not look great? Probably. But that’s when you stash players on the third pair and hopefully by then your younger players are able to be top line guys.

The question is would you pay a 1st + to get him not whether Calgary would have to pay to get rid of him.